I am reliably informed that our Glorious leader using taxpayer money to fund his own personal photographer to follow him about and record his every move might explain why the Bill knew who was at his party (ies) and were able to issue fines. More coming. But the British people don't care about all that breaking the law and lying to Parliament stuff...
@thecatwwfc said:
Why has it all gone quiet on our claim against DCFC?
No grounds for one, or has it been settled behind the scenes?
Do we only have those two options to choose from?
I’d hazard a guess it’s not being talked about for neither of those reasons.
I'm in the dark (hence my question) but perhaps you can either shed some light, or add to my potential reasons?
Nothing is settled yet. They've chosen someone to try and buy the club but he's now got hold of the books and will find them challenging at best. He's also got to try and persuade HMRC, MSD and Mel Morris to let him off debt, grant cheap rent etc, pay off a portion of other asks, negotiate league rules, actually complete the purchase and work out how to get them to subsequently break even or how to finance ongoing losses. He'll be quite busy until he comes up with answers or scuttles away blaming everyone else.
@Wendoverman said:
I am reliably informed that our Glorious leader using taxpayer money to fund his own personal photographer to follow him about and record his every move might explain why the Bill knew who was at his party (ies) and were able to issue fines. More coming. But the British people don't care about all that breaking the law and lying to Parliament stuff...
Will mostly stick to football but just Imagine going into politics for whatever reason and being tasked with coming up with convincing reasons why it doesn't matter that the Prime minister of the UK is a serial squirming liar who locked the whole country down: Schools, funeral's the lot, and then sat about while his office carried on as normal - karaokeing and bringing in booze in suitcases.
@Erroll_Sims said:
Via the BBC, some gems from the administrators latest report
Joint administrators at Derby, Quantuma, have revealed that HM Revenue and Customs' total claim for unpaid taxes has risen to £36m from £28m.
Quantuma also accumulated costs of £2.1m in the first six months of administration.
Figures in the administrators' latest progress report, published on Companies House, also show that more than £950,000 has been spent on legal fees. Quantuma say the sum is "higher than anticipated" because of "protracted sale negotiations" and an appeal against the club's points deduction.
Derby were also lent £3.5m in November by finance company MSD to allow them to fulfil their fixtures this season, taking the total amount owed to the American firm to £24m.
Over the period in question, Derby had a £2.76m trading deficit, although this would have been worse without money received from MSD. Wages during that time were £5.95m.
One of the astonishing things I see here is that there were £6m of wages in the period and therefore by my maths, £12m a year. I would be astonished if this wasn’t significantly higher than our wage budget in the championship.
And yet Rooney is extolled as some hero for the job that he has done. I acknowledge that he has done a great job for rallying the troops in a difficult circumstance but he still has significant player resources available.
There are other clubs such as Luton who have a similar budget who are vastly outperforming Derby. I don’t particularly like them or the Reverend but far more focus should be put on what they have done (and what GA achieved last year) rather than what has been ‘achieved’ at Derby
Agree with the above. Talksport callers suggesting Rooney is MOTY. Some football fans are so fickle but it underlines the fact that people like underdog stories. Derby are only underdogs by their own doing so should never be given the time of day and credit that they've received.
Luton and Forest have defied all odds. Would be madness to be overlooked.
Don't like Luton, but amazing job there. Credit where credit is due and all that. I am hoping Forest win the playoffs (too many Forest fans on here I genuinely like, and their forum has given me many laughs over Derby) but if Luton went up it would be quite funny to see Kenilworth Road as a PL ground.
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
@glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
Wether it ends up being Ashley or Kirchner or some Morris puppet they are clearly going through a massive low balling and begging process and this seems to have always been plan A, B and C.
Tbh they have few other options now. For an interested party to come along and actually pay off their debts and fund them going forward would cost so much it's no longer even remotely viable.
The admins chased staying up despite it being highly unlikely and should have slashed costs and sold off much more by now, repaying debt. Too busy wheeling out Rooney to beg for sympathy. While some more players can now walk for free any transfer fees they get will be reduced by the level of desperation and the fact they are now in L1.
@glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
@glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have a link?
Keiran Macquire mentioned it on his podcast but I think it was more of a "we understand from people close to the situation" than a firm ask.
@glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have a link?
No but I was told yesterday that it was in the online pages of the Daily Mail.
Looking forward to Derby being presented with the EFLs community club of the year tonight having been shortlisted. Sure they do great work in the community but not paying your taxes, stiffing local businesses and leaving fans to pay the St.Johns ambulance bill should rule you out.
@StrongestTeam said:
Looking forward to Derby being presented with the EFLs community club of the year tonight having been shortlisted. Sure they do great work in the community but not paying your taxes, stiffing local businesses and leaving fans to pay the St.Johns ambulance bill should rule you out.
Seriously??? Community Club of the Year? The EFL really are fcuking mental some times
Our former owner vastly overspent and ran when the going got tough. No getting away from that. Over 6 years he spent £450M or thereabouts on income of about half that figure. That is not sustainable and should never have been allowed to happen. The club is not an innocent party as its employees should have stood up to Mel but they didn't. The fans enjoyed the ride but the current nightmare is the price. Pearce being the biggest culprit yet he is still in situ helping to run the club in his CEO role and also advising Quantuma. With any luck, the new Laws emanating from the fan-led inquiry should be on the statute books by the end of next season. Also, the EFL are supposed to be bringing in new rules on keeping a tighter rein on where clubs are financially and thereby ensuring this situation never rears its ugly head again. Hopefully the new EFL rules together with the proposed new Laws will see more disciplined financial "housekeeping" by all clubs in future.> @glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
Latest points deduction? There isn't one, is there? There will only be one if Kirchner fails to meet the minimum payment to creditors as required by the EFL. He says he's offered more than the minimum so no further points deduction that I'm aware of. If there is one would you be so kind as to tell me how many points and what it's supposedly for?
@glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
Wether it ends up being Ashley or Kirchner or some Morris puppet they are clearly going through a massive low balling and begging process and this seems to have always been plan A, B and C.
Tbh they have few other options now. For an interested party to come along and actually pay off their debts and fund them going forward would cost so much it's no longer even remotely viable.
The admins chased staying up despite it being highly unlikely and should have slashed costs and sold off much more by now, repaying debt. Too busy wheeling out Rooney to beg for sympathy. While some more players can now walk for free any transfer fees they get will be reduced by the level of desperation and the fact they are now in L1.
We have 5 players who are not out of contract this summer. At the moment we may not offer them new contracts. The club has options it could trigger with 2 of the 5 players, we're not allowed to trigger those options. We may not pay transfer or loan fees. We have a wages cap. Kirchner's business plan was submitted to the EFL over the weekend. Until that plan has been approved, we are in limbo. Once approved we can then start moves to exit admin and ascertain what limitations/sanctions the EFL wants in place for next season. Only then can we start to plan pre season, start talking to players we want etc.
As for paying off debts in full, that happens in what % of Ltd companies exiting administration? Not nice, agreed, but football clubs are businesses and, like all businesses, will get liquidated if the proposed new owner offers less than liquidation would deliver to creditors. Rams fans didn't make the UK Insolvency Laws nor did we make EFL Insolvency Rules. Rams fans can't afford to buy the club, at least not for enough that would avoid liquidation. As I've said in previous posts, midtable would be excellent next season. Beggars can't be choosers. Anything better and I'd be ecstatic.
As I said in my previous post just above this one, new EFL Rules and proposed new UK Law should prevent anything like this happening again. If that happens, at least something good will have come out of the whole **** show .
Also dont forget that HMRC rank alongside football creditors and are expected to be settled in full.
This means to meet all requirements Kirchener is likely putting up somewhere between £50-55m, which is a huge over valuation for a L1 club which doesnt own its stadium or training complex.
The HMRC debt is now a whopping £36m
Football creditors estimated at £8m ish
Non football creditors around the same meaning they have to settle approx £1.5-2m
This is excluding the £24m to MDS (I am guessing they will come to an accomodation with Kirchener and likely transfer the loan to him) &
Admisinstrator fees in excess of £2m and legal fees close to £1m
Of course Kirchener also has to show that over and above the purchase price he has sufficient funds to cover the first years running expenses - probably close to £10m.
Yet again I am scratching my head at how it got to this stage, how anyone can pay this for a club with almost zero tangible assets and how no one notice Morris had on the emperors new clothes.
Comments
I'm in the dark (hence my question) but perhaps you can either shed some light, or add to my potential reasons?
Being ignored by the administrators
Barefaced lying is the new truth.
Except "partygate" simply won't fade away!
I am reliably informed that our Glorious leader using taxpayer money to fund his own personal photographer to follow him about and record his every move might explain why the Bill knew who was at his party (ies) and were able to issue fines. More coming. But the British people don't care about all that breaking the law and lying to Parliament stuff...
Nothing is settled yet. They've chosen someone to try and buy the club but he's now got hold of the books and will find them challenging at best. He's also got to try and persuade HMRC, MSD and Mel Morris to let him off debt, grant cheap rent etc, pay off a portion of other asks, negotiate league rules, actually complete the purchase and work out how to get them to subsequently break even or how to finance ongoing losses. He'll be quite busy until he comes up with answers or scuttles away blaming everyone else.
Will mostly stick to football but just Imagine going into politics for whatever reason and being tasked with coming up with convincing reasons why it doesn't matter that the Prime minister of the UK is a serial squirming liar who locked the whole country down: Schools, funeral's the lot, and then sat about while his office carried on as normal - karaokeing and bringing in booze in suitcases.
One of the astonishing things I see here is that there were £6m of wages in the period and therefore by my maths, £12m a year. I would be astonished if this wasn’t significantly higher than our wage budget in the championship.
And yet Rooney is extolled as some hero for the job that he has done. I acknowledge that he has done a great job for rallying the troops in a difficult circumstance but he still has significant player resources available.
There are other clubs such as Luton who have a similar budget who are vastly outperforming Derby. I don’t particularly like them or the Reverend but far more focus should be put on what they have done (and what GA achieved last year) rather than what has been ‘achieved’ at Derby
Agree with the above. Talksport callers suggesting Rooney is MOTY. Some football fans are so fickle but it underlines the fact that people like underdog stories. Derby are only underdogs by their own doing so should never be given the time of day and credit that they've received.
Luton and Forest have defied all odds. Would be madness to be overlooked.
Don't like Luton, but amazing job there. Credit where credit is due and all that. I am hoping Forest win the playoffs (too many Forest fans on here I genuinely like, and their forum has given me many laughs over Derby) but if Luton went up it would be quite funny to see Kenilworth Road as a PL ground.
Genuinely, would Luton be able to play Premier League games at Kenilworth Road?
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
Wether it ends up being Ashley or Kirchner or some Morris puppet they are clearly going through a massive low balling and begging process and this seems to have always been plan A, B and C.
Tbh they have few other options now. For an interested party to come along and actually pay off their debts and fund them going forward would cost so much it's no longer even remotely viable.
The admins chased staying up despite it being highly unlikely and should have slashed costs and sold off much more by now, repaying debt. Too busy wheeling out Rooney to beg for sympathy. While some more players can now walk for free any transfer fees they get will be reduced by the level of desperation and the fact they are now in L1.
I wouldn't be surprised. Do you have a link?
Keiran Macquire mentioned it on his podcast but I think it was more of a "we understand from people close to the situation" than a firm ask.
No but I was told yesterday that it was in the online pages of the Daily Mail.
Fair enough - as you say, audacious, but nothing surprises me with them anymore.
If Derby desperately want a points deduction now, I hope the EFL delay the decision to juuuust after the start of next season, when it is too late.
There's usually a cut off for deductions applying to the current season isn't there?
Used to be like the going into administration points deduction situation.
You can't have them when you've already gone down!
Why, I thought a precedent had been set that Derby were allowed to negotiate the terms of any points deduction!
Looking forward to Derby being presented with the EFLs community club of the year tonight having been shortlisted. Sure they do great work in the community but not paying your taxes, stiffing local businesses and leaving fans to pay the St.Johns ambulance bill should rule you out.
Seriously??? Community Club of the Year? The EFL really are fcuking mental some times
Right words, wrong sequence.
Derby County, "Seriously fcuking their Community this Year" Club
Looks like Wimbledon won it, must take better care of the locals than their visitors.
Was this the EFL Irony Awards?
Our former owner vastly overspent and ran when the going got tough. No getting away from that. Over 6 years he spent £450M or thereabouts on income of about half that figure. That is not sustainable and should never have been allowed to happen. The club is not an innocent party as its employees should have stood up to Mel but they didn't. The fans enjoyed the ride but the current nightmare is the price. Pearce being the biggest culprit yet he is still in situ helping to run the club in his CEO role and also advising Quantuma. With any luck, the new Laws emanating from the fan-led inquiry should be on the statute books by the end of next season. Also, the EFL are supposed to be bringing in new rules on keeping a tighter rein on where clubs are financially and thereby ensuring this situation never rears its ugly head again. Hopefully the new EFL rules together with the proposed new Laws will see more disciplined financial "housekeeping" by all clubs in future.> @glasshalffull said:
Have people seen the story claiming that Derby have apparently asked for their latest points deduction to be applied this season rather than next? If true, that’s staggering audacity to put it mildly.
Latest points deduction? There isn't one, is there? There will only be one if Kirchner fails to meet the minimum payment to creditors as required by the EFL. He says he's offered more than the minimum so no further points deduction that I'm aware of. If there is one would you be so kind as to tell me how many points and what it's supposedly for?
We have 5 players who are not out of contract this summer. At the moment we may not offer them new contracts. The club has options it could trigger with 2 of the 5 players, we're not allowed to trigger those options. We may not pay transfer or loan fees. We have a wages cap. Kirchner's business plan was submitted to the EFL over the weekend. Until that plan has been approved, we are in limbo. Once approved we can then start moves to exit admin and ascertain what limitations/sanctions the EFL wants in place for next season. Only then can we start to plan pre season, start talking to players we want etc.
As for paying off debts in full, that happens in what % of Ltd companies exiting administration? Not nice, agreed, but football clubs are businesses and, like all businesses, will get liquidated if the proposed new owner offers less than liquidation would deliver to creditors. Rams fans didn't make the UK Insolvency Laws nor did we make EFL Insolvency Rules. Rams fans can't afford to buy the club, at least not for enough that would avoid liquidation. As I've said in previous posts, midtable would be excellent next season. Beggars can't be choosers. Anything better and I'd be ecstatic.
As I said in my previous post just above this one, new EFL Rules and proposed new UK Law should prevent anything like this happening again. If that happens, at least something good will have come out of the whole **** show .
Has the football creditors rule gone then, or have they paid them in full?
No & No
Also dont forget that HMRC rank alongside football creditors and are expected to be settled in full.
This means to meet all requirements Kirchener is likely putting up somewhere between £50-55m, which is a huge over valuation for a L1 club which doesnt own its stadium or training complex.
The HMRC debt is now a whopping £36m
Football creditors estimated at £8m ish
Non football creditors around the same meaning they have to settle approx £1.5-2m
This is excluding the £24m to MDS (I am guessing they will come to an accomodation with Kirchener and likely transfer the loan to him) &
Admisinstrator fees in excess of £2m and legal fees close to £1m
Of course Kirchener also has to show that over and above the purchase price he has sufficient funds to cover the first years running expenses - probably close to £10m.
Yet again I am scratching my head at how it got to this stage, how anyone can pay this for a club with almost zero tangible assets and how no one notice Morris had on the emperors new clothes.