They’d be 17th in the table if you add their 21 points back on.
I think a seige mentality can count for a lot in these situations. Certainly worth some additional points, obviously there is no way of proving this!
@Raminpeace said:
looks like I can't post in other threads so I'll comment here.... Great result against Plymouth, You should beat Wimbledon and Burton. That leaves Wendy as the hard one. Win that and get the right results elsewhere and the playoffs are there. Hope you do well.
How you feeling? Full of hope the miracle might happen? Realistic that miracles don’t happen? Optimistic for a massive turnaround of fortunes next season in L1 and looking forward to great things? Just happy to have a club? Not convinced the current bid will happen?
I've been saying for a long time that survival was not impossible but highly unlikley. Yesterday, relegation became a fact. The team has made a decent fist of it all season. Proud of what they've done. A high % won't be with us next season IMO.
Next season's expectations are midtable consolidation. Anything better would be a bonus. Our last stay in L1 lasted 2 seasons. I wouldn't complain if promotion came in the 2nd season again but I am very aware that a lot of clubs have spent more time than that there following relegation. City, forest, Leicester all spent a few seasons there. Sunderland, Ipswich have both been there a while. It's not a given.
Seeing the reaction to relegation puzzles me a little. WR is being heralded as a genius manager and a saint. The former we will have to see about the latter puzzles me. WR is surely a symbol of the excesses of Derby and their spending. Every time you look at him surely you think 90k a week was madness. And symptomatic of where you are today.
I have never been a fan of Wayne Rooney, quite the opposite in fact. However I think claiming him to be a symbol of Derby's excesses is somewhat harsh in the circumstances.
Rooney could have walked away at any time, and in my opinion has done a superb job organising the players on the pitch when all around him the club was/is an utter madhouse. He has expressed a wish to manage them in League 1 and I hope the Board, (whoever that may be), show him the same loyalty if things don't go so well on the pitch.
Disagree. He's on £90k a week - a salary he simply wouldn't get elsewhere ever again for the rest of his life. He would've required a significant payout if sacked. If Derby stayed up, he's a hero. If Derby went down (as they have done), he goes out as a hero. If Derby liquidate, he goes down as a hero and potentially gets another Championship / League 1 club to manage.
It was a win-win-win scenario for Rooney to stay. It says absolutely nothing about his character, which is accurately displayed by the disgusting manner in which he treats his family (vast cheating evidence / embarrassing behaviour).
Rooney will be out of the door at Derby as soon as his contract is up.
While your general sentiments sort of stack up, your comment on Rooney's future wage doesn't.
How do you know he won't earn the same or more again?
He was rumoured to be wanted by Everton who pay Lampard 5m a year.
Even Hodgson is meant to be on 4.5m a year at Watford!
Get your calculator out and put it through your calculator.... lol. £4.5m is less than £90k a week (assuming both are gross). Rooney isn't walking into a top 8 Premier League (i.e. comparable to Everton) manager salary after Derby.
A few k out of 90 aside, he literally could have taken the exact job at Everton, no doubt on the same money as Lampard! (5m)
And again, like with Wing, you don't know anything of the sort for certain.
What’s the lowdown on Wing, @Malone. Have I missed something?
@Raminpeace said:
looks like I can't post in other threads so I'll comment here.... Great result against Plymouth, You should beat Wimbledon and Burton. That leaves Wendy as the hard one. Win that and get the right results elsewhere and the playoffs are there. Hope you do well.
How you feeling? Full of hope the miracle might happen? Realistic that miracles don’t happen? Optimistic for a massive turnaround of fortunes next season in L1 and looking forward to great things? Just happy to have a club? Not convinced the current bid will happen?
I've been saying for a long time that survival was not impossible but highly unlikley. Yesterday, relegation became a fact. The team has made a decent fist of it all season. Proud of what they've done. A high % won't be with us next season IMO.
Next season's expectations are midtable consolidation. Anything better would be a bonus. Our last stay in L1 lasted 2 seasons. I wouldn't complain if promotion came in the 2nd season again but I am very aware that a lot of clubs have spent more time than that there following relegation. City, forest, Leicester all spent a few seasons there. Sunderland, Ipswich have both been there a while. It's not a given.
Seeing the reaction to relegation puzzles me a little. WR is being heralded as a genius manager and a saint. The former we will have to see about the latter puzzles me. WR is surely a symbol of the excesses of Derby and their spending. Every time you look at him surely you think 90k a week was madness. And symptomatic of where you are today.
I have never been a fan of Wayne Rooney, quite the opposite in fact. However I think claiming him to be a symbol of Derby's excesses is somewhat harsh in the circumstances.
Rooney could have walked away at any time, and in my opinion has done a superb job organising the players on the pitch when all around him the club was/is an utter madhouse. He has expressed a wish to manage them in League 1 and I hope the Board, (whoever that may be), show him the same loyalty if things don't go so well on the pitch.
Disagree. He's on £90k a week - a salary he simply wouldn't get elsewhere ever again for the rest of his life. He would've required a significant payout if sacked. If Derby stayed up, he's a hero. If Derby went down (as they have done), he goes out as a hero. If Derby liquidate, he goes down as a hero and potentially gets another Championship / League 1 club to manage.
It was a win-win-win scenario for Rooney to stay. It says absolutely nothing about his character, which is accurately displayed by the disgusting manner in which he treats his family (vast cheating evidence / embarrassing behaviour).
Rooney will be out of the door at Derby as soon as his contract is up.
While your general sentiments sort of stack up, your comment on Rooney's future wage doesn't.
How do you know he won't earn the same or more again?
He was rumoured to be wanted by Everton who pay Lampard 5m a year.
Even Hodgson is meant to be on 4.5m a year at Watford!
Get your calculator out and put it through your calculator.... lol. £4.5m is less than £90k a week (assuming both are gross). Rooney isn't walking into a top 8 Premier League (i.e. comparable to Everton) manager salary after Derby.
A few k out of 90 aside, he literally could have taken the exact job at Everton, no doubt on the same money as Lampard! (5m)
And again, like with Wing, you don't know anything of the sort for certain.
What’s the lowdown on Wing, @Malone. Have I missed something?
There isn't one. But the gentleman I was responding to was acting like it'll be a given we can't afford him.
I jolly well hope we can. I’d been looking for information about the guy earlier today to try to get a handle on the question of whether he is likely to want to stay at Adams Park if we miss out on promotion. He’s moved around quite a lot over the last half a dozen years or so but he is older than I thought (27 in June) and seemed in a recent interview to be happily settled in. My guess is that he’ll probably be happy to stay if we (miraculously) achieve promotion but may feel that he is at a stage in his career when he needs to try to get a permanent move to an established Championship club.
The Derby fans are in a frenzy now with what new signings and how many they will be making. Looking forward to the realisation what they can ACTUALLY afford by respecting FFP
Not yet. But They do still have fans wanting 40 new players for first team, U23 and U18, expecting those outside of the first team not to want any money because they are “youth” players and think it’s all fine as the new owner says he wants to finance it all.
You know, like they haven’t learned anything about owners promising to fund everything in the world and then deciding not to, and how much of a world of pain it puts them in.
Price of football pod suggesting new preferred bidder is focusing on....how much debt he can avoid he having to pay back.
No real change since day 1 of admin. When HMRC are happy (be it accepting reduced payment or full) they can start to move forward, until then it's all still up in the air.
@StrongestTeam said:
Price of football pod suggesting new preferred bidder is focusing on....how much debt he can avoid he having to pay back.
No real change since day 1 of admin. When HMRC are happy (be it accepting reduced payment or full) they can start to move forward, until then it's all still up in the air.
Am I right in thinking that HMRC can accept delayed and deferred payment but if they agree a %age payment it’s a further points deduction?
They seemed to think they would ask for a deduction to be this season not next with almost no chance of it being accepted but that they will be let off a good deal of the debt from HMRC, we'll see if that happens and if so what terms it's under.
I would think any suppliers who are prepared to still work with them should be asking for cash in advance.
I for one am glad that as a result of this sorry affair here are now crystal clear guidelines from both the EFL and HMRC to ensure this never happens again.
I thought his salary was being covered by the sponsors tbh, not sure if that is confirmed. Drawing that kind of wage while the club shirks it's debts is a bit obscene. He has stood by them though and his reputation will be enhanced.
Spot on ST. When he signed, 32RED increased their sponsorship by the amount of his wages, he cost DCFC Ltd zero in wages. If he hadn't arrived at Derby the sponsorship money would not have increased.
@Erroll_Sims said:
Whilst no great fan of Rooney the man, especially given disclosures of his treatment of his wife & family, I understand from my contacts that he has been the only member of Derby's wider management structure to check on staff, put "an arm round their shoulders" etc. as well as the clear impact he has had on keeping not only the footballing but wider staff focused on trying to get the best out of a shit situation.
I genuinely believe that if he says he will stay, then he will do so
He has also paid for training equipment out of his back pocket and also paid some squad coach and hotel bills on away games.
@Erroll_Sims said:
Whilst no great fan of Rooney the man, especially given disclosures of his treatment of his wife & family, I understand from my contacts that he has been the only member of Derby's wider management structure to check on staff, put "an arm round their shoulders" etc. as well as the clear impact he has had on keeping not only the footballing but wider staff focused on trying to get the best out of a shit situation.
I genuinely believe that if he says he will stay, then he will do so
He has also paid for training equipment out of his back pocket and also paid some squad coach and hotel bills on away games.
As he should, Still obscene that he earns that much whilst people around him are getting stiffed or sacked. Donating a decent portion of it to creditors or colleagues could make him the kind of hero he is already being made out to be.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
The Derby fans are in a frenzy now with what new signings and how many they will be making. Looking forward to the realisation what they can ACTUALLY afford by respecting FFP
"Respecting FFP" and "Derby County" ??. Isn't that the official Oxford English definition of an oxymoron?
Much as I am glad Derby are relegated, they are still a symptom of something far greater that needs to be dealt with. Other clubs have flouted FFP and gotten away with it (some by getting into the PL before they could be disciplined).
I hope (but do not expect) there is a will to get at the root of all this. Get rid of parachute payments to relegated clubs, for starters, and share that money broadly across the EFL. Find ways to encourage clubs to be well run rather than riverboat gamblers.
@Shev said:
Much as I am glad Derby are relegated, they are still a symptom of something far greater that needs to be dealt with. Other clubs have flouted FFP and gotten away with it (some by getting into the PL before they could be disciplined).
I hope (but do not expect) there is a will to get at the root of all this. Get rid of parachute payments to relegated clubs, for starters, and share that money broadly across the EFL. Find ways to encourage clubs to be well run rather than riverboat gamblers.
The reality is that the new derby owners like many in the league structure will channel their efforts into how to circumnavigate FFP rules rather than building their club on a sustainable basis. They know what gets cheers ‘signs big name player’ and what gets boos ‘cutting cloth to meet our business model’.
The total lack of humility or contrition within their fan base is staggering. I mean Christ on a bike they sold a player they hadn’t even paid for !!!
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
The Derby fans are in a frenzy now with what new signings and how many they will be making. Looking forward to the realisation what they can ACTUALLY afford by respecting FFP
"Respecting FFP" and "Derby County" ??. Isn't that the official Oxford English definition of an oxymoron?
So an oxymoron has nothing to do with Oxford United fans who think they’re a big club.
I hope (but do not expect) there is a will to get at the root of all this. Get rid of parachute payments to relegated clubs, for starters, and share that money broadly across the EFL. Find ways to encourage clubs to be well run rather than riverboat gamblers.
Don't forget we got a parachute payment upon relegation from the Championship!
With regard to the Premier League the obscene wages are the problem not necessarily the parachute payments. Promoted clubs would either have to carry on paying Championship wages and thus guarantee relegation or gamble the Sky money on Premier wages in an effort to stay up. If they did the former you would end up with the same three clubs going up and down each year (it is already getting that way). If they did the latter and failed you would get MORE Derby like situations.
Watford have apparently put a provision in player contracts signed this season that their wages are halved upon relegation. If that became a requirement for ALL clubs that might actually help.
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
The Derby fans are in a frenzy now with what new signings and how many they will be making. Looking forward to the realisation what they can ACTUALLY afford by respecting FFP
"Respecting FFP" and "Derby County" ??. Isn't that the official Oxford English definition of an oxymoron?
So an oxymoron has nothing to do with Oxford United fans who think they’re a big club.
It is in every other dictionary; apparently it was redacted from the Oxford version. Can't think why.
Via the BBC, some gems from the administrators latest report
Joint administrators at Derby, Quantuma, have revealed that HM Revenue and Customs' total claim for unpaid taxes has risen to £36m from £28m.
Quantuma also accumulated costs of £2.1m in the first six months of administration.
Figures in the administrators' latest progress report, published on Companies House, also show that more than £950,000 has been spent on legal fees. Quantuma say the sum is "higher than anticipated" because of "protracted sale negotiations" and an appeal against the club's points deduction.
Derby were also lent £3.5m in November by finance company MSD to allow them to fulfil their fixtures this season, taking the total amount owed to the American firm to £24m.
Over the period in question, Derby had a £2.76m trading deficit, although this would have been worse without money received from MSD. Wages during that time were £5.95m.
Comments
They’d be 17th in the table if you add their 21 points back on.
I think a seige mentality can count for a lot in these situations. Certainly worth some additional points, obviously there is no way of proving this!
What’s the lowdown on Wing, @Malone. Have I missed something?
There isn't one. But the gentleman I was responding to was acting like it'll be a given we can't afford him.
I jolly well hope we can. I’d been looking for information about the guy earlier today to try to get a handle on the question of whether he is likely to want to stay at Adams Park if we miss out on promotion. He’s moved around quite a lot over the last half a dozen years or so but he is older than I thought (27 in June) and seemed in a recent interview to be happily settled in. My guess is that he’ll probably be happy to stay if we (miraculously) achieve promotion but may feel that he is at a stage in his career when he needs to try to get a permanent move to an established Championship club.
The Derby fans are in a frenzy now with what new signings and how many they will be making. Looking forward to the realisation what they can ACTUALLY afford by respecting FFP
Do they even have an owner yet?
HMRC.
Not yet. But They do still have fans wanting 40 new players for first team, U23 and U18, expecting those outside of the first team not to want any money because they are “youth” players and think it’s all fine as the new owner says he wants to finance it all.
You know, like they haven’t learned anything about owners promising to fund everything in the world and then deciding not to, and how much of a world of pain it puts them in.
Price of football pod suggesting new preferred bidder is focusing on....how much debt he can avoid he having to pay back.
No real change since day 1 of admin. When HMRC are happy (be it accepting reduced payment or full) they can start to move forward, until then it's all still up in the air.
Am I right in thinking that HMRC can accept delayed and deferred payment but if they agree a %age payment it’s a further points deduction?
I was under the impression that payments to HMRC can't be at a reduced rate, only deferred / staggered / delayed, but I'm not sure.
They seemed to think they would ask for a deduction to be this season not next with almost no chance of it being accepted but that they will be let off a good deal of the debt from HMRC, we'll see if that happens and if so what terms it's under.
I would think any suppliers who are prepared to still work with them should be asking for cash in advance.
I for one am glad that as a result of this sorry affair here are now crystal clear guidelines from both the EFL and HMRC to ensure this never happens again.
Spot on ST. When he signed, 32RED increased their sponsorship by the amount of his wages, he cost DCFC Ltd zero in wages. If he hadn't arrived at Derby the sponsorship money would not have increased.
He has also paid for training equipment out of his back pocket and also paid some squad coach and hotel bills on away games.
As he should, Still obscene that he earns that much whilst people around him are getting stiffed or sacked. Donating a decent portion of it to creditors or colleagues could make him the kind of hero he is already being made out to be.
"Respecting FFP" and "Derby County" ??. Isn't that the official Oxford English definition of an oxymoron?
Much as I am glad Derby are relegated, they are still a symptom of something far greater that needs to be dealt with. Other clubs have flouted FFP and gotten away with it (some by getting into the PL before they could be disciplined).
I hope (but do not expect) there is a will to get at the root of all this. Get rid of parachute payments to relegated clubs, for starters, and share that money broadly across the EFL. Find ways to encourage clubs to be well run rather than riverboat gamblers.
The reality is that the new derby owners like many in the league structure will channel their efforts into how to circumnavigate FFP rules rather than building their club on a sustainable basis. They know what gets cheers ‘signs big name player’ and what gets boos ‘cutting cloth to meet our business model’.
The total lack of humility or contrition within their fan base is staggering. I mean Christ on a bike they sold a player they hadn’t even paid for !!!
So an oxymoron has nothing to do with Oxford United fans who think they’re a big club.
Don't forget we got a parachute payment upon relegation from the Championship!
With regard to the Premier League the obscene wages are the problem not necessarily the parachute payments. Promoted clubs would either have to carry on paying Championship wages and thus guarantee relegation or gamble the Sky money on Premier wages in an effort to stay up. If they did the former you would end up with the same three clubs going up and down each year (it is already getting that way). If they did the latter and failed you would get MORE Derby like situations.
Watford have apparently put a provision in player contracts signed this season that their wages are halved upon relegation. If that became a requirement for ALL clubs that might actually help.
It is in every other dictionary; apparently it was redacted from the Oxford version. Can't think why.
The word Gullible was accidentally omitted from the latest edition of the Oxford Dictionary.
Via the BBC, some gems from the administrators latest report
Joint administrators at Derby, Quantuma, have revealed that HM Revenue and Customs' total claim for unpaid taxes has risen to £36m from £28m.
Quantuma also accumulated costs of £2.1m in the first six months of administration.
Figures in the administrators' latest progress report, published on Companies House, also show that more than £950,000 has been spent on legal fees. Quantuma say the sum is "higher than anticipated" because of "protracted sale negotiations" and an appeal against the club's points deduction.
Derby were also lent £3.5m in November by finance company MSD to allow them to fulfil their fixtures this season, taking the total amount owed to the American firm to £24m.
Over the period in question, Derby had a £2.76m trading deficit, although this would have been worse without money received from MSD. Wages during that time were £5.95m.
How much of a mug is this prospective buyer?
Why has it all gone quiet on our claim against DCFC?
No grounds for one, or has it been settled behind the scenes?
Isn't any buyer of a foptball club a mug? Perhaps Mike Ashley is the exception that proves the rule.
He just gives away mugs
Do we only have those two options to choose from?
I’d hazard a guess it’s not being talked about for neither of those reasons.
It will just fade away like Partygate.