I don't know what Johnson saw or didn't see in games against Guernsey and Bristol manor Farm as neither opponent entered our half in either game. I can only assume LJ saw something he didn't particularly like in training or in his attitude. We're very big on players having the right DNA (whatever that means) but I can only imagine something showed up in training that LJ didn't like.
LJ did say there were other offers on the table for him so it could have been something as simple as we offered a 2 year deal and someone else offered a longer one?
Good luck to the fella wherever he ends up and good luck to you next season.
While Pierre has proved himself very capable at League 2 level, and shows the potential of being able to play at a higher level, his game still has room for improvement. It's a big step up to Championship, maybe that step was seen as beyond him at this stage. LJ did say they would keep an eye on him.
If Pierre settles for League 2 I fear he may not develop enough to make that step in the future. I think he needs the challenge of playing at a higher level.
Ever dependable @Jonny_King. - that's the fella ! Only 5'8" so I'm starting to doubt whether he played centrally! I certainly thought so at the time. I remember marvelling at his prowess at such an advanced age and so lacking in height. As I mentioned above, he read the game superbly. I can lay me down and sleep the sleep now. Goodnight to any other night owls still prowling the net.
PS I refer to Frank Sinclair of course.
Poor Pierre. I don't understand why Bristol City publicised they were giving him a trial in the first place - but then to so publicly state that he's not good enough for Championship level a couple of days later... That's a real kick in the teeth. And actually, with my lawyer's hat on, slightly defamatory, given those comments could easily have a significant impact on a free agent's earnings potential, with other clubs either ending interest in him as a result or making a worse offer because he's deemed not capable of cutting it at Championship level.
@aloysius What Lee Johnson is quoted as saying is shown below. I don't think this counts as publically stating that he is not good enough for Championship level or is at all defamatory in any way.
“We haven’t taken it any further, but I have to say he did very, very well.
“He’s an excellent player and an excellent lad, but when we sat down in the cold light of day we looked at the fact we’ve got four centre-halves in Jens (Hegeler), (Hordur) Magnusson, (Aden) Flinty and Bailey Wright.
“Behind that we’ve got three young players who can all play there in Zak Vyner, Taylor Moore and Lloyd Kelly, who have shown up really well in pre-season.
“We just didn’t feel there was a path there to the first team early enough for what he (Pierre) would want.
“But we’ll definitely keep an eye on him, because he’s a great lad who gives you that balance with the left foot and someone is going to get a great signing.”
@bill_stickers there's a difference between, say, a betting website offering commentary and a potential employer publicly stating why a free agent was not good enough to sign. Anyway I'm not a lawyer, so no expert. But it's easy to see how those comments could impact on Pierre's earnings potential. I just hope those other offers are already in writing!
Where did they say he wasn't good enough for Championship level?
Lee Johnson said he had Championship qualities but hasn't been tested at Championship level, and would keep an eye on him for the future. Nothing there that is unfair or defamatory.
As Lee Johnson would be fully aware of his CB options, he would be in a good position to judge what Pierres chances are of breaking though to first team football at Bristol City.
Given that Pierre has other options open to him, he has the opportunity to go where he will continue to develop in first team football and gain more experience. Lee Johnson is actually treating Pierre very fairly, rather than sign him now and let him rot in reserve team football for the next couple of years. Would you prefer him to end up in the same situation as Matt Ingram?
Lee Johnson knew he had seven other options available before taking Pierre on trial. He then decided that Pierre wasn't materially better than at least four and potentially all seven of those options, which is why he didn't sign him.
"We just didn’t feel there was a path there to the first team early enough for what he (Pierre) would want."
That sentence, to me, answers your question @bluenotes.
No it doesn't answer the question, it only says Pierre wouldn't break through quickly at Bristol City, it says nothing about the rest of the Championship.
Surely the whole point of a trial is to establish a verdict. If managers are going to be condemned for not offering a contract at the end of a trial, they won't offer trials. If the verdict was a foregone concussion then there would be no point in having the trial at all.
I don't think there is anything said that could remotely have a negative effect on Pierre's earning potential. On the contrary you could read it that he is hungry to progress and wouldn't be satisfied sitting around taking a decent wage and not playing, which to some employers would be a positive asset.
A more interesting question is how his agent managed to cock it up to the extent that he went somewhere on trial where, on the face of it, it would be very unlikely that he would have ever been taken on on the terms that AP would have wanted.
Possibly (Total BS speculation) AP really does see himself as a championship level CB (I hope so) and Bristol City were the only club at that level willing to look at him and AP himself decided to take a punt on being able to demonstrate that he could make it.
In this case, his other suitors are likely to be the odd League 1 club and maybe a few interested League 2 ones. I think if he does end up playing at League 2 level this year (for us or someone else) he will probably find it a little harder than usual to get motivated, as it will mean that his dreams (which I'm sure he must have) of playing at the higher levels will probably have gone, which would be a real shame.
I don't think that saying he has Championship qualities but no experience at that level amounted to a bad reference. It's a fair assessment. He just didn't get the job. It happens all the time.
Slightly odd thing here is that it was all done so publically. Normally clubs don't comment on their triallists.
otherwise not much to see. A currently unemployed player did an extended interview but didn't quite get the job. Appears he has other offers, including no doubt one from us. Given clubs are getting into their training now, likely he will accept one of them fairly shortly.
Strong likelihood is he is gone, in which case thank him for his efforts, enjoy the memories, wish him well, move on.
I'd say it's about as good a reference as you could hope for from someone who didn't feel able to offer you a job. I'd be pretty pleased if someone described me the way Pierre was described.
I quite like @bookertease 's conjecture about maybe Bristol being the only Championship club in the market and Pierre being willing to take the chance on a trial in the hope of getting a chance to play at that level.
If I were a L1 club, I'd be more rather than less interested in him from reading Johnson's comments. I REALLY hope he takes a job there - would be gutted if he went to another L2 club.
with regards to Pierre, he isn't good enough for Championship Football and Lee Johnson has basically said he has some qualities that are but I can assure you passing to your own player isn't one of his strengths, which is why Antony Stewart is currently the better player overall. I don't particularly want Pierre to go to Luton but I would think it looks tricky for him to come back now considering we have already signed his replacement and also have Muller and WDV on the books.
If the budget is too tight to afford all of them, Muller and/or WDH would be gone, on loan or otherwise, in a heartbeat if Pierre accepted his contract offer from us.
Pierre has clearly told us that while he's not certain who he's going to, it'll be one of the reported 3 or 4 clubs, hence us signing an obvious starter for centre back.
Strange all round from Bristol City, announcing it so publically, then clearly not fancying him but describing him as an "excellent" defender.
But saying he'd in effect be behind their other "excellent" 8 defenders, who are so excellent that he brought another defender triallist in to see if at least one could be replaced.
If Pierre wants to play for WWFC, I have no doubt that GA would welcome him with open arms. Its all judgmental, but on the admittedly few games I have seen both play, AP is comfortably the better player than AS. It will be a big test and a big opportunity for AS to step up this year out of Pierre's shadow.
Who knows what options pierre has. If he considers the best one to be Luton (and realistically they have a better chance than WWFC of offering him a promotion and possibly championship winning team), good luck to him. If he chooses to move on, I don't really care where he goes to be honest.
Frankly if I were a Lg1 manager, I woud be very interested in what my scouts think, my contacts who know people at WWFC think and possibly if I can get an honet answer what GA thinks. I wouldn't be massively interested in the views of a manager who has had him on trial for a week.
@DevC Quite right, Ainsworth would have him back in a flash despite the signing of El Abd.
"The Blues boss added that El-Abd’s arrival does not necessarily spell the end of Aaron Pierre’s time at Adams Park although the defender is now out of contract and free to leave to another club."
“Our offer to Aaron remains on the table and we hope he chooses to return here."
To be fair to Bristol City, Pierre trained had with them for a week without any announcement. He was then picked to play in Guernsey and the trial became public. All in all BC has not made any more noise about it than Tyson having a trial at Wycombe.
Inevitably, the press pay more attention to Championship events than L2.
AS and AP are both great players at our level in my opinion. If AP wanted to stay Gaz would be more than happy...as would most of us. If he goes I would prefer it to be a League 1 club rather than one of the teams who will be chasing us for the title.
@Vital said:
DevC If we want to be contenders I believe we need a better central defender to replace Pierre, at least one quality wide man to replace Thompson, Wood and Weston, and another striker, given the fitness problems with Kashket and Hayes.
I'm with @Vital on this. I'd anticipated that by this stage we would have recruited 3-4 players expected to be in or around the starting 11.
As others have pointed out, we retained plenty of players so avoided the normal high churn of players over the summer. And the players we do have represent look a decent team.
But we look way short in attack without further additions. PCH is injury prone to the point that I can't imagine him starting more than half our league games. We've only had Kashkett for a season and while he was superb, he also seemed injury prone. Hayes is extremely limited on the pitch these days. And Southwell will need to improve a lot to convince me he is up to league 2 football.
Other than that we have Bayo, and we are asking a lot for him to perform as well as he did last season. If he gets injured or is squeezed out of games (either by the opposition tactics, unfavourable refereeing or some other factor) then to my mind the whole game plan falls apart.
We desperately need a second choice target man and another winger. If not we will find ourselves at times playing Southwell, Hayes and Saunders as a front three next season. And I really cannot see that combination producing goals.
Elsewhere, we've plenty of ability in midfield but the defence looks like it will be weaker.
I'm not overly worried yet but I will be if there is no further recruitment before August 5.
Agreed @Glenactico we can't rely on the fitness of PCH and Kashket, nor the goals of Hayes and Southwell. I think we'll sign Tyson, but we can't expect 50 games and 20 goals out of him either. Bayo is the wildcard of course, but he still dosn't seem to have started pre-season yet.
Comments
I don't know what Johnson saw or didn't see in games against Guernsey and Bristol manor Farm as neither opponent entered our half in either game. I can only assume LJ saw something he didn't particularly like in training or in his attitude. We're very big on players having the right DNA (whatever that means) but I can only imagine something showed up in training that LJ didn't like.
LJ did say there were other offers on the table for him so it could have been something as simple as we offered a 2 year deal and someone else offered a longer one?
Good luck to the fella wherever he ends up and good luck to you next season.
Thanks, Cidered.
Don't imagine there were any attitude problems. Maybe just not what you were looking for.
Have a good season.
Now we have to hope he doesn't end up at another L2 club.
While Pierre has proved himself very capable at League 2 level, and shows the potential of being able to play at a higher level, his game still has room for improvement. It's a big step up to Championship, maybe that step was seen as beyond him at this stage. LJ did say they would keep an eye on him.
If Pierre settles for League 2 I fear he may not develop enough to make that step in the future. I think he needs the challenge of playing at a higher level.
Ever dependable @Jonny_King. - that's the fella ! Only 5'8" so I'm starting to doubt whether he played centrally! I certainly thought so at the time. I remember marvelling at his prowess at such an advanced age and so lacking in height. As I mentioned above, he read the game superbly. I can lay me down and sleep the sleep now. Goodnight to any other night owls still prowling the net.
PS I refer to Frank Sinclair of course.
>
That could augur well - provided that Grimsby fan doesn't prove to be unexpectedly perceptive.
Poor Pierre. I don't understand why Bristol City publicised they were giving him a trial in the first place - but then to so publicly state that he's not good enough for Championship level a couple of days later... That's a real kick in the teeth. And actually, with my lawyer's hat on, slightly defamatory, given those comments could easily have a significant impact on a free agent's earnings potential, with other clubs either ending interest in him as a result or making a worse offer because he's deemed not capable of cutting it at Championship level.
@aloysius What Lee Johnson is quoted as saying is shown below. I don't think this counts as publically stating that he is not good enough for Championship level or is at all defamatory in any way.
“We haven’t taken it any further, but I have to say he did very, very well.
“He’s an excellent player and an excellent lad, but when we sat down in the cold light of day we looked at the fact we’ve got four centre-halves in Jens (Hegeler), (Hordur) Magnusson, (Aden) Flinty and Bailey Wright.
“Behind that we’ve got three young players who can all play there in Zak Vyner, Taylor Moore and Lloyd Kelly, who have shown up really well in pre-season.
“We just didn’t feel there was a path there to the first team early enough for what he (Pierre) would want.
“But we’ll definitely keep an eye on him, because he’s a great lad who gives you that balance with the left foot and someone is going to get a great signing.”
You're probably right, though suggesting Pierre is potentially eighth in line to a place in the first team is hardly constructive.
It's not defamatory to have a negative opinion of someone's sporting ability.
@bill_stickers there's a difference between, say, a betting website offering commentary and a potential employer publicly stating why a free agent was not good enough to sign. Anyway I'm not a lawyer, so no expert. But it's easy to see how those comments could impact on Pierre's earnings potential. I just hope those other offers are already in writing!
Where did they say he wasn't good enough for Championship level?
Lee Johnson said he had Championship qualities but hasn't been tested at Championship level, and would keep an eye on him for the future. Nothing there that is unfair or defamatory.
As Lee Johnson would be fully aware of his CB options, he would be in a good position to judge what Pierres chances are of breaking though to first team football at Bristol City.
Given that Pierre has other options open to him, he has the opportunity to go where he will continue to develop in first team football and gain more experience. Lee Johnson is actually treating Pierre very fairly, rather than sign him now and let him rot in reserve team football for the next couple of years. Would you prefer him to end up in the same situation as Matt Ingram?
Lee Johnson knew he had seven other options available before taking Pierre on trial. He then decided that Pierre wasn't materially better than at least four and potentially all seven of those options, which is why he didn't sign him.
"We just didn’t feel there was a path there to the first team early enough for what he (Pierre) would want."
That sentence, to me, answers your question @bluenotes.
No it doesn't answer the question, it only says Pierre wouldn't break through quickly at Bristol City, it says nothing about the rest of the Championship.
Surely the whole point of a trial is to establish a verdict. If managers are going to be condemned for not offering a contract at the end of a trial, they won't offer trials. If the verdict was a foregone concussion then there would be no point in having the trial at all.
I don't think there is anything said that could remotely have a negative effect on Pierre's earning potential. On the contrary you could read it that he is hungry to progress and wouldn't be satisfied sitting around taking a decent wage and not playing, which to some employers would be a positive asset.
A more interesting question is how his agent managed to cock it up to the extent that he went somewhere on trial where, on the face of it, it would be very unlikely that he would have ever been taken on on the terms that AP would have wanted.
Possibly (Total BS speculation) AP really does see himself as a championship level CB (I hope so) and Bristol City were the only club at that level willing to look at him and AP himself decided to take a punt on being able to demonstrate that he could make it.
In this case, his other suitors are likely to be the odd League 1 club and maybe a few interested League 2 ones. I think if he does end up playing at League 2 level this year (for us or someone else) he will probably find it a little harder than usual to get motivated, as it will mean that his dreams (which I'm sure he must have) of playing at the higher levels will probably have gone, which would be a real shame.
But it will be Luton or Oxford. C'est la vie
As Bristol City were never his employer, I don't think they can suffer any consequences by giving him a "bad reference" so to speak.
I would think if he has now played for Grimsby we wouldn't be interested in him anyway.
I don't think that saying he has Championship qualities but no experience at that level amounted to a bad reference. It's a fair assessment. He just didn't get the job. It happens all the time.
Gareth has not taken him away to the training camp so that would suggest we have moved on.
Slightly odd thing here is that it was all done so publically. Normally clubs don't comment on their triallists.
otherwise not much to see. A currently unemployed player did an extended interview but didn't quite get the job. Appears he has other offers, including no doubt one from us. Given clubs are getting into their training now, likely he will accept one of them fairly shortly.
Strong likelihood is he is gone, in which case thank him for his efforts, enjoy the memories, wish him well, move on.
I'd say it's about as good a reference as you could hope for from someone who didn't feel able to offer you a job. I'd be pretty pleased if someone described me the way Pierre was described.
I quite like @bookertease 's conjecture about maybe Bristol being the only Championship club in the market and Pierre being willing to take the chance on a trial in the hope of getting a chance to play at that level.
If I were a L1 club, I'd be more rather than less interested in him from reading Johnson's comments. I REALLY hope he takes a job there - would be gutted if he went to another L2 club.
with regards to Pierre, he isn't good enough for Championship Football and Lee Johnson has basically said he has some qualities that are but I can assure you passing to your own player isn't one of his strengths, which is why Antony Stewart is currently the better player overall. I don't particularly want Pierre to go to Luton but I would think it looks tricky for him to come back now considering we have already signed his replacement and also have Muller and WDV on the books.
If the budget is too tight to afford all of them, Muller and/or WDH would be gone, on loan or otherwise, in a heartbeat if Pierre accepted his contract offer from us.
Pierre has clearly told us that while he's not certain who he's going to, it'll be one of the reported 3 or 4 clubs, hence us signing an obvious starter for centre back.
Strange all round from Bristol City, announcing it so publically, then clearly not fancying him but describing him as an "excellent" defender.
But saying he'd in effect be behind their other "excellent" 8 defenders, who are so excellent that he brought another defender triallist in to see if at least one could be replaced.
Excellent!
If Pierre wants to play for WWFC, I have no doubt that GA would welcome him with open arms. Its all judgmental, but on the admittedly few games I have seen both play, AP is comfortably the better player than AS. It will be a big test and a big opportunity for AS to step up this year out of Pierre's shadow.
Who knows what options pierre has. If he considers the best one to be Luton (and realistically they have a better chance than WWFC of offering him a promotion and possibly championship winning team), good luck to him. If he chooses to move on, I don't really care where he goes to be honest.
Frankly if I were a Lg1 manager, I woud be very interested in what my scouts think, my contacts who know people at WWFC think and possibly if I can get an honet answer what GA thinks. I wouldn't be massively interested in the views of a manager who has had him on trial for a week.
@DevC Quite right, Ainsworth would have him back in a flash despite the signing of El Abd.
"The Blues boss added that El-Abd’s arrival does not necessarily spell the end of Aaron Pierre’s time at Adams Park although the defender is now out of contract and free to leave to another club."
“Our offer to Aaron remains on the table and we hope he chooses to return here."
https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2017/july/first-summer-signing-revealed/
To be fair to Bristol City, Pierre trained had with them for a week without any announcement. He was then picked to play in Guernsey and the trial became public. All in all BC has not made any more noise about it than Tyson having a trial at Wycombe.
Inevitably, the press pay more attention to Championship events than L2.
AS and AP are both great players at our level in my opinion. If AP wanted to stay Gaz would be more than happy...as would most of us. If he goes I would prefer it to be a League 1 club rather than one of the teams who will be chasing us for the title.
I'm with @Vital on this. I'd anticipated that by this stage we would have recruited 3-4 players expected to be in or around the starting 11.
As others have pointed out, we retained plenty of players so avoided the normal high churn of players over the summer. And the players we do have represent look a decent team.
But we look way short in attack without further additions. PCH is injury prone to the point that I can't imagine him starting more than half our league games. We've only had Kashkett for a season and while he was superb, he also seemed injury prone. Hayes is extremely limited on the pitch these days. And Southwell will need to improve a lot to convince me he is up to league 2 football.
Other than that we have Bayo, and we are asking a lot for him to perform as well as he did last season. If he gets injured or is squeezed out of games (either by the opposition tactics, unfavourable refereeing or some other factor) then to my mind the whole game plan falls apart.
We desperately need a second choice target man and another winger. If not we will find ourselves at times playing Southwell, Hayes and Saunders as a front three next season. And I really cannot see that combination producing goals.
Elsewhere, we've plenty of ability in midfield but the defence looks like it will be weaker.
I'm not overly worried yet but I will be if there is no further recruitment before August 5.
Agreed @Glenactico we can't rely on the fitness of PCH and Kashket, nor the goals of Hayes and Southwell. I think we'll sign Tyson, but we can't expect 50 games and 20 goals out of him either. Bayo is the wildcard of course, but he still dosn't seem to have started pre-season yet.