Did Kaikai really get MOTM? Astounding if so. Wonderful goal but absolutely dreadful in the second half. Lost count of the number of times he gave the ball away in the Wigan half.
I also think Wheeler looks completely lost. To me it looked like he was playing RWB as opposed to anywhere in the midfield but he looks like a shadow of the player he was a couple of years back.
Apart from the clear issues in CB, I think our biggest issue this season is the embrassment of riches we have in those forward positions around Vokes. McCleary, Kaikai, Horgan, Hanlan, Mehmeti, Wing - are all fighting for 2-3 places and I don't think GA really knows his best combination or how to rotate them either. It's certainly strength in depth that he's never had to work with before.
Finally, it's been a long time since we've seen the team play with such little belief. Even at 1-0 up I don't think anyone believed we were holding onto that win, and then we absolutely capitulated once the equaliser went in. Must be time for another letter from Rob!
Finally finally, why do we always slump this time of year?
Don’t think Stewart was that bad tonight - couple of great touches but really played into trouble for the third goal by Orbita who i thought defensively had a disappointing game. Our problem was what we did or perhaps what we didn’t do when we had the ball second half. So many passes in the middle of the park going astray so many lost duals for the second ball.
A few folk have lost the run of themselves this evening. I thought we played really well first half and then in the second half a really good side stepped up and outplayed us.
Sometimes you just get beaten by the better side. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have beaten Cheltenham comfortably. If you're going to get annoyed about anything, get annoyed about that.
Some very winnable games coming up and it's all to play for. Stop wetting the bed and saying "something's not right about the place"
The shame of tonight is that we wasted a sublime goal. The touch from Vokes and finish from Kaikai...sublime. That should be on the goal of the season shortlist, and it is a packed list this season!
Unfortunately playing the best team I'm the league has fallen at the end (hopefully) of a massive blip. It's made it seem worse than it actually is.
Bit of perspective please. Wigan won the FA cup whilst we were fighting for league status (I think). Now we are disappointed in losing to them in the same league.
I love this team the same as I did when we were in the top 2. Enjoy these times. We've spent very little money and we are where we are.
Having said that, I've just heard that we bought a fish tank for £8000 at the training ground! Haha
Walking out of the car park I heard an old couple agree that the playoffs are definitely out.
Amazing pessimism.
We were holding Wigan nicely ,leading them even then some shocking defending threw it away.
They're a quality team though and you can't be too upset.
Need to put it right immediately though before the playoffs really do slip away.
@eric_plant said:
Sometimes you just get beaten by the better side. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have beaten Cheltenham comfortably. If you're going to get annoyed about anything, get annoyed about that.
First half we were decent, but second half we might as well have stayed in the dressing room. It's pretty hard to win a game without shooting. Or entering the opposition half. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have been battered by Cheltenham.
@eric_plant said:
Sometimes you just get beaten by the better side. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have beaten Cheltenham comfortably.
I don't buy this at all. We offered absolutely nothing after the first 30 minutes - let's not forget Wigan also hit the post and crossbar. This was not a good performance - the only surprise was that it stayed 1-0 for so long.
@eric_plant said:
A few folk have lost the run of themselves this evening. I thought we played really well first half and then in the second half a really good side stepped up and outplayed us.
Fair enough. I thought second half we caused all our own problems with our approach and errors that followed.
Wigan are a good side but you are ignoring that there were glaring failures from us.
@eric_plant said:
Sometimes you just get beaten by the better side. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have beaten Cheltenham comfortably. If you're going to get annoyed about anything, get annoyed about that.
First half we were decent, but second half we might as well have stayed in the dressing room. It's pretty hard to win a game without shooting. Or entering the opposition half. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have been battered by Cheltenham.
Wigan were superb and completely stopped us playing. They will go up automatically and deservedly so.
Cheltenham are nowhere near that level and could never have controlled the game in the way Wigan did
First half masterstroke by Ainsworth, looked like 4 at the back and a diamond in midfield with Scowen sitting deep and all over Will Keane like a rash. Completely threw them and considering the opposition I think that was our best 45mins this season.
Ainsworth showed last season he is good at the element of surprise.
Unfortunately, they clearly worked out how to deal with this at half time and once they packed the midfield we simply had to react tactically, and we had no idea how to.
I think we have totally lost our way. Classic scenario of a club suddenly having resources to sign more players than actually needed in certain positions and not knowing how to fit them in or who to drop.
Finally, it beggars belief that 3 days ago Stewart was not required yet if he had only played 30 mins (start, middle or end I wouldn’t care which) then we probably would have won against Cheltenham. Three days later he can play 90 mins. 3 days ago we only had 1 defensive midfielder in the matchday squad yet following an injury we find 3 days later that Gape (who 3 days earlier obviously wasn’t even fit enough to make the squad as Scowen was suspended and we only had Thommo involved) is suddenly not only fit enough to make the bench, but he even gets some minutes!! And finally Mehmeti, who was fantastic not so long ago is suddenly cast right adrift minutes wise over the past 4 games.
Completely self imploded and I’m sadly predicting finishing outside the top 8 now.
What a team Wigan are, best side we’ve played all season apart from the possible exception of Rotherham.
They are a Championship side full of quality players.
Complete overreaction tonight, date I say our expectations are a little too much? We were magnificent for 70 minutes and I think Gaz got the tactics spot on.
It was a shame we were so poor for the free kick, first Stockdale not being ready and then defenders reacting slowly.
After that we gave it a way, particularly the third goal.
We were much better with a back four, Vokes was brilliant. Kaikai took his goal very well. Wheeler looked much better today than Saturday. I thought Stewart was very good until the third goal.
Wing looks ok but not sure he adds much other than cover for the rest of the season. He is quite slow as well which leaves us exposed on occasions, would be very happy to be proven wrong but he prefers to play as a 10 and Mehmeti / Kaikai are ahead of him currently.
All in all, I thought we were very organised and on another day would have come away with a tough 1-0 win.
Bring on Accrington Saturday, not all is lost yet!
@Commoner said:
What a team Wigan are, best side we’ve played all season apart from the possible exception of Rotherham.
They are a Championship side full of quality players.
Complete overreaction tonight, date I say our expectations are a little too much? We were magnificent for 70 minutes and I think Gaz got the tactics spot on.
It was a shame we were so poor for the free kick, first Stockdale not being ready and then defenders reacting slowly.
After that we gave it a way, particularly the third goal.
We were much better with a back four, Vokes was brilliant. Kaikai took his goal very well. Wheeler looked much better today than Saturday. I thought Stewart was very good until the third goal.
Wing looks ok but not sure he adds much other than cover for the rest of the season. He is quite slow as well which leaves us exposed on occasions, would be very happy to be proven wrong but he prefers to play as a 10 and Mehmeti / Kaikai are ahead of him currently.
All in all, I thought we were very organised and on another day would have come away with a tough 1-0 win.
Bring on Accrington Saturday, not all is lost yet!
@username123 said:
First half masterstroke by Ainsworth, looked like 4 at the back and a diamond in midfield with Scowen sitting deep and all over Will Keane like a rash. Completely threw them and considering the opposition I think that was our best 45mins this season.
Ainsworth showed last season he is good at the element of surprise.
Unfortunately, they clearly worked out how to deal with this at half time and once they packed the midfield we simply had to react tactically, and we had no idea how to.
I think we have totally lost our way. Classic scenario of a club suddenly having resources to sign more players than actually needed in certain positions and not knowing how to fit them in or who to drop.
Finally, it beggars belief that 3 days ago Stewart was not required yet if he had only played 30 mins (start, middle or end I wouldn’t care which) then we probably would have won against Cheltenham. Three days later he can play 90 mins. 3 days ago we only had 1 defensive midfielder in the matchday squad yet following an injury we find 3 days later that Gape (who 3 days earlier obviously wasn’t even fit enough to make the squad as Scowen was suspended and we only had Thommo involved) is suddenly not only fit enough to make the bench, but he even gets some minutes!! And finally Mehmeti, who was fantastic not so long ago is suddenly cast right adrift minutes wise over the past 4 games.
Completely self imploded and I’m sadly predicting finishing outside the top 8 now.
Mehmeti being the only first-team regular to feature in the B&B feels increasingly strange
Wigan were one of the best sides I’ve seen in a long time. We were poor in the second half but sometimes you just have to accept that a better team can make you look that way, and we couldn’t find a way to play.
All of this talk of things not seeming right feels like a complete over-reaction to me. A couple of positive results and the momentum changes and we look at things differently. We have to be very careful that a few people’s opinions don’t become facts
@ReturnToSenda you seem to be trying to read too much into everything at the minute. Which is unusual for you, is everything ok?
You seem to be fixated on half the team being left out as strange and that there is clearly something going on behind the scenes at the club. I’m not sure there’s really too much going on.
There’s not always a conspiracy to be had!!!
Walking down Hillbottom Road at the end there’s 5 Wycombe lads bouncing around… “what did you get chucked out for then?” “Standing on yellow paint! What did you get chucked out for?” “Trying to get into the away end”. Absolute belters. Never have I felt so much like tripping someone’s back foot as they approached a massive pot hole.
@Commoner said: @ReturnToSenda you seem to be trying to read too much into everything at the minute. Which is unusual for you, is everything ok?
You seem to be fixated on half the team being left out as strange and that there is clearly something going on behind the scenes at the club. I’m not sure there’s really too much going on.
There’s not always a conspiracy to be had!!!
I'm fine, and I don't feel anything other than a certain 'off-ness' about the place - and I know I'm far from alone. Just a feeling, could be wrong ?
@Last_Quarter said:
Did Kaikai really get MOTM? Astounding if so. Wonderful goal but absolutely dreadful in the second half. Lost count of the number of times he gave the ball away in the Wigan half.
I also think Wheeler looks completely lost. To me it looked like he was playing RWB as opposed to anywhere in the midfield but he looks like a shadow of the player he was a couple of years back.
Apart from the clear issues in CB, I think our biggest issue this season is the embrassment of riches we have in those forward positions around Vokes. McCleary, Kaikai, Horgan, Hanlan, Mehmeti, Wing - are all fighting for 2-3 places and I don't think GA really knows his best combination or how to rotate them either. It's certainly strength in depth that he's never had to work with before.
Finally, it's been a long time since we've seen the team play with such little belief. Even at 1-0 up I don't think anyone believed we were holding onto that win, and then we absolutely capitulated once the equaliser went in. Must be time for another letter from Rob!
Finally finally, why do we always slump this time of year?
Good post. The imbalance of the squad has bitten us. A dearth of options at centre half yet flooded with attacking mids and wingers. We really need to look at what's needed positionally, not individually, in the summer.
You can all bounce the reasons for the loss around and blame any thing, but it’s been my fault. I had family things on until we were 3-1 up Saturday and we threw it away.
I was having dinner until half time today. Both times I switch on we conceded goals.
I think that Wigan side would finish about 14-18th in the Championship, even above Rotherham.
I agree with Gaz - the damage was done in the preceding fixtures. Tonight wouldn't have been that frustrating if the preceding games fell in our favour.
Not sure what Wing and Wheeler have done this season to warrant so much game time ahead of likes of Mehmeti. Mehmeti has proven in a few games, especially Charlton away, that he is far superior to Wheeler in a middle 2 next to Thommo/Scowen.
The back four were appalling at different occasions today. Not all four of them for all of the game, but each had a comedy of errors in different phases of play.
If we can fix this blip, we've got only two of the top 10 remaining this season, both of which at home. We can make the playoffs if we pick things back up. For what it's worth, I think we will make them. Just.
That was a very strong Wigan side to be fair. They looked a cut above most sides we played in the Championship last season, let alone anything in League 1. What was frustrating from our point of view was the very soft nature of all 3 goals we conceded. We're do much better than that.
Still well placed, we just need to get a win and some momentum going again. I don't see that there's anything wrong, just a team going through a bad spell and short of confidence as a result. It happens to practically all sides at some point during a season.
@Commoner said: @ReturnToSenda you seem to be trying to read too much into everything at the minute. Which is unusual for you, is everything ok?
You seem to be fixated on half the team being left out as strange and that there is clearly something going on behind the scenes at the club. I’m not sure there’s really too much going on.
There’s not always a conspiracy to be had!!!
I'm fine, and I don't feel anything other than a certain 'off-ness' about the place - and I know I'm far from alone. Just a feeling, could be wrong ?
Fair enough, you carry a great weight with your thoughts / analysis on here. Due to that I am just mindful your worries could be treated as facts the more you make these statements of things “being off” - I’d love to see your more positive thoughts return!
@Commoner said: @ReturnToSenda you seem to be trying to read too much into everything at the minute. Which is unusual for you, is everything ok?
You seem to be fixated on half the team being left out as strange and that there is clearly something going on behind the scenes at the club. I’m not sure there’s really too much going on.
There’s not always a conspiracy to be had!!!
I'm fine, and I don't feel anything other than a certain 'off-ness' about the place - and I know I'm far from alone. Just a feeling, could be wrong ?
Fair enough, you carry a great weight with your thoughts / analysis on here. Due to that I am just mindful your worries could be treated as facts the more you make these statements of things “being off” - I’d love to see your more positive thoughts return!
Forino's continued development and Kaikai's 'arrival' are big positives!
Mehmeti being the only first-team regular to feature in the B&B feels increasingly strange
Mehmeti is very much one of those players that can really change a game, especially when our, ahem, “physical” style is not working.
I feel like Wing’s arrival has pushed Mehmeti down the pecking order a notch - they are both competing for that attacking centre mid role, even though they both approach it differently. But to me Wing's seemed decent, but not necessarily “keeping Mehmeti out of the team” decent.
@frequentstander said:
We can make the playoffs if we pick things back up. For what it's worth, I think we will make them. Just.
Right now I’m terrified of what would happen to us if we made the playoffs.
Why? Plymouth, MK, Sunderland, Oxford, Sheff Wed all likely to be in the mix with us. None of these sides 'worry' me. We've outplayed all of them for different phases across the league this season.
We haven't outplayed Wigan. We haven't outplayed Rotherham. And that's fine. But the five above are not going to dismantle us unless we play very badly.
Wigan were seriously good. Controlled possession completely and had some excellent options all over the pitch. Better than several teams we faced last season.
I thought we actually played pretty well. The tactics first half were exceptional and we looked the better team for 30 mins or so.
I’m not really too annoyed at tonight’s result. The problem is the crap results and leads thrown away against Cheltenham and Morecambe in particular.
Vokes I thought was fantastic again tonight. Great link up play and some good defensive work too. KaiKai also looked dangerous but we ran out of steam second half - couldn’t make the ball stick up top despite a few opportunities where we might have taken the pressure off.
Good performance from Scowen too I thought. What a difference he makes in the middle.
Comments
Yeah, Stewart was anonymous at best tonight. Really, really disappointed.
Did Kaikai really get MOTM? Astounding if so. Wonderful goal but absolutely dreadful in the second half. Lost count of the number of times he gave the ball away in the Wigan half.
I also think Wheeler looks completely lost. To me it looked like he was playing RWB as opposed to anywhere in the midfield but he looks like a shadow of the player he was a couple of years back.
Apart from the clear issues in CB, I think our biggest issue this season is the embrassment of riches we have in those forward positions around Vokes. McCleary, Kaikai, Horgan, Hanlan, Mehmeti, Wing - are all fighting for 2-3 places and I don't think GA really knows his best combination or how to rotate them either. It's certainly strength in depth that he's never had to work with before.
Finally, it's been a long time since we've seen the team play with such little belief. Even at 1-0 up I don't think anyone believed we were holding onto that win, and then we absolutely capitulated once the equaliser went in. Must be time for another letter from Rob!
Finally finally, why do we always slump this time of year?
Don’t think Stewart was that bad tonight - couple of great touches but really played into trouble for the third goal by Orbita who i thought defensively had a disappointing game. Our problem was what we did or perhaps what we didn’t do when we had the ball second half. So many passes in the middle of the park going astray so many lost duals for the second ball.
A few folk have lost the run of themselves this evening. I thought we played really well first half and then in the second half a really good side stepped up and outplayed us.
Sometimes you just get beaten by the better side. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have beaten Cheltenham comfortably. If you're going to get annoyed about anything, get annoyed about that.
Some very winnable games coming up and it's all to play for. Stop wetting the bed and saying "something's not right about the place"
The shame of tonight is that we wasted a sublime goal. The touch from Vokes and finish from Kaikai...sublime. That should be on the goal of the season shortlist, and it is a packed list this season!
Unfortunately playing the best team I'm the league has fallen at the end (hopefully) of a massive blip. It's made it seem worse than it actually is.
Bit of perspective please. Wigan won the FA cup whilst we were fighting for league status (I think). Now we are disappointed in losing to them in the same league.
I love this team the same as I did when we were in the top 2. Enjoy these times. We've spent very little money and we are where we are.
Having said that, I've just heard that we bought a fish tank for £8000 at the training ground! Haha
Walking out of the car park I heard an old couple agree that the playoffs are definitely out.
Amazing pessimism.
We were holding Wigan nicely ,leading them even then some shocking defending threw it away.
They're a quality team though and you can't be too upset.
Need to put it right immediately though before the playoffs really do slip away.
First half we were decent, but second half we might as well have stayed in the dressing room. It's pretty hard to win a game without shooting. Or entering the opposition half. If we'd played like that on Saturday we'd have been battered by Cheltenham.
I don't buy this at all. We offered absolutely nothing after the first 30 minutes - let's not forget Wigan also hit the post and crossbar. This was not a good performance - the only surprise was that it stayed 1-0 for so long.
Fair enough. I thought second half we caused all our own problems with our approach and errors that followed.
Wigan are a good side but you are ignoring that there were glaring failures from us.
Wigan were superb and completely stopped us playing. They will go up automatically and deservedly so.
Cheltenham are nowhere near that level and could never have controlled the game in the way Wigan did
First half masterstroke by Ainsworth, looked like 4 at the back and a diamond in midfield with Scowen sitting deep and all over Will Keane like a rash. Completely threw them and considering the opposition I think that was our best 45mins this season.
Ainsworth showed last season he is good at the element of surprise.
Unfortunately, they clearly worked out how to deal with this at half time and once they packed the midfield we simply had to react tactically, and we had no idea how to.
I think we have totally lost our way. Classic scenario of a club suddenly having resources to sign more players than actually needed in certain positions and not knowing how to fit them in or who to drop.
Finally, it beggars belief that 3 days ago Stewart was not required yet if he had only played 30 mins (start, middle or end I wouldn’t care which) then we probably would have won against Cheltenham. Three days later he can play 90 mins. 3 days ago we only had 1 defensive midfielder in the matchday squad yet following an injury we find 3 days later that Gape (who 3 days earlier obviously wasn’t even fit enough to make the squad as Scowen was suspended and we only had Thommo involved) is suddenly not only fit enough to make the bench, but he even gets some minutes!! And finally Mehmeti, who was fantastic not so long ago is suddenly cast right adrift minutes wise over the past 4 games.
Completely self imploded and I’m sadly predicting finishing outside the top 8 now.
What a team Wigan are, best side we’ve played all season apart from the possible exception of Rotherham.
They are a Championship side full of quality players.
Complete overreaction tonight, date I say our expectations are a little too much? We were magnificent for 70 minutes and I think Gaz got the tactics spot on.
It was a shame we were so poor for the free kick, first Stockdale not being ready and then defenders reacting slowly.
After that we gave it a way, particularly the third goal.
We were much better with a back four, Vokes was brilliant. Kaikai took his goal very well. Wheeler looked much better today than Saturday. I thought Stewart was very good until the third goal.
Wing looks ok but not sure he adds much other than cover for the rest of the season. He is quite slow as well which leaves us exposed on occasions, would be very happy to be proven wrong but he prefers to play as a 10 and Mehmeti / Kaikai are ahead of him currently.
All in all, I thought we were very organised and on another day would have come away with a tough 1-0 win.
Bring on Accrington Saturday, not all is lost yet!
Great post
Mehmeti being the only first-team regular to feature in the B&B feels increasingly strange
POTD @Commoner
Wigan were one of the best sides I’ve seen in a long time. We were poor in the second half but sometimes you just have to accept that a better team can make you look that way, and we couldn’t find a way to play.
All of this talk of things not seeming right feels like a complete over-reaction to me. A couple of positive results and the momentum changes and we look at things differently. We have to be very careful that a few people’s opinions don’t become facts
players who we will lose of we don't get promoted
Stewart
Taf
Wing
Vokes
@ReturnToSenda you seem to be trying to read too much into everything at the minute. Which is unusual for you, is everything ok?
You seem to be fixated on half the team being left out as strange and that there is clearly something going on behind the scenes at the club. I’m not sure there’s really too much going on.
There’s not always a conspiracy to be had!!!
Walking down Hillbottom Road at the end there’s 5 Wycombe lads bouncing around… “what did you get chucked out for then?” “Standing on yellow paint! What did you get chucked out for?” “Trying to get into the away end”. Absolute belters. Never have I felt so much like tripping someone’s back foot as they approached a massive pot hole.
I'm fine, and I don't feel anything other than a certain 'off-ness' about the place - and I know I'm far from alone. Just a feeling, could be wrong ?
Good post. The imbalance of the squad has bitten us. A dearth of options at centre half yet flooded with attacking mids and wingers. We really need to look at what's needed positionally, not individually, in the summer.
You can all bounce the reasons for the loss around and blame any thing, but it’s been my fault. I had family things on until we were 3-1 up Saturday and we threw it away.
I was having dinner until half time today. Both times I switch on we conceded goals.
QED.
It’s my fault guys, I’ll take this one.
I think that Wigan side would finish about 14-18th in the Championship, even above Rotherham.
I agree with Gaz - the damage was done in the preceding fixtures. Tonight wouldn't have been that frustrating if the preceding games fell in our favour.
Not sure what Wing and Wheeler have done this season to warrant so much game time ahead of likes of Mehmeti. Mehmeti has proven in a few games, especially Charlton away, that he is far superior to Wheeler in a middle 2 next to Thommo/Scowen.
The back four were appalling at different occasions today. Not all four of them for all of the game, but each had a comedy of errors in different phases of play.
If we can fix this blip, we've got only two of the top 10 remaining this season, both of which at home. We can make the playoffs if we pick things back up. For what it's worth, I think we will make them. Just.
That was a very strong Wigan side to be fair. They looked a cut above most sides we played in the Championship last season, let alone anything in League 1. What was frustrating from our point of view was the very soft nature of all 3 goals we conceded. We're do much better than that.
Still well placed, we just need to get a win and some momentum going again. I don't see that there's anything wrong, just a team going through a bad spell and short of confidence as a result. It happens to practically all sides at some point during a season.
Fair enough, you carry a great weight with your thoughts / analysis on here. Due to that I am just mindful your worries could be treated as facts the more you make these statements of things “being off” - I’d love to see your more positive thoughts return!
Right now I’m terrified of what would happen to us if we made the playoffs.
Forino's continued development and Kaikai's 'arrival' are big positives!
>
Mehmeti is very much one of those players that can really change a game, especially when our, ahem, “physical” style is not working.
I feel like Wing’s arrival has pushed Mehmeti down the pecking order a notch - they are both competing for that attacking centre mid role, even though they both approach it differently. But to me Wing's seemed decent, but not necessarily “keeping Mehmeti out of the team” decent.
Why? Plymouth, MK, Sunderland, Oxford, Sheff Wed all likely to be in the mix with us. None of these sides 'worry' me. We've outplayed all of them for different phases across the league this season.
We haven't outplayed Wigan. We haven't outplayed Rotherham. And that's fine. But the five above are not going to dismantle us unless we play very badly.
Wigan were seriously good. Controlled possession completely and had some excellent options all over the pitch. Better than several teams we faced last season.
I thought we actually played pretty well. The tactics first half were exceptional and we looked the better team for 30 mins or so.
I’m not really too annoyed at tonight’s result. The problem is the crap results and leads thrown away against Cheltenham and Morecambe in particular.
Vokes I thought was fantastic again tonight. Great link up play and some good defensive work too. KaiKai also looked dangerous but we ran out of steam second half - couldn’t make the ball stick up top despite a few opportunities where we might have taken the pressure off.
Good performance from Scowen too I thought. What a difference he makes in the middle.
Sadly we were just beaten by the better team.