Bourne end junior clubs seem produce a few players. Ex Arsenal and Millwall striker Paul Shaw, The Togwell brothers and now Bishop. Another one for the future is a mixed race lad who would now be 15. He played against my sons team about 3 years ago, and he was the best thing I've ever seen at that level. He was picking the ball up midfield and just gliding through the opposing players, he scored about six that day.
For want of not upsetting people, and I had to Google it to be sure, such is the ever changing nature amd language of the subject....but I'm not sure that you are allowed to use the term "mixed race" anymore. I'm sure it was said with the intention of being P.C but may be worth editing as it may upset someone.
@Chris you are as clued up about this stuff as anyone, and I'm not trying to catch anyone out but I'm genuinely interested in it. How is "people of colour" an acceptable description when "coloured" is not?
I'm perfectly ok with using whichever terms are deemed non offensive and consider myself very "PC", but I've never been able to understand this one from a linguistic perspective
The world of 2022 is a strange place, we do almost nothing about emitting 30 billion tonnes of a known greenhouse gas into the atmosphere each year but we agonise about what harmless words we use to describe people.
A lot of those words aren't harmless. And, we as individuals, have more power to enact positive change in that respect than we do when it comes to climate crisis (two very different issues which are both hugely important in their own way, but we have a lot less control over one than the other - depressingly).
Paul Shaw was on a completely different level in my year at BEJSC. We had some very talented players and Cosmos had players from as far as Langley, Cox Green(Shaw) and other places some distance from Bourne End.
I was always disappointed Paul never turned out in the quarters.
Gov website - However, we don’t say ‘mixed people’ or ‘mixed race people’. We usually say ‘people with a mixed ethnic background’ or ‘people from the mixed ethnic group’.
I thought I was advising the correct thing. Not because there was any malice at all in post - but if we are talking about kicking racism out of football and society then we need to be educated. I KNEW that all I would receive is "thumbs down" and negative comments. It's not my "rule". I don't think it's offensive - but in order for us to all contribute, we need to know what is politically right or wrong. The fact that none of us really do doesn't give us much hope! Not that we are racist, but we don't know the answers!
I'm half Greek - does that make me "mixed race?" It wouldn't offend me.
It's not @ChasHarps fault, nor do I even know if I am 100% correct but I'd presume the government website is what we should adhere to.
Apologies for bringing up the off subject topic. It wasn't my intention to cause a debate. It was merely friendly advice to an older generation than my own (respectfully).
@thecatwwfc - do you speak Greek at all? I am in the midst of learning, despite not having any heritage (though my brother-in-law is also half Greek) as I know a lot of Ancient Greek and though it would be fun to segue into the modern version. Hoping to get to a Greek island at some point and put it to use!
@thecatwwfc The AP style guide also advises not to use mixed race, so there does seem to be a move away from the term.
biracial, multiracial Acceptable, when clearly relevant, to describe people with more than one racial heritage. Usually more useful when describing large, diverse groups of people than individuals. Avoid mixed-race, which can carry negative connotations, unless a story subject prefers the term. Be specific if possible, and then use biracial for people of two heritages or multiracial for those of two or more on subsequent references if needed. Examples: She has an African American father and a white mother instead of She is biracial. But: The study of biracial people showed a split in support along gender lines.Multiracial can encompass people of any combination of races.
If it helps I am the father of mixed race children (White British / Afro Caribbean) and regularly (and proudly) refer to them as such.
in the real world I have never taken flak for it.
not saying it’s correct or currently the most appropriate term - just that most people don’t take offence and understand that language is an evolving thing.
i think it is right that those in a position to do so constantly evaluate what is reasonable and appropriate to ‘label’ people by and then update and educate people accordingly.
then recognise that education will take years to filter through and be understanding of those who have yet to receive and understand the memo.
and, if you are corrected (educated) be respectful of the challengers viewpoint and learn.
The saddest thing was by describing this wonder kid as mixed race, that i was hoping someone else may have come across him, I'd be amazed if he wasn't attached to a pro club.
If those words are incorrect or offensive, I do apologise. But how would i describe a ginger player in the future, without the same argument arising ?
Shall he be described as a player of traditional celtic appearence ?
Playing devils advocate here @ReturnToSenda "A lot of those words aren't harmless", my mum used to say that "sticks & stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me", are you saying that in 2022 it's no longer the case?
Comments
Nobody.
Would.
Do.
That.
Bourne end junior clubs seem produce a few players. Ex Arsenal and Millwall striker Paul Shaw, The Togwell brothers and now Bishop. Another one for the future is a mixed race lad who would now be 15. He played against my sons team about 3 years ago, and he was the best thing I've ever seen at that level. He was picking the ball up midfield and just gliding through the opposing players, he scored about six that day.
For want of not upsetting people, and I had to Google it to be sure, such is the ever changing nature amd language of the subject....but I'm not sure that you are allowed to use the term "mixed race" anymore. I'm sure it was said with the intention of being P.C but may be worth editing as it may upset someone.
Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m under the impression that the term mixed race is fine?
@Chris you are as clued up about this stuff as anyone, and I'm not trying to catch anyone out but I'm genuinely interested in it. How is "people of colour" an acceptable description when "coloured" is not?
I'm perfectly ok with using whichever terms are deemed non offensive and consider myself very "PC", but I've never been able to understand this one from a linguistic perspective
@eric_plant I’m not sure there is an answer to that question - it’s just the way it is.
I’ve looked at a few articles (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-30999175.amp , https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-dahleen-glanton-colored-email-reading-list-20200304-utx7geiwm5hupa3t7w6xr3xqn4-story.html , https://slate.com/human-interest/2016/08/colored-person-versus-person-of-color-how-does-society-decide-which-racial-terms-are-acceptable.html ) the last of which seems to come closest to an explanation, but more of why terms change rather than why one specific term is preferred to the preceding one.
I thought mixed race was fine too.
Cheers, helpful articles
Is it not rooted in apartheid? Or does it pre-date that?
The world of 2022 is a strange place, we do almost nothing about emitting 30 billion tonnes of a known greenhouse gas into the atmosphere each year but we agonise about what harmless words we use to describe people.
A lot of those words aren't harmless. And, we as individuals, have more power to enact positive change in that respect than we do when it comes to climate crisis (two very different issues which are both hugely important in their own way, but we have a lot less control over one than the other - depressingly).
Paul Shaw was on a completely different level in my year at BEJSC. We had some very talented players and Cosmos had players from as far as Langley, Cox Green(Shaw) and other places some distance from Bourne End.
I was always disappointed Paul never turned out in the quarters.
Gov website - However, we don’t say ‘mixed people’ or ‘mixed race people’. We usually say ‘people with a mixed ethnic background’ or ‘people from the mixed ethnic group’.
Wish I'd shut up now
I thought I was advising the correct thing. Not because there was any malice at all in post - but if we are talking about kicking racism out of football and society then we need to be educated. I KNEW that all I would receive is "thumbs down" and negative comments. It's not my "rule". I don't think it's offensive - but in order for us to all contribute, we need to know what is politically right or wrong. The fact that none of us really do doesn't give us much hope! Not that we are racist, but we don't know the answers!
I'm half Greek - does that make me "mixed race?" It wouldn't offend me.
It's not @ChasHarps fault, nor do I even know if I am 100% correct but I'd presume the government website is what we should adhere to.
Apologies for bringing up the off subject topic. It wasn't my intention to cause a debate. It was merely friendly advice to an older generation than my own (respectfully).
It's probably best that this discussion ends now.
It’s pretty easy to be concerned about both of those things at the same time.
@thecatwwfc - do you speak Greek at all? I am in the midst of learning, despite not having any heritage (though my brother-in-law is also half Greek) as I know a lot of Ancient Greek and though it would be fun to segue into the modern version. Hoping to get to a Greek island at some point and put it to use!
@thecatwwfc The AP style guide also advises not to use mixed race, so there does seem to be a move away from the term.
biracial, multiracial Acceptable, when clearly relevant, to describe people with more than one racial heritage. Usually more useful when describing large, diverse groups of people than individuals. Avoid mixed-race, which can carry negative connotations, unless a story subject prefers the term. Be specific if possible, and then use biracial for people of two heritages or multiracial for those of two or more on subsequent references if needed. Examples: She has an African American father and a white mother instead of She is biracial. But: The study of biracial people showed a split in support along gender lines. Multiracial can encompass people of any combination of races.
Nothing to do with it I don't think. Coloured means something specific and different in South Africa, and is still used today. Doesn't mean black.
If it helps I am the father of mixed race children (White British / Afro Caribbean) and regularly (and proudly) refer to them as such.
in the real world I have never taken flak for it.
not saying it’s correct or currently the most appropriate term - just that most people don’t take offence and understand that language is an evolving thing.
i think it is right that those in a position to do so constantly evaluate what is reasonable and appropriate to ‘label’ people by and then update and educate people accordingly.
then recognise that education will take years to filter through and be understanding of those who have yet to receive and understand the memo.
and, if you are corrected (educated) be respectful of the challengers viewpoint and learn.
What are the 'negative connotations' of 'mixed-race'?
For a moment I thought you were suggesting that a government website was the source of correct terminology in this matter.
I was deeply worried that we were expected to believe anything they said was truthful...
The saddest thing was by describing this wonder kid as mixed race, that i was hoping someone else may have come across him, I'd be amazed if he wasn't attached to a pro club.
If those words are incorrect or offensive, I do apologise. But how would i describe a ginger player in the future, without the same argument arising ?
Shall he be described as a player of traditional celtic appearence ?
The world's gone mad.
Winding me up is fine @mooneyman. I’m a bit rundown.
I instantly thought what you did with the phrase mixed race. Then reading around I started wondering if it actually was acceptable or not.
Finding that government directive that you did, which doesn't sound much different, just worded slightly differently.
Minefield at times, but all you can do is try and keep up with the latest and if you slip out of time, change.
From what I've read of you there would clearly be no malice, but you can't be linking gingers in!
You’d have to ask the Associated Press.
Playing devils advocate here @ReturnToSenda "A lot of those words aren't harmless", my mum used to say that "sticks & stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me", are you saying that in 2022 it's no longer the case?