No serious business person is prepared to buy it in its current state at the requested price...
I believe Mike Ashley might be prepared to buy them but the price would be such that non-preferential & non football creditors won't get paid anything. This scenario would lead to DCFC starting their L1 campaign on -15 points which is infinitely better than them going into liquidation which strikes me as the only other likely outcome at this time.
I meant no one outside of the admin or the club know the true debt. But it has been quoted as up to £120m. No way is Ashley going to take on a circus with no visible way to make money for Ashley.
I suspect that 2 weeks will lapse. More butter spoon rattling (I would say sabre but it's never a sabre) from the EFL and then Ashley swoops and buys the club for £1. They take a further hit on a points deduction and then have a chance to reset.
@TheDancingYak the reluctance to sell assets on the basis of fearing having no assets left is a thin argument for failing to raise funds to remunerate creditors, which is the primary job that the administrators have been appointed to carry out. That the assets in question were due to amortise completely by the end of the season makes it all the more unfathomable. Better to liquidate those assets and accrue something for the creditors than to go on a crazy gamble of all-or-nothing proportions, it is a decision I look forward to seeing the justication for when a final reckoning can happen.
The administrators by not selling assets (players) in January took the ultimate gamble in that they hoped keeping the squad together could mean saving Derby from relegation and thus increasing the value of the remaining assets. This backfired and as such they have nothing of value to sell and the debt will have grown.
im afraid I can’t see how this ends with Derby starting the season on zero points. Best chance they start on -15 increasingly likely however is they don’t start the season at all.
I would say add that as well as the greed the fan's insatiable demand for success was also a factor in their demise. There is a encylopedia of batsh1t crazy stuff that went on at that club but the selling of a player they haven't even paid for (Kamil Jozwiak) is up there for me.
Twizz June 10 Flag
I've got a few quid stashed away - actually 2 old round pound coins and 2 €0.20 pieces I use for supermarket trolleys - will that be enough to finance Derby for next season?
The EFL have (rightly) determined that I fail their Fit & Proper Persons Test. It's a Catch 22 -if you're (in)sane enough to want to own DCFC then you're automatically not sane enough.
It's a relief, if I'm honest, as otherwise I'd be saddled with owning DCFC. Never thought my offer would be taken serious ...
Bluntly……it’s been a shitshow there for years. Originally caused by the owner chasing a dream that was being fuelled by fans wanting to rekindle a bygone age and not accepting that they are still “a big club”
'the league said it was "increasingly concerned" the delays presented "a real risk to the integrity of next season's competition" '
Surely there are only delays because the delays have been allowed? Any risk to the integrity of next seasons competition would be down to those who enforce the rules would it not?!
Ha ha, "a real risk to the integrity of next season's competition"! The EFL were happy to issue two fixture lists last season so they were quite happy then! YCMIU.
EFL are spineless in enforcing anything. The administrators look either out of their depth or corrupt. Derby is still burning cash. They have an unserviceable level of debt with no assets. They have five contracted players.
At what point is someone going to call this what it is and put an end to this sh1tshow? If Ashley is serious then he must know the consequences of further procrastination. Or is he relying on the EFL just doing deadline after deadline like they have for 15 months now.
And then the EFL might want to look up the road a bit more to Burnley who might be the next club with a looming unserviceable debt.
Took me a while to work out who they were quoting at the end of that article, turns out they are quoting the local BBC news bod. Times are hard when as an organisation you are having to quote yourself.
Companies and clubs get sold for a pound because contract law means there has to be two sides of a deal or it's not binding. It's a nominal amount but the new owner also has to take on any existing debt (HMRC and loads of others, much of it way overdue) and to show future methods of funding to be able to bring it out of administration, additionally the EFL need assurances they can last the season before they'll let them start it and to know wether they will be meeting the threshold of football creditors or are due another 15 points deduction.
We know Derby are worth sod all as they are now on the brink of collapse but the administrator's weirdly (or corruptly - via links to someone who might sound like Del Dorris) did have lots of interest so were trying to hold out for a big fee based on the potential worth and some flimsy assets. MM would like this to be sizeable so he can pay off debts he took on personally and he'd like a decent wedge for the ground too as he overpaid massively for it personally to cheat ffp. Most prospective new owners won't want him within a mile of the place. The admins and owners can sell for any amount they can get, be that £1 or £30m
This is different to Bury and others just in that if a buyer is out there like Ashley who is allowed to buy it for nowt in full spiv mode and agree with creditors to only pay back a small percentage of the debt and potentially get someone else to buy the ground and let them use it very cheaply they would have a club that gets 20,000 punters in a week and takes in enough to make them a force again.
So many if's and buts though still, unfortunately the option of bing able to stiff creditors and get it on really favourable terms attracts the worst types and encourages them to low ball offers, Ashley and his company often turn up when high street chains go bust looking at what they can pick out of the corpse whilst angling for cheap rates.
I see threads like today on Twitter where someone excitedly says that a new potential owner is preparing a £50m bid. Cue lots of excitement about who they are going to buy with that lovely lolly. Just missed on on Mane - damn etc. Until someone points out that HMRC is £28m, Mel Morris wants £20m for the ground (I'm sure that valuation is different to what they sold it for hmm) and that leaves £2m for football creditors that also have to be repaid to avoid a points deduction. So whether it is £1 or £50m they are ducked.
By my, admittedly back of a fag packet, reckoning the minimum required to meet the minimum obligations under the current RFL rules & meet MM's minimum price for Pride Park is a paltry £67m; this excludes any upaid wages or HMRC commitments since late April and most importantly provides WR with no additional funds to bolster his current 5-a-side squad.
Haven't followed this too closely as it's too annoying, but is there a realistic chance that Derby will fold before next Thursday's fixtures are announced?
Despite them blaming the EFL throughout there's an excellent chance they will be allowed yet another extension as long as interested parties are working away at a deal. I don't think I have heard that HMRC or any other creditor has called in their debt or issued a winding up order yet but it may be that they are protected by the administration period.
If someone else buys the ground at least temporarily as was apparently due to happen, and HMRC play a lot nicer than they normally do there is a decent chance the money needed won't be as high as some have said but they can only kick it down the road so long even this time. I would probably say season kick off is the next big deadline where it could fall apart in a way it can't be put back together, doesn't help them in pre-season but that's the least of their issues.
Surely there are going to be a lot of interchangeable fixture lists for next week to play out all of the situations. IF Derby were to fold, would the EFL allow the league to go ahead with only 23 teams? Would they save one of the teams who were relegated last season and start League 2 with 23 teams? Would they do the same as above for League 2 and have the Conference starting with one team less? It seems like the EFL don't want to make a decision and then deal with the knock-on effects of that decision.
Surely the precedent of 3 seasons ago is set with Bury folding and it being a 23 team league 1.
Unlike our claim against Derby, where teams would interchange, there would be no reason to save / move teams around, apart from to prevent the awkwardness of a 23 team season, but they don't seem to care about that recently as seen with Bury and I think the Conference was under numbers this year too was it?
The Couhig restraint on the compensation claim is proving to have been well justified. Ashley can take over and settle the Middlesborough wedge at a fraction of the cost if he accepts the penalty of a measly 15 points all of which can be recouped by spending the tens of millions saved on the squad, but a claim landed after the entity has come out of administration will be payable in full.
Honestly, I think there should be hard deadlines on a situation like this, with an option of mothballing for a year with automatic spot in L2 the season after. It's an absolute mockery.
Comments
No serious business person is prepared to buy it in its current state at the requested price...
I believe Mike Ashley might be prepared to buy them but the price would be such that non-preferential & non football creditors won't get paid anything. This scenario would lead to DCFC starting their L1 campaign on -15 points which is infinitely better than them going into liquidation which strikes me as the only other likely outcome at this time.
I meant no one outside of the admin or the club know the true debt. But it has been quoted as up to £120m. No way is Ashley going to take on a circus with no visible way to make money for Ashley.
I suspect that 2 weeks will lapse. More butter spoon rattling (I would say sabre but it's never a sabre) from the EFL and then Ashley swoops and buys the club for £1. They take a further hit on a points deduction and then have a chance to reset.
It’s an utter disgrace.
@TheDancingYak the reluctance to sell assets on the basis of fearing having no assets left is a thin argument for failing to raise funds to remunerate creditors, which is the primary job that the administrators have been appointed to carry out. That the assets in question were due to amortise completely by the end of the season makes it all the more unfathomable. Better to liquidate those assets and accrue something for the creditors than to go on a crazy gamble of all-or-nothing proportions, it is a decision I look forward to seeing the justication for when a final reckoning can happen.
The administrators by not selling assets (players) in January took the ultimate gamble in that they hoped keeping the squad together could mean saving Derby from relegation and thus increasing the value of the remaining assets. This backfired and as such they have nothing of value to sell and the debt will have grown.
im afraid I can’t see how this ends with Derby starting the season on zero points. Best chance they start on -15 increasingly likely however is they don’t start the season at all.
All due to one man’s and one businesses greed
I would say add that as well as the greed the fan's insatiable demand for success was also a factor in their demise. There is a encylopedia of batsh1t crazy stuff that went on at that club but the selling of a player they haven't even paid for (Kamil Jozwiak) is up there for me.
Twizz June 10 Flag
I've got a few quid stashed away - actually 2 old round pound coins and 2 €0.20 pieces I use for supermarket trolleys - will that be enough to finance Derby for next season?
The administrators have accepted your offer
The EFL have (rightly) determined that I fail their Fit & Proper Persons Test. It's a Catch 22 -if you're (in)sane enough to want to own DCFC then you're automatically not sane enough.
It's a relief, if I'm honest, as otherwise I'd be saddled with owning DCFC. Never thought my offer would be taken serious ...
Bluntly……it’s been a shitshow there for years. Originally caused by the owner chasing a dream that was being fuelled by fans wanting to rekindle a bygone age and not accepting that they are still “a big club”
Derby County: Chris Kirchner withdraws bid to buy League One side Derby County - BBC Sport
Looks like game over for Derby. Will the Geordie from Burnham save the Rams?
'the league said it was "increasingly concerned" the delays presented "a real risk to the integrity of next season's competition" '
Surely there are only delays because the delays have been allowed? Any risk to the integrity of next seasons competition would be down to those who enforce the rules would it not?!
Ha ha, "a real risk to the integrity of next season's competition"! The EFL were happy to issue two fixture lists last season so they were quite happy then! YCMIU.
EFL are spineless in enforcing anything. The administrators look either out of their depth or corrupt. Derby is still burning cash. They have an unserviceable level of debt with no assets. They have five contracted players.
At what point is someone going to call this what it is and put an end to this sh1tshow? If Ashley is serious then he must know the consequences of further procrastination. Or is he relying on the EFL just doing deadline after deadline like they have for 15 months now.
And then the EFL might want to look up the road a bit more to Burnley who might be the next club with a looming unserviceable debt.
How would Ashley be able to buy them for £1? I don't really understand how all this works.
Took me a while to work out who they were quoting at the end of that article, turns out they are quoting the local BBC news bod. Times are hard when as an organisation you are having to quote yourself.
Unless Birmingham get in there first. Not looking good there, and not sure the Reading saga is over quite yet.
And Watford will also be near the top of the queue.
Companies and clubs get sold for a pound because contract law means there has to be two sides of a deal or it's not binding. It's a nominal amount but the new owner also has to take on any existing debt (HMRC and loads of others, much of it way overdue) and to show future methods of funding to be able to bring it out of administration, additionally the EFL need assurances they can last the season before they'll let them start it and to know wether they will be meeting the threshold of football creditors or are due another 15 points deduction.
We know Derby are worth sod all as they are now on the brink of collapse but the administrator's weirdly (or corruptly - via links to someone who might sound like Del Dorris) did have lots of interest so were trying to hold out for a big fee based on the potential worth and some flimsy assets. MM would like this to be sizeable so he can pay off debts he took on personally and he'd like a decent wedge for the ground too as he overpaid massively for it personally to cheat ffp. Most prospective new owners won't want him within a mile of the place. The admins and owners can sell for any amount they can get, be that £1 or £30m
This is different to Bury and others just in that if a buyer is out there like Ashley who is allowed to buy it for nowt in full spiv mode and agree with creditors to only pay back a small percentage of the debt and potentially get someone else to buy the ground and let them use it very cheaply they would have a club that gets 20,000 punters in a week and takes in enough to make them a force again.
So many if's and buts though still, unfortunately the option of bing able to stiff creditors and get it on really favourable terms attracts the worst types and encourages them to low ball offers, Ashley and his company often turn up when high street chains go bust looking at what they can pick out of the corpse whilst angling for cheap rates.
I see threads like today on Twitter where someone excitedly says that a new potential owner is preparing a £50m bid. Cue lots of excitement about who they are going to buy with that lovely lolly. Just missed on on Mane - damn etc. Until someone points out that HMRC is £28m, Mel Morris wants £20m for the ground (I'm sure that valuation is different to what they sold it for hmm) and that leaves £2m for football creditors that also have to be repaid to avoid a points deduction. So whether it is £1 or £50m they are ducked.
By my, admittedly back of a fag packet, reckoning the minimum required to meet the minimum obligations under the current RFL rules & meet MM's minimum price for Pride Park is a paltry £67m; this excludes any upaid wages or HMRC commitments since late April and most importantly provides WR with no additional funds to bolster his current 5-a-side squad.
They really are fucked
Haven't followed this too closely as it's too annoying, but is there a realistic chance that Derby will fold before next Thursday's fixtures are announced?
Does a new owner have to be found by then?
Despite them blaming the EFL throughout there's an excellent chance they will be allowed yet another extension as long as interested parties are working away at a deal. I don't think I have heard that HMRC or any other creditor has called in their debt or issued a winding up order yet but it may be that they are protected by the administration period.
If someone else buys the ground at least temporarily as was apparently due to happen, and HMRC play a lot nicer than they normally do there is a decent chance the money needed won't be as high as some have said but they can only kick it down the road so long even this time. I would probably say season kick off is the next big deadline where it could fall apart in a way it can't be put back together, doesn't help them in pre-season but that's the least of their issues.
Surely there are going to be a lot of interchangeable fixture lists for next week to play out all of the situations. IF Derby were to fold, would the EFL allow the league to go ahead with only 23 teams? Would they save one of the teams who were relegated last season and start League 2 with 23 teams? Would they do the same as above for League 2 and have the Conference starting with one team less? It seems like the EFL don't want to make a decision and then deal with the knock-on effects of that decision.
Surely the precedent of 3 seasons ago is set with Bury folding and it being a 23 team league 1.
Unlike our claim against Derby, where teams would interchange, there would be no reason to save / move teams around, apart from to prevent the awkwardness of a 23 team season, but they don't seem to care about that recently as seen with Bury and I think the Conference was under numbers this year too was it?
Makes sense (I think!) - thanks
Our record in a 23 team L1 is pretty good isn't it?
The Couhig restraint on the compensation claim is proving to have been well justified. Ashley can take over and settle the Middlesborough wedge at a fraction of the cost if he accepts the penalty of a measly 15 points all of which can be recouped by spending the tens of millions saved on the squad, but a claim landed after the entity has come out of administration will be payable in full.
HMRC is now owed £36 M, i imagine they'll enjoy playing Ilkstone as a local game next season.
In which case add £4+ to my guesstimate which now raises it to a measly £71m plus
Honestly, I think there should be hard deadlines on a situation like this, with an option of mothballing for a year with automatic spot in L2 the season after. It's an absolute mockery.