PMQs has lost it's appeal to me. Questions go un-answered. Soundbites delivered and soundbites responded. It is a great way to disengage with public especially younger voters.
And now it is followed by hysterical media and social media reports that both claim that one side wiped the floor with the other side. Even journalists that were once respected in my eyes resort to 'a great win for xxxx at PMQs today'. A great win? This is our country's future not X-Factor!!!!
I did watch the first five minutes but turned it off in disgust at what appeared to be a sixth form debating club. Where is the self respect of intelligent generally hardworking MPs from all parties reduced to baying like animals? It demeans them all and by extension our democracy.
No @ReturnToSenda, that isn't fair. You may disagree with their views, I disagree with their views but I have certainly met a number of honest decent Tory MPs who act with integrity in what they see as the best interests of the country. I have met a few right c*nts on both sides too. In a democracy you have to accept the right of others to hold in good faith differing views to your own.
I accept their right, but that's about it. They've been the ruling party (and I deliberately use the term 'ruling' as opposed to 'governing', such is their utter lack of compassion) for almost all of my adult life, and I refuse to believe that there's a decent one among them. Maybe that's just a product of how worn down I feel by their reign, but I truly resent them as a collective.
I have turned a new leaf. I am actively avoiding conversations that define people as Tories v Labour, Leavers v Remainers, etc. I am actively living in a state of grey politically. My tongue has deep bite marks
I’ve never seen myself as fitting into any particular camp. There are elements in the philosophies/ideologies of all the major political parties that appeal (or that at least I’d be content to go along with) but I’m not sure I could bring myself to vote for any of the current manifestations. In fact I’m pretty sure I couldn’t which leaves me open to criticism from those who insist that to have a vote is a privilege and that not to use it is a dereliction of “duty”.
Whatever we think about the present pantomime, it’s difficult to imagine Sir Keir and his cronies making a better fist of dealing with the economic/cost of living crises. I made the mistake recently of saying that at least Starmer seemed to be a man of integrity. I was laughed out of court and asked (by a close family member and partner) if I was aware of his background. Apart from the fact he was Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) for a number of years, I knew very little and, although I was intrigued as to what kind of scandal or improprieties may have tarnished his past, circumstances (time constraints) got in the way of potential enlightenment!
Even as I write this, something at the back of my mind is ringing distant bells. I think he may have been DPP at the time of the Savile investigations. I vaguely recall suggestions that some people may have tried to implicate him as having been responsible for delays in arriving at conviction.
I am probably closest to Lib Dems , @micra but have voted Labour and Green in the past. I generally don't agree with the Tories, especially in recent years, but am open to the possibility that sometimes they have good ideas too and certainly understand that it is perfectly possible to be a Tory with integrity genuinely believing that their views are best for the country. I am not tribal as too many are.
Starmer was indeed DPP. I do believe he is a man of integrity.
The Starmer/Saville slur has been debunked on many occasions https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975. It was just a slur thrown around most recently by Johnson to try to deflect attention from his lies and corruption and to try to project the impression that "all politicians are the same". Don't let yourself be fooled by these lies. They are not.
Most politicians do have integrity, a few do not, Johnson was very definitely one of the latter. As it happens, I would say both Truss and Sunak, like Starmer have integrity too. (Truss was just incompetent).
Would Starmer have made a better job of managing the economic crisis than Truss did - yes. Her policies were disastrous.
Would he do better than Sunak - probably but lets judge that when we hear the Autumn Statement in a couple of weeks.
Truss is an extraordinary blemish on our political system. I’ve been asked by a couple of people who have zero political interest what happened and why. And when I try to explain what an incredible thing the budget was their responses are simply ‘but couldn’t she see that was going to be the outcome?’
I think it’s safe to say Starmer wouldn’t have made the same mistake. Nor would a sixth former studying economics.
I watched that the other day, and assuming it is all true, then the current Labour lot are just as corrupt as the Tories. I'm amazed if that gets fact checked and is true then more has not been made of it. Mind you, knowing our press, they will wait for Labour to get into power and then start singing it from the roof tops.
Tories have been woeful and Brexit has not delivered and may never do so. It's certainly going to hurt a significant amount of people now but may resolve itself in the long term. The Northern Ireland situation is disgraceful and that alone should have meant we stayed in the EU. Is it fair to ruin those opportunities in life of current generations for future ones. I don't think so but some will argue the EU was doing that anyway.
We, realistically, are no more democratic than a number of countries lead by dictators, it's just we dress it up a little more pleasantly and then get the press to hammer it home. It's crap.
I'm amazed if that gets fact checked and is true then more has not been made of it.
@Commoner The problem is so much of the British press was complicit in it, aided it, and cheered it all on. To actually report on the Labour Files would be to own up to what they did, so they're all just ignoring it hoping it will go away.
By the way - Bucks Free Press is a joke. I can read other town's local papers without subscribing but need to pay to find out what is going on in my own town!
The guy seemingly radicalised by the likes of Farage and Braverman to throw fire bombs at buildings in Dover containing large number of people is reportedly from the High Wycombe area. Not the town's finest moment.
The individual concerned has not been named but has been described in at least one place as having severe mental health issues. He may conceivably be known to some on the Gasroom so probably advisable to post with caution rather than assert anything about motives. I accept the Overton window has been moved by the politicians cited, but actual incitement to violence of the sort which has taken place is very much the approach of the traditional far right, Paul Golding and chums are not averse to hunting down asylum seekers in their supposedly safe accommodation.
It also strikes me that when these cases so often involve the radicalisation of those with mental health difficulties, there is rather more than the inflammatory language used by the politicians to worry about. The mental health crisis for a start.
The actual Home Secretary using the language of the National Front in Parliament yesterday was as low a point as I've ever felt about the state of our country. I genuinely never thought we could stoop so low. All humanity, compassion, kindness gone. I could honestly cry.
A very dark day in our history. And those of you who have a vote in Steve Baker's constituency whenever the next General Election is I urge you to remember that this is the person he supported during the leadership election. He wanted her to be Prime Minister. Do the right thing and get rid of him
Remember though that any language used by Braverman is by definition endorsed by her boss Sunak unless he sacks or at least publicly rebukes her. He has done no such thing.
So at the next election I urge you wherever you live to follow Eric's advice and vote for whichever candidate has the best chance of ridding ourselves of these people.
Comments
PMQs has lost it's appeal to me. Questions go un-answered. Soundbites delivered and soundbites responded. It is a great way to disengage with public especially younger voters.
And now it is followed by hysterical media and social media reports that both claim that one side wiped the floor with the other side. Even journalists that were once respected in my eyes resort to 'a great win for xxxx at PMQs today'. A great win? This is our country's future not X-Factor!!!!
I did watch the first five minutes but turned it off in disgust at what appeared to be a sixth form debating club. Where is the self respect of intelligent generally hardworking MPs from all parties reduced to baying like animals? It demeans them all and by extension our democracy.
If those on one side of the house had any self-respect, they wouldn't have become Tories in the first place.
No @ReturnToSenda, that isn't fair. You may disagree with their views, I disagree with their views but I have certainly met a number of honest decent Tory MPs who act with integrity in what they see as the best interests of the country. I have met a few right c*nts on both sides too. In a democracy you have to accept the right of others to hold in good faith differing views to your own.
I accept their right, but that's about it. They've been the ruling party (and I deliberately use the term 'ruling' as opposed to 'governing', such is their utter lack of compassion) for almost all of my adult life, and I refuse to believe that there's a decent one among them. Maybe that's just a product of how worn down I feel by their reign, but I truly resent them as a collective.
I don't doubt that there are some right pricks in the Labour Party too, but I'd rather a few than many (although I'd vote Green in a PR system).
The tories have been in breach of the social contract for their entire current spell.
I have turned a new leaf. I am actively avoiding conversations that define people as Tories v Labour, Leavers v Remainers, etc. I am actively living in a state of grey politically. My tongue has deep bite marks
I’ve never seen myself as fitting into any particular camp. There are elements in the philosophies/ideologies of all the major political parties that appeal (or that at least I’d be content to go along with) but I’m not sure I could bring myself to vote for any of the current manifestations. In fact I’m pretty sure I couldn’t which leaves me open to criticism from those who insist that to have a vote is a privilege and that not to use it is a dereliction of “duty”.
Whatever we think about the present pantomime, it’s difficult to imagine Sir Keir and his cronies making a better fist of dealing with the economic/cost of living crises. I made the mistake recently of saying that at least Starmer seemed to be a man of integrity. I was laughed out of court and asked (by a close family member and partner) if I was aware of his background. Apart from the fact he was Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) for a number of years, I knew very little and, although I was intrigued as to what kind of scandal or improprieties may have tarnished his past, circumstances (time constraints) got in the way of potential enlightenment!
Even as I write this, something at the back of my mind is ringing distant bells. I think he may have been DPP at the time of the Savile investigations. I vaguely recall suggestions that some people may have tried to implicate him as having been responsible for delays in arriving at conviction.
I am probably closest to Lib Dems , @micra but have voted Labour and Green in the past. I generally don't agree with the Tories, especially in recent years, but am open to the possibility that sometimes they have good ideas too and certainly understand that it is perfectly possible to be a Tory with integrity genuinely believing that their views are best for the country. I am not tribal as too many are.
Starmer was indeed DPP. I do believe he is a man of integrity.
The Starmer/Saville slur has been debunked on many occasions https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60213975. It was just a slur thrown around most recently by Johnson to try to deflect attention from his lies and corruption and to try to project the impression that "all politicians are the same". Don't let yourself be fooled by these lies. They are not.
Most politicians do have integrity, a few do not, Johnson was very definitely one of the latter. As it happens, I would say both Truss and Sunak, like Starmer have integrity too. (Truss was just incompetent).
Would Starmer have made a better job of managing the economic crisis than Truss did - yes. Her policies were disastrous.
Would he do better than Sunak - probably but lets judge that when we hear the Autumn Statement in a couple of weeks.
Truss is an extraordinary blemish on our political system. I’ve been asked by a couple of people who have zero political interest what happened and why. And when I try to explain what an incredible thing the budget was their responses are simply ‘but couldn’t she see that was going to be the outcome?’
I think it’s safe to say Starmer wouldn’t have made the same mistake. Nor would a sixth former studying economics.
Have you watched The Labour Files yet @DevC ?
I watched that the other day, and assuming it is all true, then the current Labour lot are just as corrupt as the Tories. I'm amazed if that gets fact checked and is true then more has not been made of it. Mind you, knowing our press, they will wait for Labour to get into power and then start singing it from the roof tops.
Tories have been woeful and Brexit has not delivered and may never do so. It's certainly going to hurt a significant amount of people now but may resolve itself in the long term. The Northern Ireland situation is disgraceful and that alone should have meant we stayed in the EU. Is it fair to ruin those opportunities in life of current generations for future ones. I don't think so but some will argue the EU was doing that anyway.
We, realistically, are no more democratic than a number of countries lead by dictators, it's just we dress it up a little more pleasantly and then get the press to hammer it home. It's crap.
Sunak's sacking off COP27. I am stunned...
I'm amazed if that gets fact checked and is true then more has not been made of it.
@Commoner The problem is so much of the British press was complicit in it, aided it, and cheered it all on. To actually report on the Labour Files would be to own up to what they did, so they're all just ignoring it hoping it will go away.
https://twitter.com/marcuscarslaw1/status/1585592852205166593?t=myuEr7vZZ7orqAQuBgpDfw&s=19
Must admit I misread this first view, and was about to ask who COP27 is...
then realised this isn't a thread for me....
Every time i open this thread i remember why i never open this thread.
Lol https://twitter.com/marcuscarslaw1/status/1585592852205166593
By the way - Bucks Free Press is a joke. I can read other town's local papers without subscribing but need to pay to find out what is going on in my own town!
Hancock by name, cock by nature https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63471923
The guy seemingly radicalised by the likes of Farage and Braverman to throw fire bombs at buildings in Dover containing large number of people is reportedly from the High Wycombe area. Not the town's finest moment.
The likes of Farage, Braverman, May and Blunkett.
The individual concerned has not been named but has been described in at least one place as having severe mental health issues. He may conceivably be known to some on the Gasroom so probably advisable to post with caution rather than assert anything about motives. I accept the Overton window has been moved by the politicians cited, but actual incitement to violence of the sort which has taken place is very much the approach of the traditional far right, Paul Golding and chums are not averse to hunting down asylum seekers in their supposedly safe accommodation.
It also strikes me that when these cases so often involve the radicalisation of those with mental health difficulties, there is rather more than the inflammatory language used by the politicians to worry about. The mental health crisis for a start.
The actual Home Secretary using the language of the National Front in Parliament yesterday was as low a point as I've ever felt about the state of our country. I genuinely never thought we could stoop so low. All humanity, compassion, kindness gone. I could honestly cry.
A very dark day in our history. And those of you who have a vote in Steve Baker's constituency whenever the next General Election is I urge you to remember that this is the person he supported during the leadership election. He wanted her to be Prime Minister. Do the right thing and get rid of him
Its absolutely shameful Eric.
Remember though that any language used by Braverman is by definition endorsed by her boss Sunak unless he sacks or at least publicly rebukes her. He has done no such thing.
So at the next election I urge you wherever you live to follow Eric's advice and vote for whichever candidate has the best chance of ridding ourselves of these people.
She is an utterly vile woman.
And speaking of the Prime Mini-ster, Monbiot's on the money again: https://twitter.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1587405117393100802
They never stopped being the nasty party. The ‘hostile environment’ started under Cameron (and the Lib Dems were complicit.)
If you really want to be depressed, read the Windrush Betrayal by Amelia Gentleman.