I am asking the same question as you are how? If people see net migration is x time higher than it was when they had a dentist they equate it to cause and effect. And I am not sure that any party or government has done a convincing job of saying otherwise. We are in era of soundbite politics and knowledge. Farage has a simple message. Net migration 10x higher than it was, your life is worse. To some that resonates. Le Pen the same, Trump the same.
I don't think it's a far-right issue but there's something odd about the photo. He could have copied Farage and put on an England shirt handed to him by his PA. But he didn't. There's something so cynical about Starmer.
My Corbyn loving sister hates him so much she's voting Green for the first time,
How can you have a "credible" genuinely left wing option when the written press will simply lie and smear whoever that person is?
I disagreed with a fair amount of Corbyn's policies and standpoints (I agreed with a lot as well) but the outright lies that continue to be peddled against him are simply ridiculous. Even worse now that even the "centre" feel the need to repeat them for a popularity boost
But you're using phrases like "GENUINE fears about mass unchecked migration" which is just fear mongering and doing the far-right's job for them, and followed up with "Neither of the main parties have given a credible method of reducing net migration to historical levels." calling for non-racist politicians to pander to the far-right's ill informed prejudices.
I honestly can't understand the point you're making. If you don't actually believe it's all the fault of the foreigns, why the constant calls for reducing net migration to historical levels? Wouldn't be better to address the actual causes of the very real problems faced by the disaffected? Why should they waste time, money and effort looking to put a sticking plaster over something just because some racists want us to blame immigration?
Don't forget that most of those lies were fed to the press from inside Labour to ensure they could replace him with the haunted thumb in suit that we've got now.
Whatever you think the policies of Labour should be, you surely have to admit that it is been a remarkable achievement by Starmer to wrest control back from Momentum. Still not really sure how that happened.
The haunted thumb in a suit is likely to have a played one won one record on Friday morning. Corbyn played two lost two
If you happen to live south of the A4 around the Royal County, you can hear my academic electoral musings, when the presenter hasn't got anyone more interesting to talk to, from 10pm right through the wee small hours and probably on to 8am or so on BBC Berkshire on election night. I have to remain pretty non-party-political and relatively diplomatic, but it looks like the current government will hold onto two seats at best in the county, and could be blitzed totally in the fringe seats in the listening area in South Oxfordshire, West Surrey and North West Hampshire.
When you can’t get a doctor’s appointment or your child can’t get a school place, how many migrants are actually in the queue in front of you? The answer is probably zero.
It’s far easier for the government and Farage to blame all these problems on migrants rather than address the chronic lack of investment in infrastructure (and medical/teaching staff) over the last 15 years.
The recent high levels of migration are driven by people filling desperately needed vacancies in essential industries, especially after Covid/Brexit. The government will never admit to this.
As for asylum seekers, maybe if there was an actual legal method for people to apply then they wouldn’t feel the need to put their family at risk of drowning and give all their life savings to a smuggler.
As @drcongo has pointed out Corbyn's cause was not helped in either election by his own party workers briefing against him & helping the media with blatant lies about him.
Crikey @DevC, they didn’t “let it slip”. It was a vicious campaign of smearing a life-long anti-racist campaigner as an antisemite just because he believes Palestinians have rights, conducted by Starmer and his awful right wing buddies, aided by the Guardian. Do some reading. Maybe start here.
momentum had complete control and they threw it away. Thank goodness.
Hopefully in the not too distant future perhaps even in 2025 we will have an electoral system where you can have both a socialist party and a social democrat party. We’ll see which commands the most support then.
@DevC out of interest, assuming both had an equal chance of winning an election, would you prefer the policies of a socialist or a social democratic party?
I’ve always been on the left of the Labour Party, but until Corbyn I believed there was no chance of winning an election on a left manifesto. But we were so close in 2017, and winning 40% of the vote. I can’t support the current version of the Labour Party, although I would still vote for them if I was in a marginal seat.
There is still a chance that Labour will have a massive landslide this year on a lower percentage of the vote than Corbyn in 2017, although I think it will probably end up being around a percentage point more.
Out of interest if there was PR at the next election with a Socialist party, a Social Democrat one, Green, a one nation one and a populist one, what do you think the vote share and government post election would be.
if you don’t mind saying, what is your constituency?
Surely it would depend on manifestos and campaigning.
Out of interest, if there was a piece of string, another piece of string, a piece of string and a piece of string, how long would the pieces of string be?
So.... I have no clue how to do it.... but who wants to set up a poll of who they are voting for on Thursday? And who dares publicly announce it? I think frim reading the thread some posters alliances are obvious.... others bot so much... I haven't commented on this thread.... and I am still with a couple of days to go.. not sure where I will put my X
Honestly unless someone really messes up (eg Teresa May in the election Corbyn still managed to lose) really not sure the campaigns make a lot of difference.
I too am a lifelong trade union member & socialist, I left Labour when Blair got rid of Clause 4 but was sorely tempted to rejoin when Corbyn became leader.
I will always vote for whoever has the best chance of beating the Tory incumbent or keeping them out, but would rather my views were better represented in the Commons.
P.S. I live in Dover & Deal - ignoring Elphicke crossing the floor - Labour has won the seat in 3 of the elections since 1945, this time round despite 11 candidates (Labour, Cons, LD, Green, 3 indies, Reform, Heritage, English Democrats & Workers Party) it is a straight fight between Labour & the right; I suspect Cons, Reform, Heritage & LDs will split the right wing vote with the Greens & indies all losing their deposits (they usually do along with the right wing fringe parties).
Comments
I am asking the same question as you are how? If people see net migration is x time higher than it was when they had a dentist they equate it to cause and effect. And I am not sure that any party or government has done a convincing job of saying otherwise. We are in era of soundbite politics and knowledge. Farage has a simple message. Net migration 10x higher than it was, your life is worse. To some that resonates. Le Pen the same, Trump the same.
I don't think it's a far-right issue but there's something odd about the photo. He could have copied Farage and put on an England shirt handed to him by his PA. But he didn't. There's something so cynical about Starmer.
My Corbyn loving sister hates him so much she's voting Green for the first time,
How can you have a "credible" genuinely left wing option when the written press will simply lie and smear whoever that person is?
I disagreed with a fair amount of Corbyn's policies and standpoints (I agreed with a lot as well) but the outright lies that continue to be peddled against him are simply ridiculous. Even worse now that even the "centre" feel the need to repeat them for a popularity boost
But you're using phrases like "GENUINE fears about mass unchecked migration" which is just fear mongering and doing the far-right's job for them, and followed up with "Neither of the main parties have given a credible method of reducing net migration to historical levels." calling for non-racist politicians to pander to the far-right's ill informed prejudices.
I honestly can't understand the point you're making. If you don't actually believe it's all the fault of the foreigns, why the constant calls for reducing net migration to historical levels? Wouldn't be better to address the actual causes of the very real problems faced by the disaffected? Why should they waste time, money and effort looking to put a sticking plaster over something just because some racists want us to blame immigration?
Don't forget that most of those lies were fed to the press from inside Labour to ensure they could replace him with the haunted thumb in suit that we've got now.
Whatever you think the policies of Labour should be, you surely have to admit that it is been a remarkable achievement by Starmer to wrest control back from Momentum. Still not really sure how that happened.
The haunted thumb in a suit is likely to have a played one won one record on Friday morning. Corbyn played two lost two
If you happen to live south of the A4 around the Royal County, you can hear my academic electoral musings, when the presenter hasn't got anyone more interesting to talk to, from 10pm right through the wee small hours and probably on to 8am or so on BBC Berkshire on election night. I have to remain pretty non-party-political and relatively diplomatic, but it looks like the current government will hold onto two seats at best in the county, and could be blitzed totally in the fringe seats in the listening area in South Oxfordshire, West Surrey and North West Hampshire.
Is Aldershot in your area? Looks quite interesting
The condensing of politics to simply "winning or losing" is a huge part of the problem meaning why we don't have a functioning system.
When you can’t get a doctor’s appointment or your child can’t get a school place, how many migrants are actually in the queue in front of you? The answer is probably zero.
It’s far easier for the government and Farage to blame all these problems on migrants rather than address the chronic lack of investment in infrastructure (and medical/teaching staff) over the last 15 years.
The recent high levels of migration are driven by people filling desperately needed vacancies in essential industries, especially after Covid/Brexit. The government will never admit to this.
As for asylum seekers, maybe if there was an actual legal method for people to apply then they wouldn’t feel the need to put their family at risk of drowning and give all their life savings to a smuggler.
Essential industries - I thought that these were long gone?!
Winning or losing is pretty important in elections don't you think. To be fair to Corbyn on Friday he will still lead Starmer 2-1 in taking part.....
Corbyn would likely have won this election, Starmer would likely have lost against Johnson. It’s not as simple as you are making out.
As @drcongo has pointed out Corbyn's cause was not helped in either election by his own party workers briefing against him & helping the media with blatant lies about him.
I agree with @Chris above
You’re still not really sure how that happened despite the answer being in the very post you were replying to?
No not sure at all. Momentum had complete control and somehow allowed it to slip away.
Crikey @DevC, they didn’t “let it slip”. It was a vicious campaign of smearing a life-long anti-racist campaigner as an antisemite just because he believes Palestinians have rights, conducted by Starmer and his awful right wing buddies, aided by the Guardian. Do some reading. Maybe start here.
Labour members trusting Starmer’s pledges during the leadership election presumably played a part too.
Or here.
momentum had complete control and they threw it away. Thank goodness.
Hopefully in the not too distant future perhaps even in 2025 we will have an electoral system where you can have both a socialist party and a social democrat party. We’ll see which commands the most support then.
@DevC out of interest, assuming both had an equal chance of winning an election, would you prefer the policies of a socialist or a social democratic party?
I am broadly Blairite Social Democrat. I fully respect that you are somewhat to the left of that.
I’ve always been on the left of the Labour Party, but until Corbyn I believed there was no chance of winning an election on a left manifesto. But we were so close in 2017, and winning 40% of the vote. I can’t support the current version of the Labour Party, although I would still vote for them if I was in a marginal seat.
There is still a chance that Labour will have a massive landslide this year on a lower percentage of the vote than Corbyn in 2017, although I think it will probably end up being around a percentage point more.
Out of interest if there was PR at the next election with a Socialist party, a Social Democrat one, Green, a one nation one and a populist one, what do you think the vote share and government post election would be.
if you don’t mind saying, what is your constituency?
Surely it would depend on manifestos and campaigning.
Out of interest, if there was a piece of string, another piece of string, a piece of string and a piece of string, how long would the pieces of string be?
Something about string theory....
PPString>>>>>>PPE
So.... I have no clue how to do it.... but who wants to set up a poll of who they are voting for on Thursday? And who dares publicly announce it? I think frim reading the thread some posters alliances are obvious.... others bot so much... I haven't commented on this thread.... and I am still with a couple of days to go.. not sure where I will put my X
Honestly unless someone really messes up (eg Teresa May in the election Corbyn still managed to lose) really not sure the campaigns make a lot of difference.
I too am a lifelong trade union member & socialist, I left Labour when Blair got rid of Clause 4 but was sorely tempted to rejoin when Corbyn became leader.
I will always vote for whoever has the best chance of beating the Tory incumbent or keeping them out, but would rather my views were better represented in the Commons.
P.S. I live in Dover & Deal - ignoring Elphicke crossing the floor - Labour has won the seat in 3 of the elections since 1945, this time round despite 11 candidates (Labour, Cons, LD, Green, 3 indies, Reform, Heritage, English Democrats & Workers Party) it is a straight fight between Labour & the right; I suspect Cons, Reform, Heritage & LDs will split the right wing vote with the Greens & indies all losing their deposits (they usually do along with the right wing fringe parties).