I'm very pleased to see that there is some chance of Derby avoiding liquidation, it would have been a shame for their fans and it gives some hopes to the myriad people who are owed various sums that they might see some recompense, ourselves included.
What most recent posters seem to be forgetting is that HMRC's debt is treated as preferential and ranks alongside "football debts" (technically it actually ranks ahead) so the FA/EFL expectation is that HMRC get paid 100% too...
Consequently there is no way that Kirchner or any other bidder is going to be offering £50m plus for DCFC so expect them to be hit with at least an additional 15pt penalty. I suspect they will time the purchase so that the penalty hits this season rather than start L1 on -15pts.
To be honest I am now at the stage that I am beginning to feel it would be in football's best interest for DCFC to liquidate & a supporters owned phoenix club to start again in tier 9/10. Why? Because it would mean Morris would be saddled with a stadium with no possible tenants & a £20m debt to MSD - perhaps this prospect will get him to get his shit together before it happens, but given his form it won't and it will all be someone elses fault.
Seriously India Willoughby is a trans activist & rabble rousing piece of sh!t who spends most of h(is)er time on twitter calling gender critical women much worse then Kirchner's comments above
@Erroll_Sims said:
Im not defending KC's comments they are indeed foul & totally unacceptable any time
My issue is the way IW & a minority of TRA's go about their advocacy, not the advocacy itself.
Nobody cares who she is, it's not relevant, these comments were always going to be waved around when discovered as they are abhorrent, suggestions online a Forset fan probably did the initial share round not that it particularly matters.
Is it just me or is this discussion becoming somewhat obtuse? And what’s all this KC, IW and TRA about? Perhaps I should mind my own business and stay away from this thread. Trouble is it’s necessary to dip into it from time to time in case there’s news of our worthy chairman’s claim for compensation.
Chris Kirchner (potential buyer of DCFC)
India Willoughby (who posted on Twitter about CK)
Trans rights activist (someone who promotes the belief that trans people deserve to be treated with respect)
Reading's win over Stoke has made things even more improbable. Kirchner named as preferred buyer this morning. No mention of the size of the bid or whether it would meet the EFL minimum to avoid a 15 point deduction. I hope it is large enough to avoid the -15 or next season will be another long, long fight against relegation. This time to L2. It is what it is. IMO the only hope is that the current situation plus the naming of a PB will have the same "bounce" effect on the team as new managers often do. In reality, it will be L1 next season, hopefully starting on 0 points. I'm still flying back for the last 2 games of the season. Once a Ram, always a Ram. DTID.
With regard to Rooney's "40 player" quote. As things stand Rooney says we have 3 1st team players next season for the 1st team and the U23s. 40 for the 2 sides is about right in total. He really needs 20 to 25 new players to run both sides, the rest coming from the academy, to be able to run both sides under the current EFL sanctions. We can't pay loan fees or transfer fees and there is a wage cap. We have 7 or 8 players out of contract who we can't offer a new deal. 2 more whose contracts run out but the club does have an option to extend for a year. Those 2 options can't be used either. We won't be paying millions for players as we aren't allowed to pay anything. The EFL isn't allowing us to make the same set of mistakes. Quite right too.
@Raminpeace said:
We have 7 or 8 players out of contract who we can't offer a new deal. 2 more whose contracts run out but the club does have an option to extend for a year.
Now, I'm not too bad at maths, so I hope I've got this right. I make it that that would mean you need 9 or 10 new players, to maintain the size of squad that you currently can't afford. Wayne is saying he wants at least 30 more than that.
Just so you know, when we were in financial difficulties, we shut down the youth academy, releasing a whole bunch of very talented youngsters, and trimmed the first team squad back to its bare minimum to the point where there were games where we only had 3 subs. We paid our taxes and didn't put any local businesses out of operation.
I hope it is large enough to avoid the -15 or next season will be another long, long fight against relegation.
That sums up the concern as I understand it from Derby fans. I've invited yourself on several occasions (and one or two Derby fans who I know personally) to acknowledge the damage Derby have done to many different parties, but it is only this 15 point deduction which causes them to desire any recompense being seen by anyone. They'd rather the money went to the first team, U23s and a fully accredited youth set up.
Will be interesting to see if Kirchner passes the EFL fit & proper owner tests. Can you imagine if they say no.
Part of me wonders if the administrators are deliberately choosing him as they know he might get rejected, so they can blame the EFL rather than themselves...only time will tell.
@Raminpeace
If we get up I feel confident we’ll make a fist of it. The getting up bit will be the really hard bit. We’ve been back to our best for the last six or seven games and if it hadn’t been for a six or seven game glitch earlier this year we would be pushing for automatic. We’re finishing this season even more strongly than we finished our Championship season. And all on an absolute shoestring of a budget and (to the best of my knowledge) not owing a penny to anyone.
We have very committed and responsible owners, a player selection system which has led to a superb togetherness and team spirit in a relatively small first team squad and, perhaps above all, an excellent management team. We are both very lucky and, I like to think, an example which some EFL clubs would do well to follow.
Love that news of the ‘takeover’ has triggered their fans into wish lists of mega signings.
Yeah ***k the poor local business who might be lucky to get 25p in the £ and go out of business as a result we can sign a new player!
@Raminpeace said:
We have 7 or 8 players out of contract who we can't offer a new deal. 2 more whose contracts run out but the club does have an option to extend for a year.
Now, I'm not too bad at maths, so I hope I've got this right. I make it that that would mean you need 9 or 10 new players, to maintain the size of squad that you currently can't afford. Wayne is saying he wants at least 30 more than that.
Just so you know, when we were in financial difficulties, we shut down the youth academy, releasing a whole bunch of very talented youngsters, and trimmed the first team squad back to its bare minimum to the point where there were games where we only had 3 subs. We paid our taxes and didn't put any local businesses out of operation.
Adding to this.
We were in such dire straits that the wage budget had been trimmed to 1.5-1.7 million for the 2019/20 season in Lge1, incidentally about what it costs you to pay Bielik a year. At pre season training in early July we did not even have enough players to have a 5 aside match.
The club at this point had a total of nine players across all age groups and the first team squad.
Unlike Derby County we cut our cloth accordingly and paid our bills. While you will be relegated after cheating the system, we were promoted in 2019/20 after a lot of hard work and much of it by unpaid volunteers.
@Raminpeace said:
We have 7 or 8 players out of contract who we can't offer a new deal. 2 more whose contracts run out but the club does have an option to extend for a year.
Now, I'm not too bad at maths, so I hope I've got this right. I make it that that would mean you need 9 or 10 new players, to maintain the size of squad that you currently can't afford. Wayne is saying he wants at least 30 more than that.
Just so you know, when we were in financial difficulties, we shut down the youth academy, releasing a whole bunch of very talented youngsters, and trimmed the first team squad back to its bare minimum to the point where there were games where we only had 3 subs. We paid our taxes and didn't put any local businesses out of operation.
Adding to this.
We were in such dire straits that the wage budget had been trimmed to 1.5-1.7 million for the 2019/20 season in Lge1, incidentally about what it costs you to pay Bielik a year. At pre season training in early July we did not even have enough players to have a 5 aside match.
The club at this point had a total of nine players across all age groups and the first team squad.
Unlike Derby County we cut our cloth accordingly and paid our bills. While you will be relegated after cheating the system, we were promoted in 2019/20 after a lot of hard work and much of it by unpaid volunteers.
Who are the parasites here?
This is all good, they'll get to survive, probably in L1 so they can take our names out of their mouths and we might even get a small payout but they'll continue to demand big signings and ensure they become Sunderland V2 or frustratingly nestle in behind the likes of Pompey and Charlton and Ipswich discussing how big they used to be.
It may have been forced on him but Ainsworths dedication to getting the right signings only and real value is such a plus. You can see every week other clubs pissing away the money that we don't have.
Next season the Derby forum will be full of posts on the injustice of playing in this "shit league" and having to deal with all the "shithousery" of teams like Wycombe.
@mooneyman said:
Next season the Derby forum will be full of posts on the injustice of playing in this "shit league" and having to deal with all the "shithousery" of teams like Wycombe.
Do you think that we will never know the outcome of our case with Derby?
I mean, seen as we don't even get to find out if one of our players has broken his leg in 59 places, will we ever know the outcome of our claim against them?
People say you should never judge a book by it's cover but I am happy to make an exception with the photograph of Chris Kirchner... he looks entirely trustworthy to me.
I'd be far happier if part of any rescue plan involved paying everyone, except Mel, what they are owed, in full somewhere down the line. Give them 25% down and the rest over time. In any company insolvency that doesn't happen. The administrators take the deal which offers creditors the most. It looks like Kirchner's offer is a) the largest they've had and b) offers creditors more than they would get if the club was liquidated. It's not nice but it's what happens with insolvency cases whether it be a shoe shop, a chicken farm, a distillery.... or a football club. Maybe the way out is to stop allowing FCs to be Limited Companies. If the sounds emanating from Westminster are correct then the new regulations which will soon become Law following the "fan led review", Mel Morris 2.0 wouldn't be allowed to do what Mel has done to many creditors and to the fans. That we were in trouble financially hit home when Mel bought the ground for £80M and we ended up making a £14M profit that season. That meant we'd have made a £66M loss without the sale. Huge red flag. Mel deserves nothing from the whole business and I hope he gives the club the ground back for nowt, but he won't. He'll hold out for £20M so he can pay back MSD what he borrowed from them.
Comments
I'm very pleased to see that there is some chance of Derby avoiding liquidation, it would have been a shame for their fans and it gives some hopes to the myriad people who are owed various sums that they might see some recompense, ourselves included.
Uh oh
What most recent posters seem to be forgetting is that HMRC's debt is treated as preferential and ranks alongside "football debts" (technically it actually ranks ahead) so the FA/EFL expectation is that HMRC get paid 100% too...
Consequently there is no way that Kirchner or any other bidder is going to be offering £50m plus for DCFC so expect them to be hit with at least an additional 15pt penalty. I suspect they will time the purchase so that the penalty hits this season rather than start L1 on -15pts.
To be honest I am now at the stage that I am beginning to feel it would be in football's best interest for DCFC to liquidate & a supporters owned phoenix club to start again in tier 9/10. Why? Because it would mean Morris would be saddled with a stadium with no possible tenants & a £20m debt to MSD - perhaps this prospect will get him to get his shit together before it happens, but given his form it won't and it will all be someone elses fault.
Seriously India Willoughby is a trans activist & rabble rousing piece of sh!t who spends most of h(is)er time on twitter calling gender critical women much worse then Kirchner's comments above
The comments are scummy even if 11 years ago
You say trans activist as if it’s a bad thing.
Im not defending KC's comments they are indeed foul & totally unacceptable any time
My issue is the way IW & a minority of TRA's go about their advocacy, not the advocacy itself.
Nobody cares who she is, it's not relevant, these comments were always going to be waved around when discovered as they are abhorrent, suggestions online a Forset fan probably did the initial share round not that it particularly matters.
Is it just me or is this discussion becoming somewhat obtuse? And what’s all this KC, IW and TRA about? Perhaps I should mind my own business and stay away from this thread. Trouble is it’s necessary to dip into it from time to time in case there’s news of our worthy chairman’s claim for compensation.
Chris Kirchner (potential buyer of DCFC)
India Willoughby (who posted on Twitter about CK)
Trans rights activist (someone who promotes the belief that trans people deserve to be treated with respect)
Thanks @Chris . Enthralling stuff.
A lot of people in the replies seem to think 11 years ago was the mid seventies.
Reading's win over Stoke has made things even more improbable. Kirchner named as preferred buyer this morning. No mention of the size of the bid or whether it would meet the EFL minimum to avoid a 15 point deduction. I hope it is large enough to avoid the -15 or next season will be another long, long fight against relegation. This time to L2. It is what it is. IMO the only hope is that the current situation plus the naming of a PB will have the same "bounce" effect on the team as new managers often do. In reality, it will be L1 next season, hopefully starting on 0 points. I'm still flying back for the last 2 games of the season. Once a Ram, always a Ram. DTID.
With regard to Rooney's "40 player" quote. As things stand Rooney says we have 3 1st team players next season for the 1st team and the U23s. 40 for the 2 sides is about right in total. He really needs 20 to 25 new players to run both sides, the rest coming from the academy, to be able to run both sides under the current EFL sanctions. We can't pay loan fees or transfer fees and there is a wage cap. We have 7 or 8 players out of contract who we can't offer a new deal. 2 more whose contracts run out but the club does have an option to extend for a year. Those 2 options can't be used either. We won't be paying millions for players as we aren't allowed to pay anything. The EFL isn't allowing us to make the same set of mistakes. Quite right too.
Can you make a fist of going up? I hope you do.
If you can't afford an U23s team then don't have one. Paying your debts should be a priority before the luxury of a youth team.
Now, I'm not too bad at maths, so I hope I've got this right. I make it that that would mean you need 9 or 10 new players, to maintain the size of squad that you currently can't afford. Wayne is saying he wants at least 30 more than that.
Just so you know, when we were in financial difficulties, we shut down the youth academy, releasing a whole bunch of very talented youngsters, and trimmed the first team squad back to its bare minimum to the point where there were games where we only had 3 subs. We paid our taxes and didn't put any local businesses out of operation.
I hope it is large enough to avoid the -15 or next season will be another long, long fight against relegation.
That sums up the concern as I understand it from Derby fans. I've invited yourself on several occasions (and one or two Derby fans who I know personally) to acknowledge the damage Derby have done to many different parties, but it is only this 15 point deduction which causes them to desire any recompense being seen by anyone. They'd rather the money went to the first team, U23s and a fully accredited youth set up.
Will be interesting to see if Kirchner passes the EFL fit & proper owner tests. Can you imagine if they say no.
Part of me wonders if the administrators are deliberately choosing him as they know he might get rejected, so they can blame the EFL rather than themselves...only time will tell.
@Raminpeace
If we get up I feel confident we’ll make a fist of it. The getting up bit will be the really hard bit. We’ve been back to our best for the last six or seven games and if it hadn’t been for a six or seven game glitch earlier this year we would be pushing for automatic. We’re finishing this season even more strongly than we finished our Championship season. And all on an absolute shoestring of a budget and (to the best of my knowledge) not owing a penny to anyone.
We have very committed and responsible owners, a player selection system which has led to a superb togetherness and team spirit in a relatively small first team squad and, perhaps above all, an excellent management team. We are both very lucky and, I like to think, an example which some EFL clubs would do well to follow.
Love that news of the ‘takeover’ has triggered their fans into wish lists of mega signings.
Yeah ***k the poor local business who might be lucky to get 25p in the £ and go out of business as a result we can sign a new player!
Any supporter of football > @drcongo said:
Adding to this.
We were in such dire straits that the wage budget had been trimmed to 1.5-1.7 million for the 2019/20 season in Lge1, incidentally about what it costs you to pay Bielik a year. At pre season training in early July we did not even have enough players to have a 5 aside match.
The club at this point had a total of nine players across all age groups and the first team squad.
Unlike Derby County we cut our cloth accordingly and paid our bills. While you will be relegated after cheating the system, we were promoted in 2019/20 after a lot of hard work and much of it by unpaid volunteers.
Who are the parasites here?
This is all good, they'll get to survive, probably in L1 so they can take our names out of their mouths and we might even get a small payout but they'll continue to demand big signings and ensure they become Sunderland V2 or frustratingly nestle in behind the likes of Pompey and Charlton and Ipswich discussing how big they used to be.
It may have been forced on him but Ainsworths dedication to getting the right signings only and real value is such a plus. You can see every week other clubs pissing away the money that we don't have.
Next season the Derby forum will be full of posts on the injustice of playing in this "shit league" and having to deal with all the "shithousery" of teams like Wycombe.
Hope not! Oh ye of little faith.
Do you think that we will never know the outcome of our case with Derby?
I mean, seen as we don't even get to find out if one of our players has broken his leg in 59 places, will we ever know the outcome of our claim against them?
It's all gone a bit quiet.
Clearly going to end well.
Derby fans being indignant over his financial deception would be quite the ironic sight, should it come to it.
People say you should never judge a book by it's cover but I am happy to make an exception with the photograph of Chris Kirchner... he looks entirely trustworthy to me.
Always room for one more on Planet Football.
I'd be far happier if part of any rescue plan involved paying everyone, except Mel, what they are owed, in full somewhere down the line. Give them 25% down and the rest over time. In any company insolvency that doesn't happen. The administrators take the deal which offers creditors the most. It looks like Kirchner's offer is a) the largest they've had and b) offers creditors more than they would get if the club was liquidated. It's not nice but it's what happens with insolvency cases whether it be a shoe shop, a chicken farm, a distillery.... or a football club. Maybe the way out is to stop allowing FCs to be Limited Companies. If the sounds emanating from Westminster are correct then the new regulations which will soon become Law following the "fan led review", Mel Morris 2.0 wouldn't be allowed to do what Mel has done to many creditors and to the fans. That we were in trouble financially hit home when Mel bought the ground for £80M and we ended up making a £14M profit that season. That meant we'd have made a £66M loss without the sale. Huge red flag. Mel deserves nothing from the whole business and I hope he gives the club the ground back for nowt, but he won't. He'll hold out for £20M so he can pay back MSD what he borrowed from them.
PS - still want you to win the playoffs even thought that means we won't play each other in the League next season