The world of 2022 is a strange place, we do almost nothing about emitting 30 billion tonnes of a known greenhouse gas into the atmosphere each year but we agonise about what harmless words we use to describe people.
A lot of those words aren't harmless. And, we as individuals, have more power to enact positive change in that respect than we do when it comes to climate crisis (two very different issues which are both hugely important in their own way, but we have a lot less control over one than the other - depressingly).
Paul Shaw was on a completely different level in my year at BEJSC. We had some very talented players and Cosmos had players from as far as Langley, Cox Green(Shaw) and other places some distance from Bourne End.
I was always disappointed Paul never turned out in the quarters.
Gov website - However, we don’t say ‘mixed people’ or ‘mixed race people’. We usually say ‘people with a mixed ethnic background’ or ‘people from the mixed ethnic group’.
I thought I was advising the correct thing. Not because there was any malice at all in post - but if we are talking about kicking racism out of football and society then we need to be educated. I KNEW that all I would receive is "thumbs down" and negative comments. It's not my "rule". I don't think it's offensive - but in order for us to all contribute, we need to know what is politically right or wrong. The fact that none of us really do doesn't give us much hope! Not that we are racist, but we don't know the answers!
I'm half Greek - does that make me "mixed race?" It wouldn't offend me.
It's not @ChasHarps fault, nor do I even know if I am 100% correct but I'd presume the government website is what we should adhere to.
Apologies for bringing up the off subject topic. It wasn't my intention to cause a debate. It was merely friendly advice to an older generation than my own (respectfully).
@thecatwwfc - do you speak Greek at all? I am in the midst of learning, despite not having any heritage (though my brother-in-law is also half Greek) as I know a lot of Ancient Greek and though it would be fun to segue into the modern version. Hoping to get to a Greek island at some point and put it to use!
@thecatwwfc The AP style guide also advises not to use mixed race, so there does seem to be a move away from the term.
biracial, multiracial Acceptable, when clearly relevant, to describe people with more than one racial heritage. Usually more useful when describing large, diverse groups of people than individuals. Avoid mixed-race, which can carry negative connotations, unless a story subject prefers the term. Be specific if possible, and then use biracial for people of two heritages or multiracial for those of two or more on subsequent references if needed. Examples: She has an African American father and a white mother instead of She is biracial. But: The study of biracial people showed a split in support along gender lines.Multiracial can encompass people of any combination of races.
If it helps I am the father of mixed race children (White British / Afro Caribbean) and regularly (and proudly) refer to them as such.
in the real world I have never taken flak for it.
not saying it’s correct or currently the most appropriate term - just that most people don’t take offence and understand that language is an evolving thing.
i think it is right that those in a position to do so constantly evaluate what is reasonable and appropriate to ‘label’ people by and then update and educate people accordingly.
then recognise that education will take years to filter through and be understanding of those who have yet to receive and understand the memo.
and, if you are corrected (educated) be respectful of the challengers viewpoint and learn.
The saddest thing was by describing this wonder kid as mixed race, that i was hoping someone else may have come across him, I'd be amazed if he wasn't attached to a pro club.
If those words are incorrect or offensive, I do apologise. But how would i describe a ginger player in the future, without the same argument arising ?
Shall he be described as a player of traditional celtic appearence ?
Playing devils advocate here @ReturnToSenda "A lot of those words aren't harmless", my mum used to say that "sticks & stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me", are you saying that in 2022 it's no longer the case?
The easy way to think of some of the controversial use of language can be just that it changes as it always has as its purely descriptive. The Spastic society changing its name is the perfect example, those involved in the charity and disabled people in general used the word spastic for years, why do I need to change?
Well, some fairly horrible people turn the word into an insult and it grows, becomes a playground insult, often at people who aren't disabled, suggesting they are. But after years or probably decades of people having the word shouted at them on the street and people giggling whenever the charity name is raised you can see why people don't want it using anymore and the charity (as disadvantaged people need to beg for charity in this country) decided to change their name.
It's not the word, it's what it represents noe. Officials and families don't need what has effectively become a swearword on their mastheads and envelopes.
The sticks and stones thing may have been good advice for some as it gave people a way to deal with abuse, others will have stored up pain, not talked about it and not really dealt with the issue which is bullying, and had recurring issues for years. It was never meant to tell people they could continue abusing freely, well not by anyone with any morals.
Why is there an "epidemic of mental illness" these days, say compared to WW2 times do people think. See, many of the older generation don't see it and TBF & truthful, neither do I. Happy to be educated and not arguing but let's be honest, times were a lot tougher then. For example, no central heating, lack of food, a bulk of one parent families, shortages of just about everything, etc. A similar comparison is creeping up on us today. Could it be a sense of entitlement has shown today where it wasn't so then?
I for one believe rightly or wrongly, that SM may have a large contribution in todays woes, as generally speaking, most people put "happy situations" on their SM accounts & so generally, the say up to 30 year old start to think that they are somehow missing out as everyone else is happy & has lots of nice things & go to nice places etc but they don't. The cold reality is that these situations are highlights and not the norm. We all have low points, average days interspersed with the odd highlight, say WWFC win.
An example of modern day MH issues, would perhaps be a person, where my wife works, has had at least a day off a week, (sometimes 2/3), the majority of recent months. Now that person has claimed that they are suffering from mental health issues, but here is the rub. After some light investigative work, it is now known by their employer that they've spent up to 8 hours a day live gaming streaming whilst on sick pay, (for which they earn a nominal amount) and spent Monday in London with their partner on a jolly, (idiot doesn't think before posting on SM). Is this a MH issue or entitlement born out of easy financial bak up support?
Yeah, I can't remember who said it but I always loved the line 'Despite many claims to the contrary, there is no evidence to suggest that a swan has ever broken a human's arm with its wing'.
Comments
The world of 2022 is a strange place, we do almost nothing about emitting 30 billion tonnes of a known greenhouse gas into the atmosphere each year but we agonise about what harmless words we use to describe people.
A lot of those words aren't harmless. And, we as individuals, have more power to enact positive change in that respect than we do when it comes to climate crisis (two very different issues which are both hugely important in their own way, but we have a lot less control over one than the other - depressingly).
Paul Shaw was on a completely different level in my year at BEJSC. We had some very talented players and Cosmos had players from as far as Langley, Cox Green(Shaw) and other places some distance from Bourne End.
I was always disappointed Paul never turned out in the quarters.
Gov website - However, we don’t say ‘mixed people’ or ‘mixed race people’. We usually say ‘people with a mixed ethnic background’ or ‘people from the mixed ethnic group’.
Wish I'd shut up now
I thought I was advising the correct thing. Not because there was any malice at all in post - but if we are talking about kicking racism out of football and society then we need to be educated. I KNEW that all I would receive is "thumbs down" and negative comments. It's not my "rule". I don't think it's offensive - but in order for us to all contribute, we need to know what is politically right or wrong. The fact that none of us really do doesn't give us much hope! Not that we are racist, but we don't know the answers!
I'm half Greek - does that make me "mixed race?" It wouldn't offend me.
It's not @ChasHarps fault, nor do I even know if I am 100% correct but I'd presume the government website is what we should adhere to.
Apologies for bringing up the off subject topic. It wasn't my intention to cause a debate. It was merely friendly advice to an older generation than my own (respectfully).
It's probably best that this discussion ends now.
It’s pretty easy to be concerned about both of those things at the same time.
@thecatwwfc - do you speak Greek at all? I am in the midst of learning, despite not having any heritage (though my brother-in-law is also half Greek) as I know a lot of Ancient Greek and though it would be fun to segue into the modern version. Hoping to get to a Greek island at some point and put it to use!
@thecatwwfc The AP style guide also advises not to use mixed race, so there does seem to be a move away from the term.
biracial, multiracial Acceptable, when clearly relevant, to describe people with more than one racial heritage. Usually more useful when describing large, diverse groups of people than individuals. Avoid mixed-race, which can carry negative connotations, unless a story subject prefers the term. Be specific if possible, and then use biracial for people of two heritages or multiracial for those of two or more on subsequent references if needed. Examples: She has an African American father and a white mother instead of She is biracial. But: The study of biracial people showed a split in support along gender lines. Multiracial can encompass people of any combination of races.
Nothing to do with it I don't think. Coloured means something specific and different in South Africa, and is still used today. Doesn't mean black.
If it helps I am the father of mixed race children (White British / Afro Caribbean) and regularly (and proudly) refer to them as such.
in the real world I have never taken flak for it.
not saying it’s correct or currently the most appropriate term - just that most people don’t take offence and understand that language is an evolving thing.
i think it is right that those in a position to do so constantly evaluate what is reasonable and appropriate to ‘label’ people by and then update and educate people accordingly.
then recognise that education will take years to filter through and be understanding of those who have yet to receive and understand the memo.
and, if you are corrected (educated) be respectful of the challengers viewpoint and learn.
What are the 'negative connotations' of 'mixed-race'?
For a moment I thought you were suggesting that a government website was the source of correct terminology in this matter.
I was deeply worried that we were expected to believe anything they said was truthful...
The saddest thing was by describing this wonder kid as mixed race, that i was hoping someone else may have come across him, I'd be amazed if he wasn't attached to a pro club.
If those words are incorrect or offensive, I do apologise. But how would i describe a ginger player in the future, without the same argument arising ?
Shall he be described as a player of traditional celtic appearence ?
The world's gone mad.
Winding me up is fine @mooneyman. I’m a bit rundown.
I instantly thought what you did with the phrase mixed race. Then reading around I started wondering if it actually was acceptable or not.
Finding that government directive that you did, which doesn't sound much different, just worded slightly differently.
Minefield at times, but all you can do is try and keep up with the latest and if you slip out of time, change.
From what I've read of you there would clearly be no malice, but you can't be linking gingers in!
You’d have to ask the Associated Press.
Playing devils advocate here @ReturnToSenda "A lot of those words aren't harmless", my mum used to say that "sticks & stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me", are you saying that in 2022 it's no longer the case?
I don’t think that’s ever been true.
Was it ever the case? Probably not.
The epidemic of mental illness suggests words absolutely have a powerful effect on people
The easy way to think of some of the controversial use of language can be just that it changes as it always has as its purely descriptive. The Spastic society changing its name is the perfect example, those involved in the charity and disabled people in general used the word spastic for years, why do I need to change?
Well, some fairly horrible people turn the word into an insult and it grows, becomes a playground insult, often at people who aren't disabled, suggesting they are. But after years or probably decades of people having the word shouted at them on the street and people giggling whenever the charity name is raised you can see why people don't want it using anymore and the charity (as disadvantaged people need to beg for charity in this country) decided to change their name.
It's not the word, it's what it represents noe. Officials and families don't need what has effectively become a swearword on their mastheads and envelopes.
The sticks and stones thing may have been good advice for some as it gave people a way to deal with abuse, others will have stored up pain, not talked about it and not really dealt with the issue which is bullying, and had recurring issues for years. It was never meant to tell people they could continue abusing freely, well not by anyone with any morals.
Sticks and stones don't generally break bones either
this chat has got out of control, create another chat if you wanted to discuss another topic
Unlike a swan's wing!
Why is there an "epidemic of mental illness" these days, say compared to WW2 times do people think. See, many of the older generation don't see it and TBF & truthful, neither do I. Happy to be educated and not arguing but let's be honest, times were a lot tougher then. For example, no central heating, lack of food, a bulk of one parent families, shortages of just about everything, etc. A similar comparison is creeping up on us today. Could it be a sense of entitlement has shown today where it wasn't so then?
I for one believe rightly or wrongly, that SM may have a large contribution in todays woes, as generally speaking, most people put "happy situations" on their SM accounts & so generally, the say up to 30 year old start to think that they are somehow missing out as everyone else is happy & has lots of nice things & go to nice places etc but they don't. The cold reality is that these situations are highlights and not the norm. We all have low points, average days interspersed with the odd highlight, say WWFC win.
An example of modern day MH issues, would perhaps be a person, where my wife works, has had at least a day off a week, (sometimes 2/3), the majority of recent months. Now that person has claimed that they are suffering from mental health issues, but here is the rub. After some light investigative work, it is now known by their employer that they've spent up to 8 hours a day live gaming streaming whilst on sick pay, (for which they earn a nominal amount) and spent Monday in London with their partner on a jolly, (idiot doesn't think before posting on SM). Is this a MH issue or entitlement born out of easy financial bak up support?
Like anyone's going to take any notice of your crowd control efforts 🤣
We should update the saying to "A swan's wing may break my thing, but words can also hurt me."
Apparently that's nonsense too, although I still out the way of swans
Yeah, I can't remember who said it but I always loved the line 'Despite many claims to the contrary, there is no evidence to suggest that a swan has ever broken a human's arm with its wing'.