@chairboyscentral said:
Even if that's true, why would we pay a fee for someone who's not an upgrade on what we've got? Especially when we can go out and get a loanee or maybe Stockdale.
Are you sure Ingram isn't an upgrade?
I'm genuinely not sure.
@Malone It's been a long time since I've seen him play - save for that one game on loan with us - but it would seem unusual to pay (probably a fairly considerable) fee for someone who's not even semi-proven in the Championship. If we're going to bring in a 'keeper whose ability to play at that level we're unsure of, surely it makes more sense to go for a loanee?
Not that simple, fees are often waved if the club don't want the player anymore, who knows what Stockdale or loan keepers want for wages, wouldn't be surprised if Gaz and Dobbo rated Ingram highly and thought they were the people to get the best out of him. On the other hand ex players are allowed to move on without it being back to us.
Would be amazed if Hull, with their owner, didn't hold out for something. Won't Ingram want guaranteed starts by now anyway? I'm not sure we could give him that.
@chairboyscentral said:
Even if that's true, why would we pay a fee for someone who's not an upgrade on what we've got? Especially when we can go out and get a loanee or maybe Stockdale.
Are you sure Ingram isn't an upgrade?
I'm genuinely not sure.
They both have the same weaknesses. Ingram has played 11 Championship games in the last 4 years. At least Rocky has been playing regularly, so I can't really see Ingram is an upgrade.
I would prefer Stockdale if he is in reasonable physical condition.
@mooneyman Out of interest, what would you say Rocky's weaknesses are apart from his lack of command? He seems to have improved quite a bit in terms of parrying the ball to the side rather than straight out in front of him - which used to be a weak spot of his.
Stockdale would certainly have the highest pedigree, but it was a little worrying how he looked a bit unfit - which for a footballer should be the minimum.
I can see how outfield players need to compete with different types of players but what gives a goalie that extra edge?
For me I'd be more comfortable with Ingram or Stockdale (or Blackman) but Allsop is ok.
Are there still rules around fielding youth players and if so would resigning Ingram help?
Let's ask you the question in reverse - what makes you more comfortable with those players you'd favour over Allsop?
Chances are it's those aspects that make a higher tier keeper.
Does Ingram come off his line (copyright two years of the Gasroom) nowadays? I seem to remember 'He's a good shot stopper but...' from the olden days ?
@Wendoverman said:
Does Ingram come off his line (copyright two years of the Gasroom) nowadays? I seem to remember 'He's a good shot stopper but...' from the olden days ?
I always wonder about the "good shot stopper" line.
Are any pro keepers NOT good shot stoppers?
I can see how outfield players need to compete with different types of players but what gives a goalie that extra edge?
For me I'd be more comfortable with Ingram or Stockdale (or Blackman) but Allsop is ok.
Are there still rules around fielding youth players and if so would resigning Ingram help?
Let's ask you the question in reverse - what makes you more comfortable with those players you'd favour over Allsop?
Chances are it's those aspects that make a higher tier keeper.
Ok. Got it. Me feeling more comfortable is the key.
How do I know if the keeper I feel most comfortable with is Championship standard though?
In all seriousness I would like a keeper who comes and gets crosses more often.
@chairboyscentral said: @mooneyman Out of interest, what would you say Rocky's weaknesses are apart from his lack of command? He seems to have improved quite a bit in terms of parrying the ball to the side rather than straight out in front of him - which used to be a weak spot of his.
In my opinion, failure to command your area is the most critical shortcoming of a keeper. This was highlighted when Jamal Blackman was here as he took a lot of pressure off the central defenders. I think Rocky tends to panic at times, although the instances of this seemed to reduce last season.
I do wonder whether we have adapted to and trained around Rocky not commanding the area with him being actively discouraged from doing so now.
At least if as a defender you always know it is your job to defend on that area you are focussed on that and not having to think about whether it might be the goalkeepers to deal with
Agreed, When Scott Brown was between the sticks, the defence eventually learnt, he would come for almost nothing
But you had the bizarre scenario of players having to head away from under their own crossbar.
Curtis Anderson sounds like an interesting prospect with obvious potential to add to the club coffers in a few years time. I wonder if he was the ‘keeper who I surmised was one of the five second half trialists at Southampton?
I have just spoken to my Charlton mate about Andy Green. He wasn’t unduly impressed (he never gets too excited about anyone or anything) but said he was pacey (could be in trouble for saying that!) and conceded that they probably didn’t see him at his best in a struggling team in a troubled environment. Looking at a picture of him, I couldn’t help thinking he might be in the PCH mould.
Anderson won the U17 World Cup with England then left City to go and play senior football in the States. Interesting career path so far, would imagine he'd be a B Team signing if we were to get him.
I have just spoken to my Charlton mate about Andy Green. He wasn’t unduly impressed (he never gets too excited about anyone or anything) but said he was pacey (could be in trouble for saying that!) and conceded that they probably didn’t see him at his best in a struggling team in a troubled environment. Looking at a picture of him, I couldn’t help thinking he might be in the PCH mould.
Is that Andre Green you mean? He's played plenty of games for Villa and seemed to be popular with the fans there with many disappointed he's been released. His loans last season didn't appear to go so well though. Young player however, with plenty of Championship experience. Would be quite a coup to get him.
@chairboyscentral said:
No disrespect to Fulham, but Eze deserves better than that.
He'd play though, and probably get a bit of freedom in a team not expected to do much, Palace might be too defensive, a bigger team might bench him, a banger or two on match of the day and he'd be on everyone's radar.
Comments
Are you sure Ingram isn't an upgrade?
I'm genuinely not sure.
@Malone It's been a long time since I've seen him play - save for that one game on loan with us - but it would seem unusual to pay (probably a fairly considerable) fee for someone who's not even semi-proven in the Championship. If we're going to bring in a 'keeper whose ability to play at that level we're unsure of, surely it makes more sense to go for a loanee?
Not that simple, fees are often waved if the club don't want the player anymore, who knows what Stockdale or loan keepers want for wages, wouldn't be surprised if Gaz and Dobbo rated Ingram highly and thought they were the people to get the best out of him. On the other hand ex players are allowed to move on without it being back to us.
Would be amazed if Hull, with their owner, didn't hold out for something. Won't Ingram want guaranteed starts by now anyway? I'm not sure we could give him that.
You sure about that?!
They both have the same weaknesses. Ingram has played 11 Championship games in the last 4 years. At least Rocky has been playing regularly, so I can't really see Ingram is an upgrade.
I would prefer Stockdale if he is in reasonable physical condition.
@mooneyman Out of interest, what would you say Rocky's weaknesses are apart from his lack of command? He seems to have improved quite a bit in terms of parrying the ball to the side rather than straight out in front of him - which used to be a weak spot of his.
Stockdale would certainly have the highest pedigree, but it was a little worrying how he looked a bit unfit - which for a footballer should be the minimum.
And a couple of sloppy errors when he did get in.
Personally, I think Ingram is an upgrade on Allsop. I like Rocky but he’s just a little bit behind Matt in terms of his all round game for me.
I think we saw that when Ingram came back for his single loan game at Sunderland where he looked the part once again.
If he really is available, I’d love to see us sign Matt as I think he would genuinely improve the team as we head into our toughest ever season.
What makes a goalie 'Championship standard'?
I can see how outfield players need to compete with different types of players but what gives a goalie that extra edge?
For me I'd be more comfortable with Ingram or Stockdale (or Blackman) but Allsop is ok.
Are there still rules around fielding youth players and if so would resigning Ingram help?
Let's ask you the question in reverse - what makes you more comfortable with those players you'd favour over Allsop?
Chances are it's those aspects that make a higher tier keeper.
Does Ingram come off his line (copyright two years of the Gasroom) nowadays? I seem to remember 'He's a good shot stopper but...' from the olden days ?
I always wonder about the "good shot stopper" line.
Are any pro keepers NOT good shot stoppers?
Brian Parkin ?
Got his "autograph" once.
Still remember him telling some woman "it's just a bit of scribble, isn't it"
Ok. Got it. Me feeling more comfortable is the key.
How do I know if the keeper I feel most comfortable with is Championship standard though?
In all seriousness I would like a keeper who comes and gets crosses more often.
In my opinion, failure to command your area is the most critical shortcoming of a keeper. This was highlighted when Jamal Blackman was here as he took a lot of pressure off the central defenders. I think Rocky tends to panic at times, although the instances of this seemed to reduce last season.
I do wonder whether we have adapted to and trained around Rocky not commanding the area with him being actively discouraged from doing so now.
At least if as a defender you always know it is your job to defend on that area you are focussed on that and not having to think about whether it might be the goalkeepers to deal with
Must help avoid confusion sometimes
Agreed, When Scott Brown was between the sticks, the defence eventually learnt, he would come for almost nothing
But you had the bizarre scenario of players having to head away from under their own crossbar.
I bet Brentford fans wish their goalkeeper didn’t come out for quite so many crosses.
Linked with 19 year-old ex-Man City keeper
https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/wycombe-wanderers-identify-ex-manchester-city-man-as-transfer-target/
Curtis Anderson sounds like an interesting prospect with obvious potential to add to the club coffers in a few years time. I wonder if he was the ‘keeper who I surmised was one of the five second half trialists at Southampton?
I have just spoken to my Charlton mate about Andy Green. He wasn’t unduly impressed (he never gets too excited about anyone or anything) but said he was pacey (could be in trouble for saying that!) and conceded that they probably didn’t see him at his best in a struggling team in a troubled environment. Looking at a picture of him, I couldn’t help thinking he might be in the PCH mould.
Anderson won the U17 World Cup with England then left City to go and play senior football in the States. Interesting career path so far, would imagine he'd be a B Team signing if we were to get him.
And ready to make the step-up at a moment’s notice?
Is that Andre Green you mean? He's played plenty of games for Villa and seemed to be popular with the fans there with many disappointed he's been released. His loans last season didn't appear to go so well though. Young player however, with plenty of Championship experience. Would be quite a coup to get him.
Assume he meant Andre.... Would be a massive coup....
Correct @Alexo. But I’m pretty sure I’ve seen/heard him referred to as Andy. We’ll ask him when he arrives during the week!
No disrespect to Fulham, but Eze deserves better than that.
He'd play though, and probably get a bit of freedom in a team not expected to do much, Palace might be too defensive, a bigger team might bench him, a banger or two on match of the day and he'd be on everyone's radar.