However, you have to counteract that with our 5th goal, which was a long ball over the top from Thompson, an excellent chase from Hanlan that lead to Vokes finishing. It's not quite as simple as saying cut out the long ball. What was evident was that our midfield were too far forward when the ball was hit and it was landing between them and the back three.
I think we were poor defensively and it was not the game to remove JJ and bring on McCleary. JJ should have stayed on and Stewart should have been introduced as well. We should also have gone to a back four.
JJ regularly hoovers up the mistakes of the other center backs and gets us out of jail time and time again. Even for their first goal, if he'd been left to deal with his first clearance, they would not have scored. Forino got in the way and made a poor header back to goal after JJs initial half clearance.
For the 4th goal you could argue Forino let May go and JJ should have got across. The left centre back, in a three, should not be responsible for chasing a ball down our right channel. He could have got there in the end but I suspect he felt the ball would bounce and go through to Stockdale.
From my view in the Frank Adams it always felt like the ball was going to bounce and then Stockdale would have come and collected, which is why he was by the penalty spot. Somehow May managed to take that ball down, which then left JJ too far away and Stockdale off his line (although in my mind in the correct position). An amazing piece of skill and what a stunning finish. I applauded that, as did many others in the FA.
For their 5th goal, Forino & Obita's positioning and then Obita completely missing the header was poor (I'm fairly convinced JJ would not have been in such a bad position for the cross). Equally, Obita would not have been in such a bad position if he was playing left wing back, as to the one McCleary found himself in and made such a hash of the clearance.
I have no issue with Obita going into left back in a back four but he is not a left centre back in a three. It was poor from Ainsworth and Dobson. I suspect they will learn from it and we will not see that again.
I'm still really frustrated by our last 10 minutes and the substitutions. I just hope Stewart starts tomorrow night and whatever has been going on has been put to bed. If he cannot get a start tomorrow after the last five games, then clearly there is an issue that needs resolving sooner rather than later. Otherwise we can kiss goodbye to any chance of reaching the play-offs. Without Stewart, I just don't see us making them.
@micra said:
Not nice, I know, but I’d be very tempted to boo every time someone hoofs aimlessly forward (with the possible exception of Stockdale, although I gather his kicking wasn’t up to the usual standard on Saturday, possibly affected by his strapped up left knee - or was that an over long sock !)
@micra said:
Not nice, I know, but I’d be very tempted to boo every time someone hoofs aimlessly forward (with the possible exception of Stockdale, although I gather his kicking wasn’t up to the usual standard on Saturday, possibly affected by his strapped up left knee - or was that an over long sock !)
Didn't you hear? Booing is banned at Adams Park.
Despite an entire thread discussing booing which actually happened at Adams Park.
You're veering into GB News territory here. Because people disagree with what you say then "you're not allowed to say that anymore"
@Wendoverman said:
I've never watched GB News but dread to think what the channel of Farage and Holmes makes of sport. I assume they blame Abroad for the weather?
@micra said:
Not nice, I know, but I’d be very tempted to boo every time someone hoofs aimlessly forward (with the possible exception of Stockdale, although I gather his kicking wasn’t up to the usual standard on Saturday, possibly affected by his strapped up left knee - or was that an over long sock !)
Didn't you hear? Booing is banned at Adams Park.
Genuine question: do people think that booing your own players is in any way helpful to the cause?
@micra said:
Not nice, I know, but I’d be very tempted to boo every time someone hoofs aimlessly forward (with the possible exception of Stockdale, although I gather his kicking wasn’t up to the usual standard on Saturday, possibly affected by his strapped up left knee - or was that an over long sock !)
Didn't you hear? Booing is banned at Adams Park.
Genuine question: do people think that booing your own players is in any way helpful to the cause?
I've already explained my stance on it - read back a few pages. Others think differently, but I don't think we should police how people voice their frustrations as long as it doesn't stray into abuse.
I agree the analysis on this thread, in general, has been a bit too dramatic.
I have no issue with McCleary coming on but he should not have come on for JJ. That was suicidal.
He should have come on for Hanlan, Kaikai, Horgan or Wheeler.
Whilst the conditions meant some of our players didn't have their best games defensively, it still doesn't excuse the ridiculous substitution. Given we'd already conceded 4 goals in the first 80 minutes, removing our most experienced defensive player and Captain in favour of an attacking player was odd.
With the very next attack, after that substitution, they scored because Obita and McCleary were in the wrong place when the cross came in.
JJ on an off day at left centre back is still better than Obita in that position. Obita on an off day is still better than McCleary at left wing back.
Walking down Hillbottom Road, one guy was trying to justify the removal of JJ because he was on a yellow card! Madness...
Genuine question: do people think that booing your own players is in any way helpful to the cause?
I've already explained my stance on it - read back a few pages. Others think differently, but I don't think we should police how people voice their frustrations as long as it doesn't stray into abuse.
But some posters have said it strays into abuse and personal insults. I’m not suggesting that we should police how people voice their frustrations, but I can’t get my head around why people who call themselves supporters can be so vindictive towards their own players.
Genuine question: do people think that booing your own players is in any way helpful to the cause?
I've already explained my stance on it - read back a few pages. Others think differently, but I don't think we should police how people voice their frustrations as long as it doesn't stray into abuse.
But some posters have said it strays into abuse and personal insults. I’m not suggesting that we should police how people voice their frustrations, but I can’t get my head around why people who call themselves supporters can be so vindictive towards their own players.
Based on my experience of those cretins, it's just habit and doesn't matter how the team is doing (not that there's ever any excuse for it). Very sad.
Perhaps our expectations have justifiably become too high and, as has been said already, Saturday’s game was very much a one-off but we are also justifiably puzzled and frustrated when a defender like Anthony Stewart sits on the bench for three or four games. Often rightly described as imperious and surely one of the first names on the team sheet, it’s very difficult to imagine that we’d have lost that game if he’d played, if only for half an hour or so. And the (apparent - I wasn’t there) hoofing the ball into the wind seemed a strange tactic in such stormy conditions. We saw how well it worked for Cheltenham in the first half.
I have never booed my own team but I don’t know what else a fan can do in terms of direct action (as opposed to having a gripe on the Gasroom, Facebook or Twitter) to express how much he or she dislikes constant and often aimless long kicks forward. Around this time last year, we started playing the ball on the deck and the transformation was magical.
The wind is expected to be a gentle breeze tomorrow evening and there will clearly be changes of personnel. I think we will probably draw (I’ve gone for 2-2 on the Samaritans thread) but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we get a narrow victory. All in the world would then be well again!
I suppose the booing problem is that Sam Vokes and Jordan Obita, who both scored two great goals and put in a good performance might feel somewhat deflated to be booed off...or called names by Stokesey and his podcasting posse.
@Wendoverman said:
I see some criticism of that Ainsworth on Twitter for punishing Taffs and Stewart. What was the story again?
From what I gather, Taffs rode a white horse along Hillbottom Road, when he had previously told GA he was too sick to go horseback riding after a visit to the plastic factory in Milton Keynes that should never have been built (and which displaced several wombles during construction). Stewart stood up for Taffs, as Tools has loved horses ever since seeing the Grand National for the first time as a wee child. Ainsworth punished Taffs by having him muck out the stalls instead of playing, and Stewart was punished by being given a place on the bench even though GA is not going to play him, which really punished whoever would have been on the bench had Stewart been simply dropped. There is also a new theory that JJ mumbled "I like horses" after Cheltenham scored one of their goals, which caused GA to give him the hook in favour of GMac, who assured Gareth he has never liked horses.
I could be wrong though, as I have not quite given the rumours my full attention.
@Wendoverman said:
I see some criticism of that Ainsworth on Twitter for punishing Taffs and Stewart. What was the story again?
From what I gather, Taffs rode a white horse along Hillbottom Road, when he had previously told GA he was too sick to go horseback riding after a visit to the plastic factory in Milton Keynes that should never have been built (and which displaced several wombles during construction). Stewart stood up for Taffs, as Tools has loved horses ever since seeing the Grand National for the first time as a wee child. Ainsworth punished Taffs by having him muck out the stalls instead of playing, and Stewart was punished by being given a place on the bench even though GA is not going to play him, which really punished whoever would have been on the bench had Stewart been simply dropped. There is also a new theory that JJ mumbled "I like horses" after Cheltenham scored one of their goals, which caused GA to give him the hook in favour of GMac, who assured Gareth he has never liked horses.
I could be wrong though, as I have not quite given the rumours my full attention.
Thanks @Shev, that explains it, although pretty bad management not to keep all this in the dressing room.
I think all we know is that he's not injured (per Phil on commentary on Saturday). Let's see what tomorrow brings. The Stewart situation feels just as odd.
Depending on whether or not you class a wing-back as a defender, only three defenders in the top four divisions have more assists than Obita this season - TAA, Robertson and Kane Wilson (FGR).
@Wendoverman said:
I suppose the booing problem is that Sam Vokes and Jordan Obita, who both scored two great goals and put in a good performance might feel somewhat deflated to be booed off...or called names by Stokesey and his podcasting posse.
This is the problem with booing, it’s a very rare day when the whole team plus subs play poorly so why should they all have to suffer from fans’ anger and frustration? The only possible justification for booing is if the players have not tried their best and that’s an accusation that could never be levelled at our team.
Comments
However, you have to counteract that with our 5th goal, which was a long ball over the top from Thompson, an excellent chase from Hanlan that lead to Vokes finishing. It's not quite as simple as saying cut out the long ball. What was evident was that our midfield were too far forward when the ball was hit and it was landing between them and the back three.
I think we were poor defensively and it was not the game to remove JJ and bring on McCleary. JJ should have stayed on and Stewart should have been introduced as well. We should also have gone to a back four.
JJ regularly hoovers up the mistakes of the other center backs and gets us out of jail time and time again. Even for their first goal, if he'd been left to deal with his first clearance, they would not have scored. Forino got in the way and made a poor header back to goal after JJs initial half clearance.
For the 4th goal you could argue Forino let May go and JJ should have got across. The left centre back, in a three, should not be responsible for chasing a ball down our right channel. He could have got there in the end but I suspect he felt the ball would bounce and go through to Stockdale.
From my view in the Frank Adams it always felt like the ball was going to bounce and then Stockdale would have come and collected, which is why he was by the penalty spot. Somehow May managed to take that ball down, which then left JJ too far away and Stockdale off his line (although in my mind in the correct position). An amazing piece of skill and what a stunning finish. I applauded that, as did many others in the FA.
For their 5th goal, Forino & Obita's positioning and then Obita completely missing the header was poor (I'm fairly convinced JJ would not have been in such a bad position for the cross). Equally, Obita would not have been in such a bad position if he was playing left wing back, as to the one McCleary found himself in and made such a hash of the clearance.
I have no issue with Obita going into left back in a back four but he is not a left centre back in a three. It was poor from Ainsworth and Dobson. I suspect they will learn from it and we will not see that again.
I'm still really frustrated by our last 10 minutes and the substitutions. I just hope Stewart starts tomorrow night and whatever has been going on has been put to bed. If he cannot get a start tomorrow after the last five games, then clearly there is an issue that needs resolving sooner rather than later. Otherwise we can kiss goodbye to any chance of reaching the play-offs. Without Stewart, I just don't see us making them.
Didn't you hear? Booing is banned at Adams Park.
Have seen it said that Stewart had been out of form. Really?
Despite an entire thread discussing booing which actually happened at Adams Park.
You're veering into GB News territory here. Because people disagree with what you say then "you're not allowed to say that anymore"
An entire thread discussing booing? Sounds enthralling.
I've never watched GB News but dread to think what the channel of Farage and Holmes makes of sport. I assume they blame Abroad for the weather?
Booo
That made me jump!
I didn't even think it was a thing anymore
Ah, adding an extra o clearly didn't have the effect I intended
Well said fame46.
Genuine question: do people think that booing your own players is in any way helpful to the cause?
I've already explained my stance on it - read back a few pages. Others think differently, but I don't think we should police how people voice their frustrations as long as it doesn't stray into abuse.
I agree the analysis on this thread, in general, has been a bit too dramatic.
I have no issue with McCleary coming on but he should not have come on for JJ. That was suicidal.
He should have come on for Hanlan, Kaikai, Horgan or Wheeler.
Whilst the conditions meant some of our players didn't have their best games defensively, it still doesn't excuse the ridiculous substitution. Given we'd already conceded 4 goals in the first 80 minutes, removing our most experienced defensive player and Captain in favour of an attacking player was odd.
With the very next attack, after that substitution, they scored because Obita and McCleary were in the wrong place when the cross came in.
JJ on an off day at left centre back is still better than Obita in that position. Obita on an off day is still better than McCleary at left wing back.
Walking down Hillbottom Road, one guy was trying to justify the removal of JJ because he was on a yellow card! Madness...
Sorry for upsetting the GB News viewer...
But some posters have said it strays into abuse and personal insults. I’m not suggesting that we should police how people voice their frustrations, but I can’t get my head around why people who call themselves supporters can be so vindictive towards their own players.
Based on my experience of those cretins, it's just habit and doesn't matter how the team is doing (not that there's ever any excuse for it). Very sad.
Most of them are in a permanent state of upset about something or other.
Perhaps our expectations have justifiably become too high and, as has been said already, Saturday’s game was very much a one-off but we are also justifiably puzzled and frustrated when a defender like Anthony Stewart sits on the bench for three or four games. Often rightly described as imperious and surely one of the first names on the team sheet, it’s very difficult to imagine that we’d have lost that game if he’d played, if only for half an hour or so. And the (apparent - I wasn’t there) hoofing the ball into the wind seemed a strange tactic in such stormy conditions. We saw how well it worked for Cheltenham in the first half.
I have never booed my own team but I don’t know what else a fan can do in terms of direct action (as opposed to having a gripe on the Gasroom, Facebook or Twitter) to express how much he or she dislikes constant and often aimless long kicks forward. Around this time last year, we started playing the ball on the deck and the transformation was magical.
The wind is expected to be a gentle breeze tomorrow evening and there will clearly be changes of personnel. I think we will probably draw (I’ve gone for 2-2 on the Samaritans thread) but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we get a narrow victory. All in the world would then be well again!
I suppose the booing problem is that Sam Vokes and Jordan Obita, who both scored two great goals and put in a good performance might feel somewhat deflated to be booed off...or called names by Stokesey and his podcasting posse.
apologies to Stokesey and his podcasting posse.
I see some criticism of that Ainsworth on Twitter for punishing Taffs and Stewart. What was the story again?
From what I gather, Taffs rode a white horse along Hillbottom Road, when he had previously told GA he was too sick to go horseback riding after a visit to the plastic factory in Milton Keynes that should never have been built (and which displaced several wombles during construction). Stewart stood up for Taffs, as Tools has loved horses ever since seeing the Grand National for the first time as a wee child. Ainsworth punished Taffs by having him muck out the stalls instead of playing, and Stewart was punished by being given a place on the bench even though GA is not going to play him, which really punished whoever would have been on the bench had Stewart been simply dropped. There is also a new theory that JJ mumbled "I like horses" after Cheltenham scored one of their goals, which caused GA to give him the hook in favour of GMac, who assured Gareth he has never liked horses.
I could be wrong though, as I have not quite given the rumours my full attention.
Thanks @Shev, that explains it, although pretty bad management not to keep all this in the dressing room.
I think all we know is that he's not injured (per Phil on commentary on Saturday). Let's see what tomorrow brings. The Stewart situation feels just as odd.
Depending on whether or not you class a wing-back as a defender, only three defenders in the top four divisions have more assists than Obita this season - TAA, Robertson and Kane Wilson (FGR).
Earlier in the season I was castigated for my criticism of Taff and even I’m missing him!
This is the problem with booing, it’s a very rare day when the whole team plus subs play poorly so why should they all have to suffer from fans’ anger and frustration? The only possible justification for booing is if the players have not tried their best and that’s an accusation that could never be levelled at our team.