@ReturnToSenda said:
If being up in arms about conceding five goals at home = tantrum, I'd love to know how many we'd have to concede for the reaction to be deemed reasonable.
Criticism of our defending yesterday is perfectly valid, but when that escalates into dire predictions about our chances of finishing in the top six I just don’t agree with it. There is still one third of the season to go and despite our recent poor form we have averaged 1.7 points per game over the season. Replicate that in the remaining games and we will finish with circa 78/79 points which is almost always enough to finish in the playoff places.
@HolmerBlue said:
I'm really not keen on this only one center back playing business, and I'm not saying that because of yesterday, never been that keen on it. Personal view but if we had 2 center backs playing yesterday we'd have won that.
We're you saying that last season when switching to it almost kept us up?
There are weak points with the system, mainly that we are caught without a midfield far too often. A player with the quality of Alfie May who drops deep will exploit that. I was also expecting a reshuffle to 4-4-2 at the end, though with our frustratingly poor defending and inability to adapt our play in face of a strong wind it probably wouldn't have made much difference.
I think teams are just wise to it now and have gradually worked out how to play against it. We were one of the first to move to it last season and it worked and we were then ahead of the game this season. Now so many have adopted Ito think there is more of a levelling up so we have lost our advantage on it. Best coaches and sides are often ahead of the game so hopefully we are working on something in the background that can give us a new advantage. After all, didn’t someone say once that madness is continuing to do the same thing time and time again. Or similar.
@ReturnToSenda said:
We've had too many 'off days' for a play-off chasing team. Have to set it right on Tuesday.
Looking at the table it appears we have had almost exactly the same number of off-days as Oxford, Plymouth, Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday and a few less than Ipswich, Bolton, Portsmouth and Charlton.
When you look at the history, fan base and income of most of those clubs, it is remarkable that WWFC this season is rubbing shoulders with them as equals. I would advise enjoy the ride - including ten goal thrillers - it may not always be like this.
I think Stocko needs to be partially blamed for getting lobbed twice, at the least.
The main problem with the defence isn't 3 at the back, it's the lack of any protection for them. Thommo is a firehorse charging around the pitch breaking up play, and yesterday we had an attacking playmaker alongside him which was always going to leave us exposed.
At some stage in the future the club will be languishing in the bottom six having lost 3-0 at home yet again and seemingly will never score again.
With respect I’d leave yourself some room to wallow in for such days and not hit rock bottom after a high scoring draw in playoff contention in Lg1.
@DevC said:
At some stage in the future the club will be languishing in the bottom six having lost 3-0 at home yet again and seemingly will never score again.
With respect I’d leave yourself some room to wallow in for such days and not hit rock bottom after a high scoring draw in playoff contention in Lg1.
Tbh, if anyone wants to cheer themselves up a bit just pay the Sunderland forum a visit, always makes me feel better ! Moaning about the new manager already after only 2 games lol
@ReturnToSenda said:
Yesterday was only a thriller if you were a neutral or a Cheltenham fan
It was pure madness yesterday and for that reason alone I really enjoyed it. Football is becoming so tactical and set up that seeing it all go out the window was lack a fresh breeze going through.
If you turned up yesterday expecting us to roll over Cheltenham I can see why some might be throwing toys around but giving respect to the opposition is something I try to do. They gave us plenty of problems yesterday and it that hat trick goal by May was top draw. The spontaneous applause by some Wycombe fans around me will be remembered . Coming so soon after two goals in 17 seconds by Sam Voakes it was pure sporting brilliance. A memory.
It wasn’t a performance or day to make big decisions over. It was a day to enjoy the madness. I missed the 5-5 draw against Leek and have regretted it. I’ll remember yesterday for ages for the spectacle it was and knowing full well the coaches and manager will never want us to see it again.
We conceded five goals at home for the first time in 10 years and defended shambolically... It's exactly the kind of performance to make big decisions over - and any coach worth their salt will do that.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Yesterday was only a thriller if you were a neutral or a Cheltenham fan
It was pure madness yesterday and for that reason alone I really enjoyed it. Football is becoming so tactical and set up that seeing it all go out the window was lack a fresh breeze going through.
If you turned up yesterday expecting us to roll over Cheltenham I can see why some might be throwing toys around but giving respect to the opposition is something I try to do. They gave us plenty of problems yesterday and it that hat trick goal by May was top draw. The spontaneous applause by some Wycombe fans around me will be remembered . Coming so soon after two goals in 17 seconds by Sam Voakes it was pure sporting brilliance. A memory.
It wasn’t a performance or day to make big decisions over. It was a day to enjoy the madness. I missed the 5-5 draw against Leek and have regretted it. I’ll remember yesterday for ages for the spectacle it was and knowing full well the coaches and manager will never want us to see it again.
Sadly we don't get any extra points for "enjoying the madness"
Yesterday was an absolutely horrendous defensive display, though Alfie May took full advantage and looked a constant threat. Defending is not just about physical attributes, but also about leadership, organisation, experience and showing calm under pressure. We showed none of that yesterday, albeit in really tough conditions. Our best two defenders, neither of whom are injured, were not on the pitch which is obviously going to be a talking point. Stewart would not be on the bench for 3 games running if he were not capable of coming on in a crisis, such as yesterday - we have no problem with naming less than 7 subs if required so if he is on the bench, he is presumably available for selection. Tafazolli is not injured, as per Phil’s comment on the commentary yesterday. There is obviously a reason why Gareth has made the decision and if that is what he thinks best, he deserves to be trusted about that, but as so many have said in the past, in a vacuum of information speculation will occur.
I think the issue with a back 3 compared to a back 4 is about style of performance, rather than results for me. To an extent I agree that with the point that right personnel at the back, both a 3 and 4 have worked for us, and also the midfield cover (or lack of it) is just as important in the quality of our defending and our solidity. But when we changed from a 4 to a 3 last season it almost immediately unlocked a more progressive style of play - we seemed to have more options on the ball and passed more effectively. We were ourselves at our best, direct but mixed with good interplay on the ground. This season started similarly, I can especially remember the first 15 minutes at Sunderland where we were absolutely electric, passing and moving the ball on the floor. But that seems to have largely disappeared now and we’ve reverted back to aimless long ball with the odd decent bit of interplay. I think a bit of a reset back to a 4 and back to basics might help us.
Generally I think we’re still in the play off mix, but I think with the form of others we will quickly drop away unless we arrest our slide soon. Really very disappointing and an opportunity missed but not the absolute end of the world. If we can keep hold of Wing and get Gape fit, with Thompson and Scowen we have excellent central options for next season. We must keep hold of Vokes, who was absolutely magnificent yesterday, he is going to be key next season if we can get back up. We may need one or two central defenders depending on Stewart and Tafazolli situation, but we have the core of a very good squad, and with next year likely to be a slightly weaker division, hopefully we can excel more so than this year.
@Brownie said:
Has Stewart signed a new contract yet?
He hasn't. And that to me feels like the most overlooked and most obvious reason for his recent omissions. Very similar to Mehmeti earlier in the season, who couldn't get in the side for quite a while when his contract was due to expire. Hope we can get it sorted - Stewart is a genuinely Championship standard defender.
Hi @ReturnToSenda I can’t remember the exact wording but something along the lines of ‘left out of the squad completely, needs to work his way back into the team’ In any case it was clear from the comment he wasn’t injured and just wasn’t selected.
I had also noted in a previous post yesterday about Stewart’s contract situation but it has disappeared for some reason (pretty sure it was something I did). It is a worry that he’ll leave in the Summer.
Having slept on it, I think that game was just one of those batshit crazy afternoons where a further 30 minutes may have ended 9-9. Everyone on the pitch just got dragged into the madness.
If we had conceded one fewer it’d be a ‘classic of our times’. If they’d conceded one fewer we’d be in ‘Ainsworth out’ territory. Such is the level of overreacting from the modern day football supporter.
We should take solace in the fact that no-one in this thread is talking about xG or VAR.
I went from elation to anger in quick succession yesterday. The result was a shame but both sides played well and used/were bamboozled by the conditions. Some of our best players were a bit crap and others were brilliant. A curate's egg indeed. Still in the playoffs. Still happier than a Sunderland fan.
@Quarterman said:
Hi @ReturnToSenda I can’t remember the exact wording but something along the lines of ‘left out of the squad completely, needs to work his way back into the team’ In any case it was clear from the comment he wasn’t injured and just wasn’t selected.
I had also noted in a previous post yesterday about Stewart’s contract situation but it has disappeared for some reason (pretty sure it was something I did). It is a worry that he’ll leave in the Summer.
I think his age has always kept us safe from buyers, but he might get some Championship interest if he's available on a free. I'm still not overly worried, though - and I never really am about any player leaving given our track record for replacing well (plus we've already got Forino coming through in this case).
Bringing McCleary on for Jacobson reminded me a bit of when Ben Frempah came on for Scott Kashket in a game at Adams Park in 2019 when we were looking for a goal. We lost that game 1-0 and the general feeling was that relegation was around the corner, just like the feeling is now of us missing the playoffs.
Hopefully this is a turning point and we turn things around and make the playoffs, just like we avoided relegation in 2019
Sorry for being like a broken record but I still don´t get bringing on McCleary when Stewart or McCarthy were both on the bench.
I'd be sad to see him go but not worried about our chances on the pitch as I back this management team to replace adequately - their track record speaks for itself.
Anyone going on to other fan forums and mocking their reactions to events needs to bookmark this thread for some context.
I’m feeling really bad about enjoying an entertaining game of football yesterday. I really should know better and stick to speculating about stuff and rifts and hoping for another goal less stale mate.
@ReturnToSenda said:
If being up in arms about conceding five goals at home = tantrum, I'd love to know how many we'd have to concede for the reaction to be deemed reasonable.
Criticism of our defending yesterday is perfectly valid, but when that escalates into dire predictions about our chances of finishing in the top six I just don’t agree with it. There is still one third of the season to go and despite our recent poor form we have averaged 1.7 points per game over the season. Replicate that in the remaining games and we will finish with circa 78/79 points which is almost always enough to finish in the playoff places.
The average 6th place finish points in the League over the last 5 years ( when season completed) is 72 . So it’s definitely not all gloom and doom. Just need to turn round our form.
Likewise @Right_in_the_Middle I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's game, it was absolutely bonkers. The conditions played a huge part, players from both sides were made to look foolish. Yeah of course it was frustrating and some of the errors can't just be attributed to the wind, but it happens, players have off days. Thankfully our forwards played well and we were able to get a point.
I don't really understand the meltdown and the ridiculous rumours? We've played in some classic matches over the past few years, we can't win them all! Better than a turgid 0-0 anyday!
Comments
We've had too many 'off days' for a play-off chasing team. Have to set it right on Tuesday.
Criticism of our defending yesterday is perfectly valid, but when that escalates into dire predictions about our chances of finishing in the top six I just don’t agree with it. There is still one third of the season to go and despite our recent poor form we have averaged 1.7 points per game over the season. Replicate that in the remaining games and we will finish with circa 78/79 points which is almost always enough to finish in the playoff places.
We're you saying that last season when switching to it almost kept us up?
There are weak points with the system, mainly that we are caught without a midfield far too often. A player with the quality of Alfie May who drops deep will exploit that. I was also expecting a reshuffle to 4-4-2 at the end, though with our frustratingly poor defending and inability to adapt our play in face of a strong wind it probably wouldn't have made much difference.
Surely yesterday was the perfect game for a Bayo cameo? Wind was causing problems, might have taken advantage of that.
I think teams are just wise to it now and have gradually worked out how to play against it. We were one of the first to move to it last season and it worked and we were then ahead of the game this season. Now so many have adopted Ito think there is more of a levelling up so we have lost our advantage on it. Best coaches and sides are often ahead of the game so hopefully we are working on something in the background that can give us a new advantage. After all, didn’t someone say once that madness is continuing to do the same thing time and time again. Or similar.
Looking at the table it appears we have had almost exactly the same number of off-days as Oxford, Plymouth, Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday and a few less than Ipswich, Bolton, Portsmouth and Charlton.
When you look at the history, fan base and income of most of those clubs, it is remarkable that WWFC this season is rubbing shoulders with them as equals. I would advise enjoy the ride - including ten goal thrillers - it may not always be like this.
Yesterday was only a thriller if you were a neutral or a Cheltenham fan
I think Stocko needs to be partially blamed for getting lobbed twice, at the least.
The main problem with the defence isn't 3 at the back, it's the lack of any protection for them. Thommo is a firehorse charging around the pitch breaking up play, and yesterday we had an attacking playmaker alongside him which was always going to leave us exposed.
At some stage in the future the club will be languishing in the bottom six having lost 3-0 at home yet again and seemingly will never score again.
With respect I’d leave yourself some room to wallow in for such days and not hit rock bottom after a high scoring draw in playoff contention in Lg1.
Don't worry, I'm not there just yet
Tbh, if anyone wants to cheer themselves up a bit just pay the Sunderland forum a visit, always makes me feel better ! Moaning about the new manager already after only 2 games lol
It was pure madness yesterday and for that reason alone I really enjoyed it. Football is becoming so tactical and set up that seeing it all go out the window was lack a fresh breeze going through.
If you turned up yesterday expecting us to roll over Cheltenham I can see why some might be throwing toys around but giving respect to the opposition is something I try to do. They gave us plenty of problems yesterday and it that hat trick goal by May was top draw. The spontaneous applause by some Wycombe fans around me will be remembered . Coming so soon after two goals in 17 seconds by Sam Voakes it was pure sporting brilliance. A memory.
It wasn’t a performance or day to make big decisions over. It was a day to enjoy the madness. I missed the 5-5 draw against Leek and have regretted it. I’ll remember yesterday for ages for the spectacle it was and knowing full well the coaches and manager will never want us to see it again.
We conceded five goals at home for the first time in 10 years and defended shambolically... It's exactly the kind of performance to make big decisions over - and any coach worth their salt will do that.
Sadly we don't get any extra points for "enjoying the madness"
Yesterday was an absolutely horrendous defensive display, though Alfie May took full advantage and looked a constant threat. Defending is not just about physical attributes, but also about leadership, organisation, experience and showing calm under pressure. We showed none of that yesterday, albeit in really tough conditions. Our best two defenders, neither of whom are injured, were not on the pitch which is obviously going to be a talking point. Stewart would not be on the bench for 3 games running if he were not capable of coming on in a crisis, such as yesterday - we have no problem with naming less than 7 subs if required so if he is on the bench, he is presumably available for selection. Tafazolli is not injured, as per Phil’s comment on the commentary yesterday. There is obviously a reason why Gareth has made the decision and if that is what he thinks best, he deserves to be trusted about that, but as so many have said in the past, in a vacuum of information speculation will occur.
I think the issue with a back 3 compared to a back 4 is about style of performance, rather than results for me. To an extent I agree that with the point that right personnel at the back, both a 3 and 4 have worked for us, and also the midfield cover (or lack of it) is just as important in the quality of our defending and our solidity. But when we changed from a 4 to a 3 last season it almost immediately unlocked a more progressive style of play - we seemed to have more options on the ball and passed more effectively. We were ourselves at our best, direct but mixed with good interplay on the ground. This season started similarly, I can especially remember the first 15 minutes at Sunderland where we were absolutely electric, passing and moving the ball on the floor. But that seems to have largely disappeared now and we’ve reverted back to aimless long ball with the odd decent bit of interplay. I think a bit of a reset back to a 4 and back to basics might help us.
Generally I think we’re still in the play off mix, but I think with the form of others we will quickly drop away unless we arrest our slide soon. Really very disappointing and an opportunity missed but not the absolute end of the world. If we can keep hold of Wing and get Gape fit, with Thompson and Scowen we have excellent central options for next season. We must keep hold of Vokes, who was absolutely magnificent yesterday, he is going to be key next season if we can get back up. We may need one or two central defenders depending on Stewart and Tafazolli situation, but we have the core of a very good squad, and with next year likely to be a slightly weaker division, hopefully we can excel more so than this year.
Has Stewart signed a new contract yet?
He hasn't. And that to me feels like the most overlooked and most obvious reason for his recent omissions. Very similar to Mehmeti earlier in the season, who couldn't get in the side for quite a while when his contract was due to expire. Hope we can get it sorted - Stewart is a genuinely Championship standard defender.
@Quarterman What did Phil say about Taf?
Hi @ReturnToSenda I can’t remember the exact wording but something along the lines of ‘left out of the squad completely, needs to work his way back into the team’ In any case it was clear from the comment he wasn’t injured and just wasn’t selected.
I had also noted in a previous post yesterday about Stewart’s contract situation but it has disappeared for some reason (pretty sure it was something I did). It is a worry that he’ll leave in the Summer.
Having slept on it, I think that game was just one of those batshit crazy afternoons where a further 30 minutes may have ended 9-9. Everyone on the pitch just got dragged into the madness.
If we had conceded one fewer it’d be a ‘classic of our times’. If they’d conceded one fewer we’d be in ‘Ainsworth out’ territory. Such is the level of overreacting from the modern day football supporter.
We should take solace in the fact that no-one in this thread is talking about xG or VAR.
Just give it time....
Well, now that you mention it...
I went from elation to anger in quick succession yesterday. The result was a shame but both sides played well and used/were bamboozled by the conditions. Some of our best players were a bit crap and others were brilliant. A curate's egg indeed. Still in the playoffs. Still happier than a Sunderland fan.
I think his age has always kept us safe from buyers, but he might get some Championship interest if he's available on a free. I'm still not overly worried, though - and I never really am about any player leaving given our track record for replacing well (plus we've already got Forino coming through in this case).
That's quite cold. He was with the club as a kid, under Dobbo's guidance came all the way through the ranks. And then "that" Wembley performance
I'd be gutted if he left
Bringing McCleary on for Jacobson reminded me a bit of when Ben Frempah came on for Scott Kashket in a game at Adams Park in 2019 when we were looking for a goal. We lost that game 1-0 and the general feeling was that relegation was around the corner, just like the feeling is now of us missing the playoffs.
Hopefully this is a turning point and we turn things around and make the playoffs, just like we avoided relegation in 2019
Sorry for being like a broken record but I still don´t get bringing on McCleary when Stewart or McCarthy were both on the bench.
I'd be sad to see him go but not worried about our chances on the pitch as I back this management team to replace adequately - their track record speaks for itself.
Anyone going on to other fan forums and mocking their reactions to events needs to bookmark this thread for some context.
I’m feeling really bad about enjoying an entertaining game of football yesterday. I really should know better and stick to speculating about stuff and rifts and hoping for another goal less stale mate.
The average 6th place finish points in the League over the last 5 years ( when season completed) is 72 . So it’s definitely not all gloom and doom. Just need to turn round our form.
Likewise @Right_in_the_Middle I thoroughly enjoyed yesterday's game, it was absolutely bonkers. The conditions played a huge part, players from both sides were made to look foolish. Yeah of course it was frustrating and some of the errors can't just be attributed to the wind, but it happens, players have off days. Thankfully our forwards played well and we were able to get a point.
I don't really understand the meltdown and the ridiculous rumours? We've played in some classic matches over the past few years, we can't win them all! Better than a turgid 0-0 anyday!