By recruitment model do you mean the "development squad" - signing up young players that havent quite made it elsewhere, polish them up and sell them on and using profits from that to offset the revenue gap from (presumably) our having lower attendences than other championship clubs?
@DevC said:
By recruitment model do you mean the "development squad" - signing up young players that havent quite made it elsewhere, polish them up and sell them on and using profits from that to offset the revenue gap from (presumably) our having lower attendences than other championship clubs?
That but also 'buy low, sell high' in general (whether a player is signed as a 'development' player or an immediate first-tamer). Uche is an example to an extent - Mehmeti could be a bigger one, although I'm less sure of that at the moment.
Glad to see cooler heads prevailing this morning. It’s absurd to be so worked up about being just outside the play offs. We’re genuinely having one of our best ever seasons.
As for something being ‘off,’ we haven’t won since the Dead Sea had chest pains, I’m glad it’s not all sunshine and ice cream at the moment.
@floyd said:
Glad to see cooler heads prevailing this morning. It’s absurd to be so worked up about being just outside the play offs. We’re genuinely having one of our best ever seasons.
As for something being ‘off,’ we haven’t won since the Dead Sea had chest pains, I’m glad it’s not all sunshine and ice cream at the moment.
Post game is always full of over the top reactions, that in speech get lost in the ethos, but on a written forum can look even sillier.
I wonder if the old couple I passed in the carpark stating "that's the playoffs gone",might today be looking at the table, that shows us one point off, with 13 games to go and might just think they were ever so slightly hasty in that.
@DevC said:
By recruitment model do you mean the "development squad" - signing up young players that havent quite made it elsewhere, polish them up and sell them on and using profits from that to offset the revenue gap from (presumably) our having lower attendences than other championship clubs?
That but also 'buy low, sell high' in general (whether a player is signed as a 'development' player or an immediate first-tamer). Uche is an example to an extent - Mehmeti could be a bigger one, although I'm less sure of that at the moment.
I understand obviously that is an aim. But then surely every club aspires to do that. What do you see as our competitive advantage such that we can do it so much better than say Millwall
@ReturnToSenda said:
That said, we could well get back to the Championship in the next couple of seasons and do a Rotherham for a few years (not sure how much fun that is, though).
@Malone said:
Had to check the stats, but the ref did actually book one of their players.
It felt the classic ref has forgotten his cards job. While not any sort of dirty game there could/should have been the usual sprinkling of bookings. Not least the Stockdale scuffle and then scowen being utterly brutalised late on, with an aerial challenge about 30secs too late.
I thought the referee was very good until the final 10 mins or so, at which point he seemed to stop caring. The time wasting was (yet again) an absolute piss take, which the officials (yet again) allowed to pass without any intervention whatsoever. He also failed to book a clear foul on Scowen when brought down breaking through the back line. And then allowed their player to headbutt Scowen square in the face 5 mins after the ball had gone and only gave a free kick.
None of this would have changed the result of course. But the ineptitude of the refereeing does at times drive me to absolute despair.
Does anyone know the reason for the diversion after the game? I was forced to turn right up Lane End Road, which isn’t the most direct route to Hertfordshire! Traffic wasn’t being allowed via the Hour Glass.
Matt Benham at Brentford has invested over £130M of his own money in taking Brentford up the leagues. The Couhigs have invested £2-3M perhaps.
I really don't think it's comparable.
Rotherham would be very similar - not sure how much money their owner has put in, if anything. They must have a similar average gate down the years to us but they are about 5 years ahead of us on their curve.
Plymouth owner has put £15M in so far, and they are one point ahead of us.
Our average attendance is 17th in League One.
Currently Bournemouth are bottom of the average in the Championship with 9756, then Luton on 9819. So I really don't think we're on Luton's level yet, perhaps one day.
Based on history and recent history at that then I'd definitely put the following clubs above us in this league: Rotherham, Wigan, Sunderland, Sheff Weds, Ipswich, Bolton, Portsmouth, Charlton.
Given the money spent at MK Dons, Oxford and Plymouth you could also argue they are ahead of us.
As much as we had some money in the bank and a season in the Championship, we are realistically a club who is about 10th in this league and with a good season could challenge the play-offs.
I love the statement of intent from Rob Couhig, and it is definitely something to aim for but I won't be too disappointed if we are nestled in the top 10 come the end of the season. Play-offs would be superb.
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
I am a relative newcomer so do not have the Glory years of non-league, MON and FA Cup runs to wax lyrical about, but I've seen a bit of Gormania, a bit more Lambert, one and a half seasons of Taylor, Half a season of Waddock...before a little gap in attendance as there was not enough money resting in my account...and back as a ST for the Torquay season and GA's tenure to date. All I can say is the improvement in fortunes, high points and players have been incredible, especially over the last three seasons. In my opinion we were playing well enough with a good side to have made the Covid play-offs, PPG or not, the Championship was welcome but something I could not have predicted during the L2 years, and now we are again, playing well (mostly) and still in with a chance of the L1 playoffs. I know football is a mess of high drama and low tragedy, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some of the hyperbole on match day threads during and post a match gets a bit silly as if people have never seen Wycombe play or heard about the game of football before! (And I've blocked a few of the usual one line only post when we are losing dimwits!) I know I am one of the rosy coloured specs folks, but I'm enjoying a reasonably well-run, seemingly solvent League One team challenging for promotion...and will continue to do so, if that's the way it has to be...without insulting or abusing our existing players, demanding major outlay on The Player who will ensure survival or promotion, or calling for the head of one of our best managers (certainly in my years in leafy Bucks)!
@DevC said:
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
@DevC said:
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort Eric. We should of course aim to sign the best possible players and team we can afford and win every game on the way to ultimate Champions League glory. Just as I aim to win the lottery every week.
I don't expect to win the lottery every week though much as I would like to just as I don't expect WWFC to be a sustainable Championship team much as I would like them to be. I was curious why @ReturnToSenda is confident that is achievable. I think it is unlikely
@Glenactico I think Stocko gesturing to the terrace not to give the ball back in first half extra time while the referee watched him might have led to the officials to be a bit more lenient towards Wigan time wasting once they were in the lead!
Some pondering on last night.
I never expected us to go up. We have performed better than I dreamed early season so hope had crept in - damn you hope. Did we have a chance to strengthen better in January and really give it a go? Maybe. Should we? Maybe
Looking forward how sustainable is our current budget for 2 or 3 more years in league 1. Who can we afford to keep who will have to go? Was this a 1 year roll of the dice budget or a sustainable one?
GA seems to be struggling with his best team at the moment and when he gets stability has had unlucky injuries or dips in form.
Like most I don’t understand how we go from playing slick passing football to the worst ugly hoofball in the same half. How can this be fixed? It seems we are so close but at times so far from being a top 1,2 or 3 team.
Not the result we wanted. We go again. Never too high ….
Blah blah blah
There's a significant difference between us and club's like Coventry, Luton etc. They have been in the first division/premiership before. We have not and the Championship (old div 2) is the highest r have been. We are building, on an upward trajectory, it may take a little time but will be worth it in the end.
@DevC said:
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort Eric. We should of course aim to sign the best possible players and team we can afford and win every game on the way to ultimate Champions League glory. Just as I aim to win the lottery every week.
I don't expect to win the lottery every week though much as I would like to just as I don't expect WWFC to be a sustainable Championship team much as I would like them to be. I was curious why @ReturnToSenda is confident that is achievable. I think it is unlikely
I agree, it does seem unlikely. Of clubs of our 'size' (which I know is very subjective) and budget range the only ones who have achieved Championship status for more than a couple of years over my 30 years of watching football are Crewe and Walsall, and both of them have since sunk back into the League One / League Two world.
Of the teams promoted to the League for the first time since automatic promotion was introduced, only three (including us) have been promoted to the Championship, and only Burton lasted more than a season.
Wimbledon and Wigan seem to me to be the only teams who have joined the League in the last 50 years who have established themselves for any length of time in the top two tiers. Wigan required more money than we will ever have to do it, and Wimbledon thrived on the general football chaos of the 1980s (before disappearing in their own chaos).
It would be marvellous if we did became a regular Championship club, but anyone 'expecting' it is likely to be disappointed.
@mwite said:
There's a significant difference between us and club's like Coventry, Luton etc. They have been in the first division/premiership before. We have not and the Championship (old div 2) is the highest r have been. We are building, on an upward trajectory, it may take a little time but will be worth it in the end.
@DevC said:
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort Eric. We should of course aim to sign the best possible players and team we can afford and win every game on the way to ultimate Champions League glory. Just as I aim to win the lottery every week.
I don't expect to win the lottery every week though much as I would like to just as I don't expect WWFC to be a sustainable Championship team much as I would like them to be. I was curious why @ReturnToSenda is confident that is achievable. I think it is unlikely
I agree, it does seem unlikely. Of clubs of our 'size' (which I know is very subjective) and budget range the only ones who have achieved Championship status for more than a couple of years over my 30 years of watching football are Crewe and Walsall, and both of them have since sunk back into the League One / League Two world.
Of the teams promoted to the League for the first time since automatic promotion was introduced, only three (including us) have been promoted to the Championship, and only Burton lasted more than a season.
Wimbledon and Wigan seem to me to be the only teams who have joined the League in the last 50 years who have established themselves for any length of time in the top two tiers. Wigan required more money than we will ever have to do it, and Wimbledon thrived on the general football chaos of the 1980s (before disappearing in their own chaos).
It would be marvellous if we did became a regular Championship club, but anyone 'expecting' it is likely to be disappointed.
Sorry to be a pedant, I count 4 Championship teams who were automatically promoted from non league:
@DevC said:
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort Eric. We should of course aim to sign the best possible players and team we can afford and win every game on the way to ultimate Champions League glory. Just as I aim to win the lottery every week.
I don't expect to win the lottery every week though much as I would like to just as I don't expect WWFC to be a sustainable Championship team much as I would like them to be. I was curious why @ReturnToSenda is confident that is achievable. I think it is unlikely
I agree, it does seem unlikely. Of clubs of our 'size' (which I know is very subjective) and budget range the only ones who have achieved Championship status for more than a couple of years over my 30 years of watching football are Crewe and Walsall, and both of them have since sunk back into the League One / League Two world.
Of the teams promoted to the League for the first time since automatic promotion was introduced, only three (including us) have been promoted to the Championship, and only Burton lasted more than a season.
Wimbledon and Wigan seem to me to be the only teams who have joined the League in the last 50 years who have established themselves for any length of time in the top two tiers. Wigan required more money than we will ever have to do it, and Wimbledon thrived on the general football chaos of the 1980s (before disappearing in their own chaos).
It would be marvellous if we did became a regular Championship club, but anyone 'expecting' it is likely to be disappointed.
Sorry to be a pedant, I count 4 Championship teams who were automatically promoted from non league:
Us, Burton, Yeovil, Colchester.
Colchester weren't promoted to the league for the first time...
@DevC said:
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort Eric. We should of course aim to sign the best possible players and team we can afford and win every game on the way to ultimate Champions League glory. Just as I aim to win the lottery every week.
I don't expect to win the lottery every week though much as I would like to just as I don't expect WWFC to be a sustainable Championship team much as I would like them to be. I was curious why @ReturnToSenda is confident that is achievable. I think it is unlikely
I agree, it does seem unlikely. Of clubs of our 'size' (which I know is very subjective) and budget range the only ones who have achieved Championship status for more than a couple of years over my 30 years of watching football are Crewe and Walsall, and both of them have since sunk back into the League One / League Two world.
Of the teams promoted to the League for the first time since automatic promotion was introduced, only three (including us) have been promoted to the Championship, and only Burton lasted more than a season.
Wimbledon and Wigan seem to me to be the only teams who have joined the League in the last 50 years who have established themselves for any length of time in the top two tiers. Wigan required more money than we will ever have to do it, and Wimbledon thrived on the general football chaos of the 1980s (before disappearing in their own chaos).
It would be marvellous if we did became a regular Championship club, but anyone 'expecting' it is likely to be disappointed.
Sorry to be a pedant, I count 4 Championship teams who were automatically promoted from non league:
Us, Burton, Yeovil, Colchester.
Colchester weren't promoted to the league for the first time...
Loving the pedant off.
But of course what has happened before is irrelevant to what happens going forward surely?
It all depends who picks us up after Rob C has done his thing.
Comments
By recruitment model do you mean the "development squad" - signing up young players that havent quite made it elsewhere, polish them up and sell them on and using profits from that to offset the revenue gap from (presumably) our having lower attendences than other championship clubs?
That but also 'buy low, sell high' in general (whether a player is signed as a 'development' player or an immediate first-tamer). Uche is an example to an extent - Mehmeti could be a bigger one, although I'm less sure of that at the moment.
Glad to see cooler heads prevailing this morning. It’s absurd to be so worked up about being just outside the play offs. We’re genuinely having one of our best ever seasons.
As for something being ‘off,’ we haven’t won since the Dead Sea had chest pains, I’m glad it’s not all sunshine and ice cream at the moment.
Maybe we should bring back the old 5 year plan?
And share it with the fans.
Post game is always full of over the top reactions, that in speech get lost in the ethos, but on a written forum can look even sillier.
I wonder if the old couple I passed in the carpark stating "that's the playoffs gone",might today be looking at the table, that shows us one point off, with 13 games to go and might just think they were ever so slightly hasty in that.
I understand obviously that is an aim. But then surely every club aspires to do that. What do you see as our competitive advantage such that we can do it so much better than say Millwall
A promotion every two years? Sign me up!
I thought the referee was very good until the final 10 mins or so, at which point he seemed to stop caring. The time wasting was (yet again) an absolute piss take, which the officials (yet again) allowed to pass without any intervention whatsoever. He also failed to book a clear foul on Scowen when brought down breaking through the back line. And then allowed their player to headbutt Scowen square in the face 5 mins after the ball had gone and only gave a free kick.
None of this would have changed the result of course. But the ineptitude of the refereeing does at times drive me to absolute despair.
Does anyone know the reason for the diversion after the game? I was forced to turn right up Lane End Road, which isn’t the most direct route to Hertfordshire! Traffic wasn’t being allowed via the Hour Glass.
Oh no, did something happen at Tesco Express again?
Walked past it about 10pm and it was fine.
Matt Benham at Brentford has invested over £130M of his own money in taking Brentford up the leagues. The Couhigs have invested £2-3M perhaps.
I really don't think it's comparable.
Rotherham would be very similar - not sure how much money their owner has put in, if anything. They must have a similar average gate down the years to us but they are about 5 years ahead of us on their curve.
Plymouth owner has put £15M in so far, and they are one point ahead of us.
Our average attendance is 17th in League One.
Currently Bournemouth are bottom of the average in the Championship with 9756, then Luton on 9819. So I really don't think we're on Luton's level yet, perhaps one day.
Based on history and recent history at that then I'd definitely put the following clubs above us in this league: Rotherham, Wigan, Sunderland, Sheff Weds, Ipswich, Bolton, Portsmouth, Charlton.
Given the money spent at MK Dons, Oxford and Plymouth you could also argue they are ahead of us.
As much as we had some money in the bank and a season in the Championship, we are realistically a club who is about 10th in this league and with a good season could challenge the play-offs.
I love the statement of intent from Rob Couhig, and it is definitely something to aim for but I won't be too disappointed if we are nestled in the top 10 come the end of the season. Play-offs would be superb.
How much of the Brentford money was on the new stadium though?
I only referred to Brentford as they're the best example of Moneyball in football
I'm still chuckling about things "getting lost in the ethos..." (especially within a sentence talking about things looking silly on a written forum).
So @ReturnToSenda is it "moneyball" that you believe will give us the competitive advantage to allow us to establish ourselves in the Championship against "bigger clubs".
Just a very quick comparison of our 1st half v 2nd half performance this season:
1st half
26 GF
17 GA
233 shots
184 shots faced
2nd half
27 GF
26 GA
246 shots
249 shots faced
SoccerSTATS has all sorts of interesting stuff on this kind of thing
I am a relative newcomer so do not have the Glory years of non-league, MON and FA Cup runs to wax lyrical about, but I've seen a bit of Gormania, a bit more Lambert, one and a half seasons of Taylor, Half a season of Waddock...before a little gap in attendance as there was not enough money resting in my account...and back as a ST for the Torquay season and GA's tenure to date. All I can say is the improvement in fortunes, high points and players have been incredible, especially over the last three seasons. In my opinion we were playing well enough with a good side to have made the Covid play-offs, PPG or not, the Championship was welcome but something I could not have predicted during the L2 years, and now we are again, playing well (mostly) and still in with a chance of the L1 playoffs. I know football is a mess of high drama and low tragedy, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but some of the hyperbole on match day threads during and post a match gets a bit silly as if people have never seen Wycombe play or heard about the game of football before! (And I've blocked a few of the usual one line only post when we are losing dimwits!) I know I am one of the rosy coloured specs folks, but I'm enjoying a reasonably well-run, seemingly solvent League One team challenging for promotion...and will continue to do so, if that's the way it has to be...without insulting or abusing our existing players, demanding major outlay on The Player who will ensure survival or promotion, or calling for the head of one of our best managers (certainly in my years in leafy Bucks)!
So what should we do? Just not bother trying and accept our place in the pyramid below all the teams with more money than us and above those with less?
It doesn't affect you in any way other than how you interact with strangers on a message board anyway
I certainly haven't suggested anything of the sort Eric. We should of course aim to sign the best possible players and team we can afford and win every game on the way to ultimate Champions League glory. Just as I aim to win the lottery every week.
I don't expect to win the lottery every week though much as I would like to just as I don't expect WWFC to be a sustainable Championship team much as I would like them to be. I was curious why @ReturnToSenda is confident that is achievable. I think it is unlikely
@Glenactico I think Stocko gesturing to the terrace not to give the ball back in first half extra time while the referee watched him might have led to the officials to be a bit more lenient towards Wigan time wasting once they were in the lead!
Some pondering on last night.
I never expected us to go up. We have performed better than I dreamed early season so hope had crept in - damn you hope. Did we have a chance to strengthen better in January and really give it a go? Maybe. Should we? Maybe
Looking forward how sustainable is our current budget for 2 or 3 more years in league 1. Who can we afford to keep who will have to go? Was this a 1 year roll of the dice budget or a sustainable one?
GA seems to be struggling with his best team at the moment and when he gets stability has had unlucky injuries or dips in form.
Like most I don’t understand how we go from playing slick passing football to the worst ugly hoofball in the same half. How can this be fixed? It seems we are so close but at times so far from being a top 1,2 or 3 team.
Not the result we wanted. We go again. Never too high ….
Blah blah blah
There's a significant difference between us and club's like Coventry, Luton etc. They have been in the first division/premiership before. We have not and the Championship (old div 2) is the highest r have been. We are building, on an upward trajectory, it may take a little time but will be worth it in the end.
I agree, it does seem unlikely. Of clubs of our 'size' (which I know is very subjective) and budget range the only ones who have achieved Championship status for more than a couple of years over my 30 years of watching football are Crewe and Walsall, and both of them have since sunk back into the League One / League Two world.
Of the teams promoted to the League for the first time since automatic promotion was introduced, only three (including us) have been promoted to the Championship, and only Burton lasted more than a season.
Wimbledon and Wigan seem to me to be the only teams who have joined the League in the last 50 years who have established themselves for any length of time in the top two tiers. Wigan required more money than we will ever have to do it, and Wimbledon thrived on the general football chaos of the 1980s (before disappearing in their own chaos).
It would be marvellous if we did became a regular Championship club, but anyone 'expecting' it is likely to be disappointed.
It's Premier League NOT premiership
Sorry to be a pedant, I count 4 Championship teams who were automatically promoted from non league:
Us, Burton, Yeovil, Colchester.
Just because it's not been done before doesn't mean it can't be done
Colchester weren't promoted to the league for the first time...
Loving the pedant off.
But of course what has happened before is irrelevant to what happens going forward surely?
It all depends who picks us up after Rob C has done his thing.