Amazing that someone can say " he doesn't contribute a lot apart from goals he scores" and then admit they've hardly seen him play and people continue to treat him as though he's a serious contributor
Not sure that scoring bucketloads of goals does anything but boost confidence @bookertease. It certainly did the season before last until recurring fitness problems reduced his goalscoring potency.
Kashket on form has a lot to offer. Watching matches is much better than stats @DevC . He's had a serious injury from which it will take some time even though Richie has written him off, I still have high hopes once he is fit and scoring again.
I’m not convinced Kashket is an ideal fit with the 4-3-3 formation. He’s never going to replace Bayo as the central focus, and Tyson, PCH and CMS are ahead of him as the wide attackers. If we played a 4-4-2 he’d be my first choice alongside Bayo, but given we usually don’t his opportunities as a starter might be limited.
He’s clearly a talented player, and if he stays fit I’m sure he will score goals given a chance or two. But it does show how far we have come that such a good player isn’t an automatic selection. And we haven’t made any summer signings yet.
Of the three 'do you disagree?' questions, I do disagree with 1 and 2. He contributes plenty else, and it's a case of 'new season, fresh start' - not just for SK. I agree with 3, but again, that's not just true of SK.
For a man with an eye for detail, 'not many' is a weak answer.
As for 'stat quoting' - none of our strikers were in great recent goalscoring form, yet none were playing poorly. Rather than looking for weaknesses, I'd rather focus on the strength of our current attacking options.
Only someone who's barely, or never, seen Kashket play would say he contributes noting but goals. He constantly puts himself about to cause a nuisance and create space for others. Defenders can't take their eye of him as he has such a poacher's instinct, so even if he's not getting those goals, he's creating opportunities of others. He's a very different kind of defender magnet to Bayo but in their different ways they both work effectively.
@Chris said:
I’m not convinced Kashket is an ideal fit with the 4-3-3 formation. He’s never going to replace Bayo as the central focus, and Tyson, PCH and CMS are ahead of him as the wide attackers. If we played a 4-4-2 he’d be my first choice alongside Bayo, but given we usually don’t his opportunities as a starter might be limited.
I agree with this analysis, certainly against Accrington Kashket was awful as the central striker in the three and I'm with Dev that Kashket offers far less defensive / set piece cover than any of our other forwards.
I'm wondering whether we'll continue to play a 433 though in League One. If we start the season badly there may well be an argument to switch to a 532, at least against the better teams (I'm assuming we'll sign a good quality centre back this summer so will have the option of playing him alongside Stewart and el-Abd) and in that formation, a Bayo-Kashket partnership may work brilliantly, again.
I'd also worry about sending Kashket on loan to the lower leagues where the pitches may not be as smooth and the defenders are slightly more agricultural in style. If the rumours were true and part of Kashket's recovery was down to the psychological impact of not wanting to damage himself again, sending him out to get clattered in the national league week in week out may not be helpful.
A fully fit and in form Kashket is up there with O'Nien in terms of potential to be successful higher up the ladder than we're going to get, it's just whether that's ever going to happen for any sustained period of time.
I'd like us to sign Randell Williams, whether it be on loan again or a permanent deal. But as people have mentioned attackers are not something we massively need.
Just like the first cuckoo in spring, I have no doubt that voices will be demanding formation change just as soon as we lose three or four games in a row in Autumn. All sorts of formations will be suggested but no doubt the most popular will be a return to good old four four bloody two.
Nobody (with the exception of dear old Richie) is suggesting that SK does not have the potential to be a strong player for WWFC next season and into the future. The question is how best to get him there, given he hasn't played much for eighteen months or so IF early season form leaves him sixth or seventh in the pecking order and hence lacking in game time.
I don't see an awful lot of games, Mr hoover, so perhaps I am wrong about his contribution. Assuming we play 433 (to take Chris's point) if you look back on a game when the individual player has not himself scored, which would you expect to have made the biggest contribution to a positive result nonetheless - Bayo, CMS, Tyson, PCH, SK, NF. Realistically surely SK is towards the bottom of that list? Would you disagree?
Given Scotty's incredibly limited game time this season, opinions are hard formulate but take for example Barnet away where he played barely 15 minutes and yet still managed to cause panic in the Barnet defence with his ability to spot a chance and his willingness to stick his body into the mix.
Against Stanley he was played out of position, or at least asked to perform a role he's not ideally suited to, and that against the best team in the division.
My original point was only that anyone who believes he contributes nothing but goals really hasn't watched him play much.
@leo030500 said:
I'd like us to sign Randell Williams, whether it be on loan again or a permanent deal. But as people have mentioned attackers are not something we massively need.
Seeing as he has signed a new contract I heard 3 years at Watford, a loan deal will be the best we can hope for.
Richie, when you make a typo (in this case typing singed instead of signed) and get a harmless quip in return, it makes you look very silly indeed to then go back and edit it and pretend it didn't happen.
Eric, a sadly rather typical post from you. Just abuse with no substance whatsoever.
Would you like to explain, with rationale, where you disagree with anything I have posted? Or is abuse all you can muster/
No, you need to conduct yourself a bit better to warrant being engaged in discussion
Making a load of nonsensical statements on a player having hardly seen him, and then challenging other posters to prove you wrong when you're called out on it certainly doesn't warrant it
If you have an opinion state it. Otherwise perhaps silence would be a better option.
If Scott Kashket does not have an outstanding preseason moving him up the forward pecking order from his current position of perhaps sixth choice (or perhaps on reflection by the end of august), I think he might benefit from a spell of regular first team football out on loan. you presumably do not, but we wait patiently but in little hope for a coherent explanation of why not.
I may be missing something but playing a 4-3-3 system surely means being 5th or 6th choice will still give you a decent workload. 3 on the pitch, 2 or 3 on the bench and probably 1 or more injured?
Can the squad really work without at least 6 quality striking options? Sending Kasket out on loan lessens our ability to manage his workload and injury problems. Seems a much better option to keep him in house. He will score us goals that no-one else in our squad is capable of.
I would rather keep all ammunition in house, so to speak. We don't know if Bayo is going to terrorize as effectively in L1, and I can envision SK coming on for him once in a while to give an opposition something completely different to combat. With age a factor for three of our forwards, it is certainly going to be a shared workload again.
To be honest I would expect us to bring in another target man (a la Umerah) perhaps on loan further pushing SK down the list. But no doubt he will play in the LDV and get the odd 15 minutes in other games. And to be fair that was enough to force his way into the team 18 months ago when he went on his amazing run.
The question for me is, assuming he doesn't force his way into the starting 11 by the end of August, what is the best way to help SK force his way into our starting team - a few appearances of the bench and starts in the LDV or two months first team football elsewhere. I wonder if it might be the latter.
Shev, could you just confirm how often you have actually seen SK play live..........
Arsenal sent a scout to watch Kashket a number of times last season, Brian McDermott on one occasion, when he was enjoying that purple patch. I think they gave up sending someone after so many wasted trips when he was injured.
I don't know why I'm continuing this debate but genuine question for you Dev; given Kashket is a supremely talented, potentially star-quality young player who happens to have an ongoing condition that requires careful treatment and monitoring, what good do you think it would do him - or us - to farm him out to a National League team who have no interest in his long-term health and fitness, and given that he is understandably fragile mentally about his condition, what psychological benefits do you think he would get from being farmed out to a lower league side, particularly given the nurturing environment he enjoys at Wycombe surrounded by people like Ainsworth and Bayo?
@DevC - I am in America, so I only got to the Stevenage game! Thanks to the wonders of iFollow I did get to see 40 out of the 46 games overall, but I am definitely not claiming graIndy expertise or anything!
Comments
Amazing that someone can say " he doesn't contribute a lot apart from goals he scores" and then admit they've hardly seen him play and people continue to treat him as though he's a serious contributor
Unless anyone is suggesting Kashket is ahead of the other strikers in the pecking order, I am not sure what it is that people are taking issue with.
He'd be one of my first picks. Give the lad a break, it's an injury that not a great many players have to experience luckily.
Not sure that scoring bucketloads of goals does anything but boost confidence @bookertease. It certainly did the season before last until recurring fitness problems reduced his goalscoring potency.
Kashket on form has a lot to offer. Watching matches is much better than stats @DevC . He's had a serious injury from which it will take some time even though Richie has written him off, I still have high hopes once he is fit and scoring again.
Not so stressful studying stats though! Dev spends a lot of time on trains so a substitute interest from his usual entertainment!
I’m not convinced Kashket is an ideal fit with the 4-3-3 formation. He’s never going to replace Bayo as the central focus, and Tyson, PCH and CMS are ahead of him as the wide attackers. If we played a 4-4-2 he’d be my first choice alongside Bayo, but given we usually don’t his opportunities as a starter might be limited.
He’s clearly a talented player, and if he stays fit I’m sure he will score goals given a chance or two. But it does show how far we have come that such a good player isn’t an automatic selection. And we haven’t made any summer signings yet.
Of the three 'do you disagree?' questions, I do disagree with 1 and 2. He contributes plenty else, and it's a case of 'new season, fresh start' - not just for SK. I agree with 3, but again, that's not just true of SK.
For a man with an eye for detail, 'not many' is a weak answer.
As for 'stat quoting' - none of our strikers were in great recent goalscoring form, yet none were playing poorly. Rather than looking for weaknesses, I'd rather focus on the strength of our current attacking options.
Any stats are of course a bit pointless this season, bearing in mind he's basically had to rehab for the vast majority of the season.
I suspect that the reality of how important he is to us will come down to fitness, rather than type of player he is.
Only someone who's barely, or never, seen Kashket play would say he contributes noting but goals. He constantly puts himself about to cause a nuisance and create space for others. Defenders can't take their eye of him as he has such a poacher's instinct, so even if he's not getting those goals, he's creating opportunities of others. He's a very different kind of defender magnet to Bayo but in their different ways they both work effectively.
I agree with this analysis, certainly against Accrington Kashket was awful as the central striker in the three and I'm with Dev that Kashket offers far less defensive / set piece cover than any of our other forwards.
I'm wondering whether we'll continue to play a 433 though in League One. If we start the season badly there may well be an argument to switch to a 532, at least against the better teams (I'm assuming we'll sign a good quality centre back this summer so will have the option of playing him alongside Stewart and el-Abd) and in that formation, a Bayo-Kashket partnership may work brilliantly, again.
I'd also worry about sending Kashket on loan to the lower leagues where the pitches may not be as smooth and the defenders are slightly more agricultural in style. If the rumours were true and part of Kashket's recovery was down to the psychological impact of not wanting to damage himself again, sending him out to get clattered in the national league week in week out may not be helpful.
A fully fit and in form Kashket is up there with O'Nien in terms of potential to be successful higher up the ladder than we're going to get, it's just whether that's ever going to happen for any sustained period of time.
I'd like us to sign Randell Williams, whether it be on loan again or a permanent deal. But as people have mentioned attackers are not something we massively need.
Just like the first cuckoo in spring, I have no doubt that voices will be demanding formation change just as soon as we lose three or four games in a row in Autumn. All sorts of formations will be suggested but no doubt the most popular will be a return to good old four four bloody two.
Nobody (with the exception of dear old Richie) is suggesting that SK does not have the potential to be a strong player for WWFC next season and into the future. The question is how best to get him there, given he hasn't played much for eighteen months or so IF early season form leaves him sixth or seventh in the pecking order and hence lacking in game time.
I don't see an awful lot of games, Mr hoover, so perhaps I am wrong about his contribution. Assuming we play 433 (to take Chris's point) if you look back on a game when the individual player has not himself scored, which would you expect to have made the biggest contribution to a positive result nonetheless - Bayo, CMS, Tyson, PCH, SK, NF. Realistically surely SK is towards the bottom of that list? Would you disagree?
Given Scotty's incredibly limited game time this season, opinions are hard formulate but take for example Barnet away where he played barely 15 minutes and yet still managed to cause panic in the Barnet defence with his ability to spot a chance and his willingness to stick his body into the mix.
Against Stanley he was played out of position, or at least asked to perform a role he's not ideally suited to, and that against the best team in the division.
My original point was only that anyone who believes he contributes nothing but goals really hasn't watched him play much.
Seeing as he has signed a new contract I heard 3 years at Watford, a loan deal will be the best we can hope for.
I think you will find that it was Robbie Williams who singed his way to a new contract.
what u on about now @DevC
This is the trouble for Dev, on the rare occasion he actually talks about the football, he makes an absolute fool of himself
Like the Nick Freeman contact comment
Richie, when you make a typo (in this case typing singed instead of signed) and get a harmless quip in return, it makes you look very silly indeed to then go back and edit it and pretend it didn't happen.
Eric, a sadly rather typical post from you. Just abuse with no substance whatsoever.
Would you like to explain, with rationale, where you disagree with anything I have posted? Or is abuse all you can muster/
No, you need to conduct yourself a bit better to warrant being engaged in discussion
Making a load of nonsensical statements on a player having hardly seen him, and then challenging other posters to prove you wrong when you're called out on it certainly doesn't warrant it
Amazes me that others have done so to be honest
More empty words as usual Eric.
If you have an opinion state it. Otherwise perhaps silence would be a better option.
If Scott Kashket does not have an outstanding preseason moving him up the forward pecking order from his current position of perhaps sixth choice (or perhaps on reflection by the end of august), I think he might benefit from a spell of regular first team football out on loan. you presumably do not, but we wait patiently but in little hope for a coherent explanation of why not.
I may be missing something but playing a 4-3-3 system surely means being 5th or 6th choice will still give you a decent workload. 3 on the pitch, 2 or 3 on the bench and probably 1 or more injured?
Can the squad really work without at least 6 quality striking options? Sending Kasket out on loan lessens our ability to manage his workload and injury problems. Seems a much better option to keep him in house. He will score us goals that no-one else in our squad is capable of.
I would rather keep all ammunition in house, so to speak. We don't know if Bayo is going to terrorize as effectively in L1, and I can envision SK coming on for him once in a while to give an opposition something completely different to combat. With age a factor for three of our forwards, it is certainly going to be a shared workload again.
SK is a quality player and will play a big role for us next season.
its an interesting point from Mr Middle and Shev.
To be honest I would expect us to bring in another target man (a la Umerah) perhaps on loan further pushing SK down the list. But no doubt he will play in the LDV and get the odd 15 minutes in other games. And to be fair that was enough to force his way into the team 18 months ago when he went on his amazing run.
The question for me is, assuming he doesn't force his way into the starting 11 by the end of August, what is the best way to help SK force his way into our starting team - a few appearances of the bench and starts in the LDV or two months first team football elsewhere. I wonder if it might be the latter.
Shev, could you just confirm how often you have actually seen SK play live..........
Arsenal sent a scout to watch Kashket a number of times last season, Brian McDermott on one occasion, when he was enjoying that purple patch. I think they gave up sending someone after so many wasted trips when he was injured.
I don't know why I'm continuing this debate but genuine question for you Dev; given Kashket is a supremely talented, potentially star-quality young player who happens to have an ongoing condition that requires careful treatment and monitoring, what good do you think it would do him - or us - to farm him out to a National League team who have no interest in his long-term health and fitness, and given that he is understandably fragile mentally about his condition, what psychological benefits do you think he would get from being farmed out to a lower league side, particularly given the nurturing environment he enjoys at Wycombe surrounded by people like Ainsworth and Bayo?
@DevC - I am in America, so I only got to the Stevenage game! Thanks to the wonders of iFollow I did get to see 40 out of the 46 games overall, but I am definitely not claiming graIndy expertise or anything!
Or even grand expertise!