@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Gape was unlucky and will be available next week. Playing a defender in place of him is a Championship Manager option. Not a real one
Gape will be available... to play Chesham United on Friday night!
Would certainly be an interesting experiment but I don’t think it’s going to happen. Thompson, if fit, is the obvious candidate (or should I say one of the candidates depending on who the pending potential midfield signings turn out to be).
Very promising performance I thought. We were taking the game to them late on and could easily have won, despite being down to 10. Horgan could be an exciting player and considering he's already match sharp, a huge asset in the early games.
No real complaints on the sending off. Unfortunate for Gape, as there was no malicious intent, but if you follow through on a player like that, you're always at risk.
Breakspear was appalling today, as per usual. The silver lining is that he refs in League 1 as a rule. The red card for a follow through was another poor decision from him and the Brentford man was looking for it imo.
Disappointing to lose but would rather points in the league than a run in that cup. We can hold our heads high and go into the campaign with confidence. Thought Freeman's performance has been underrated on here and no mentions of Rocky's saves; nothing changes on the Gasroom:)
@StrongestTeam said:
It's only a definite red if the secondary contact is clearly likely to happen due to the type of tackle or so reckless that anything could happen. It shouldn't matter what or where the contact ends up being.
The sports going to ruin if this is a valid reason for a tackle to be a straight red card.
'Secondary contact'
'Likely to happen'
I am not saying that in current top level football that you are technically wrong but from a sport point of view tackling is becoming impossible. Gape won the ball and the physics of kicking it lifted his studs a bit.
I get what you're saying, I think the intent of the rule is to stop people using "I got the ball first" as an excuse for walloping someone or jumping in two footed in a reckless way. But the rules are never written that way and the vagueness gets exploited. Do we reckon Gape tried to hurt the player or the tackle was made in a way which needs wiping out of the game? Not really and if it was the ref could always have dealt with anyway.
@NorsQuarters said:
and no mentions of Rocky's saves; nothing changes on the Gasroom:)
We go again (though thankfully not in this cup:)
I also thought Rocky had a good game. A couple of decent saves and held 2 or 3 times when he could easily have pushed it out. Plus one or two decent long punts to put us on the counter.
Despite @micra's confidence in Nick's calm under pressure, I didn't for a second feel the same confidence. He looked nervous and kept browing his face.
He should probably ease down on the stepping up, as that's 2 key pens in 2 seasons now
Oh well - it went a heck of a lot better than anyone would have thought at 48mins!
@StrongestTeam said:
It's only a definite red if the secondary contact is clearly likely to happen due to the type of tackle or so reckless that anything could happen. It shouldn't matter what or where the contact ends up being.
The sports going to ruin if this is a valid reason for a tackle to be a straight red card.
'Secondary contact'
'Likely to happen'
I am not saying that in current top level football that you are technically wrong but from a sport point of view tackling is becoming impossible. Gape won the ball and the physics of kicking it lifted his studs a bit.
I get what you're saying, I think the intent of the rule is to stop people using "I got the ball first" as an excuse for walloping someone or jumping in two footed in a reckless way. But the rules are never written that way and the vagueness gets exploited. Do we reckon Gape tried to hurt the player or the tackle was made in a way which needs wiping out of the game? Not really and if it was the ref could always have dealt with anyway.
Yep, some maniac player or fan screaming "I / HE GOT THE BALL" when they skim it and utterly destroy a player was one of the worst aspects of the game.
Yes it's probably gone a bit far the other way now, but very few turn up at football wanting to see meatheads thug it out.
"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play [which is a red card offence]."
"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play [which is a red card offence]."
That isn't what happened.
I'd be interested to know when that was written as a law and also if anyone over the age of 35 thought it was a sending off. I don't ever remember that type of challenge being a straight red in all my years of watching and playing football.
"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play [which is a red card offence]."
That isn't what happened.
I'd be interested to know when that was written as a law and also if anyone over the age of 35 thought it was a sending off. I don't ever remember that type of challenge being a straight red in all my years of watching and playing football.
There's a difference between what we'd like to see happen, and whether we recognise that sort of challenge can be a red these days.
I'm over 35 and i definitely recognised it could be.
Was VAR in action at the game? For me it looked a hell of a lot worse in live action than it did in slower replay.
The first time i saw it and at full speed it looks like a stretched lunge with studs into the players ankle - red card.
With the advantage of slowing it down it looks as if gape is swinging his leg to kick the ball in a more controlled manner than many challenges of a similar nature have been. However, the brentfords players foot was always going to be in the way of natural arch you foot takes when it’s kicking a ball. It certainly doesn’t look any of the things Chairboyscentral mentions from the laws.
But, as I say, seeing it once, in real time, I can absolutely see why the ref brought out the red card.
@TheDancingYak said:
Was VAR in action at the game? For me it looked a hell of a lot worse in live action than it did in slower replay.
The first time i saw it and at full speed it looks like a stretched lunge with studs into the players ankle - red card.
With the advantage of slowing it down it looks as if gape is swinging his leg to kick the ball in a more controlled manner than many challenges of a similar nature have been. However, the brentfords players foot was always going to be in the way of natural arch you foot takes when it’s kicking a ball. It certainly doesn’t look any of the things Chairboyscentral mentions from the laws.
But, as I say, seeing it once, in real time, I can absolutely see why the ref brought out the red card.
I agree with all of this. I'm not sure how you define excessive force, but its hard to see how he could have used less force and still won the ball. And surely you have a right as a midfielder to try to win the ball when nobody is in control of it in the middle of the park?
Disappointing defending for the goal but i thought rocky was solid throughout. Josh Parker did himself no harm at all but I thought Freeman was a tad anonymous during the game and looked a bit 'Southgate' to me when he came up for the pen. I rate Macca but surely Pattison or Thompson are the natural replacements for General Gape. On the whole we looked competitive despite the big step up! Good game.
I thought that was an extremely impressive performance and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Plenty of stand out performances but a special mention has to go to Josh Parker. He looked sharp and strong, and his delivery both from open play and set pieces was wicked. What a bonus he could be this season if he carries on in that vein.
Sadly I thought Nick Freeman was far and away our worst performer on the day. I can’t see him getting too many chances to impress this season, so when he does he really needs to step up. That performance did him no favours at all.
The Gape challenge could have gone either way, but you can’t argue with the red based on the laws of the game. I’d be shocked if we bothered to appeal, there’s no way in the world that would be overturned.
The sending off was harsh but within the letter of the law and so the referee was not wrong, particularly in having to make his decision in real time.
Whilst it was a heavily weakened Brentford side, I thought we played very well and but for their keepers brilliant save from Fred we would have won. Grimmer, Charles, Parker and Horgan were the stand outs for me.
I understand Air Traffic Control at nearby Heathrow grounded all planes as a safety measure prior to Freeman’s Penalty so no harm done. Very good performance by ten men against a good team. Augurs well for the games ahead.
@Wendoverman said:
Disappointing defending for the goal but i thought rocky was solid throughout. Josh Parker did himself no harm at all but I thought Freeman was a tad anonymous during the game and looked a bit 'Southgate' to me when he came up for the pen. I rate Macca but surely Pattison or Thompson are the natural replacements for General Gape. On the whole we looked competitive despite the big step up! Good game.
100% on Freeman. Looked about as nervy as it gets and needs to stop volunteering!
Pattison can't do the Gape role. We're training him up to be the Bloomfield role - storming around in his kind of unusual furthest forward defensive midfielder position.
Bolton aside i'm not sure i've seen him offer too much goal threat, but he definitely seems to be right in Gareth's thoughts from pre-season outings.
@mooneyman said:
The sending off was harsh but within the letter of the law and so the referee was not wrong, particularly in having to make his decision in real time.
Whilst it was a heavily weakened Brentford side, I thought we played very well and but for their keepers brilliant save from Fred we would have won. Grimmer, Charles, Parker and Horgan were the stand outs for me.
The Kashket chance seemed to be totally ignored by Wycombe twitter, when i just had a look then.
Surely a better chance than Fred's as he was clean through on goal, and didn't even attempt to shoot, trying to shimmy into what would have been a tough angle, and hoping he'd get fouled.
It was his own magic that saw him wriggle through though, which was great work.
Could be one of a few players who actually comes into their own more this season than last. I might be wrong, but I think Samuel will have a real battle to stay in the mix.
Comments
I’m hearing that Freeman’s shot actually went in the goal, but at Wembley Stadium.
Gape will be available... to play Chesham United on Friday night!
McCarthy could fill in very nicely for Gape’s 3 match absence. And his height could well help in midfield.
Would certainly be an interesting experiment but I don’t think it’s going to happen. Thompson, if fit, is the obvious candidate (or should I say one of the candidates depending on who the pending potential midfield signings turn out to be).
Well I heard that Freeman had been having penalty taking lessons in the summer from DDH?
Brentford drawn away to Southampton - double disappointment for Dom, sadly.
Very promising performance I thought. We were taking the game to them late on and could easily have won, despite being down to 10. Horgan could be an exciting player and considering he's already match sharp, a huge asset in the early games.
No real complaints on the sending off. Unfortunate for Gape, as there was no malicious intent, but if you follow through on a player like that, you're always at risk.
Breakspear was appalling today, as per usual. The silver lining is that he refs in League 1 as a rule. The red card for a follow through was another poor decision from him and the Brentford man was looking for it imo.
Disappointing to lose but would rather points in the league than a run in that cup. We can hold our heads high and go into the campaign with confidence. Thought Freeman's performance has been underrated on here and no mentions of Rocky's saves; nothing changes on the Gasroom:)
We go again (though thankfully not in this cup:)
I get what you're saying, I think the intent of the rule is to stop people using "I got the ball first" as an excuse for walloping someone or jumping in two footed in a reckless way. But the rules are never written that way and the vagueness gets exploited. Do we reckon Gape tried to hurt the player or the tackle was made in a way which needs wiping out of the game? Not really and if it was the ref could always have dealt with anyway.
I also thought Rocky had a good game. A couple of decent saves and held 2 or 3 times when he could easily have pushed it out. Plus one or two decent long punts to put us on the counter.
Of, and the kit is superb.
Despite @micra's confidence in Nick's calm under pressure, I didn't for a second feel the same confidence. He looked nervous and kept browing his face.
He should probably ease down on the stepping up, as that's 2 key pens in 2 seasons now
Oh well - it went a heck of a lot better than anyone would have thought at 48mins!
Yep, some maniac player or fan screaming "I / HE GOT THE BALL" when they skim it and utterly destroy a player was one of the worst aspects of the game.
Yes it's probably gone a bit far the other way now, but very few turn up at football wanting to see meatheads thug it out.
This is what the laws actually say:
"Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play [which is a red card offence]."
Pleased that Brentford designed their seating purely on the basis that it’d co-ordinate nicely with our snazzy new goalie kit.
That isn't what happened.
I'd be interested to know when that was written as a law and also if anyone over the age of 35 thought it was a sending off. I don't ever remember that type of challenge being a straight red in all my years of watching and playing football.
There's a difference between what we'd like to see happen, and whether we recognise that sort of challenge can be a red these days.
I'm over 35 and i definitely recognised it could be.
People are living in cloud cuckoo land if they think there is any chance of that red card being overturned
I guess by the letter of the law that’s a red then, but it’s not a great time to be a combative central midfielder is it?
Was VAR in action at the game? For me it looked a hell of a lot worse in live action than it did in slower replay.
The first time i saw it and at full speed it looks like a stretched lunge with studs into the players ankle - red card.
With the advantage of slowing it down it looks as if gape is swinging his leg to kick the ball in a more controlled manner than many challenges of a similar nature have been. However, the brentfords players foot was always going to be in the way of natural arch you foot takes when it’s kicking a ball. It certainly doesn’t look any of the things Chairboyscentral mentions from the laws.
But, as I say, seeing it once, in real time, I can absolutely see why the ref brought out the red card.
On the Brentford forum: Ainsworth looks like three mid-life crisis all at once.
I laughed.
I agree with all of this. I'm not sure how you define excessive force, but its hard to see how he could have used less force and still won the ball. And surely you have a right as a midfielder to try to win the ball when nobody is in control of it in the middle of the park?
And for what it's worth, I didnt think Fleetwood's was a red either. Not that I complained at the time of course
Disappointing defending for the goal but i thought rocky was solid throughout. Josh Parker did himself no harm at all but I thought Freeman was a tad anonymous during the game and looked a bit 'Southgate' to me when he came up for the pen. I rate Macca but surely Pattison or Thompson are the natural replacements for General Gape. On the whole we looked competitive despite the big step up! Good game.
Oh and Horgan looked very useful.
I thought that was an extremely impressive performance and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Plenty of stand out performances but a special mention has to go to Josh Parker. He looked sharp and strong, and his delivery both from open play and set pieces was wicked. What a bonus he could be this season if he carries on in that vein.
Sadly I thought Nick Freeman was far and away our worst performer on the day. I can’t see him getting too many chances to impress this season, so when he does he really needs to step up. That performance did him no favours at all.
The Gape challenge could have gone either way, but you can’t argue with the red based on the laws of the game. I’d be shocked if we bothered to appeal, there’s no way in the world that would be overturned.
The sending off was harsh but within the letter of the law and so the referee was not wrong, particularly in having to make his decision in real time.
Whilst it was a heavily weakened Brentford side, I thought we played very well and but for their keepers brilliant save from Fred we would have won. Grimmer, Charles, Parker and Horgan were the stand outs for me.
I understand Air Traffic Control at nearby Heathrow grounded all planes as a safety measure prior to Freeman’s Penalty so no harm done. Very good performance by ten men against a good team. Augurs well for the games ahead.
100% on Freeman. Looked about as nervy as it gets and needs to stop volunteering!
Pattison can't do the Gape role. We're training him up to be the Bloomfield role - storming around in his kind of unusual furthest forward defensive midfielder position.
Bolton aside i'm not sure i've seen him offer too much goal threat, but he definitely seems to be right in Gareth's thoughts from pre-season outings.
The Kashket chance seemed to be totally ignored by Wycombe twitter, when i just had a look then.
Surely a better chance than Fred's as he was clean through on goal, and didn't even attempt to shoot, trying to shimmy into what would have been a tough angle, and hoping he'd get fouled.
It was his own magic that saw him wriggle through though, which was great work.
Could be one of a few players who actually comes into their own more this season than last. I might be wrong, but I think Samuel will have a real battle to stay in the mix.
I thought Charles looked half a yard off the the pace truth be told