@Wendoverman said:
Are we allowed to say next two games are 'must win' to stay in the race? Unless Sunderland and Oxford implode I cannot see us making it if we don't get six points before meeting Plymouth.
Oxford play Sunderland on Saturday. They can’t both win.
Agree with the positives on Horgan, clearly divides opinion. To me it’s him that is linking Scowen and Wing together I the 2nd half of the pitch making is the force we are, and the 3 of them are so assured together.
His weakness for me in a central role is his heading, it fucking horrendous for a pro footballer. Seems to miss read it’s flight or bounce off the floor so often. But I can live with this, he’s not really there to head a ball, much like Tafazolli isn’t there to cut teams open with sublime skill ?.
I’d just like to see some shots on target and hopefully goals added to Horgans game to be honest.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Anyone who doesn't appreciate Horgan doesn't know anything about football
We'll, judging from the amount of times he's in the starting line up - especially last season when he really might have made a difference - you can presumably apply that to our manager?
@ReturnToSenda said:
Late Wednesday winner is a bit of a shitter, but I think Oxford are going to be the ones to overtake. We're still very much in this. UTW!
Going to be an exciting finish, 4 teams going for 2 places. We'll almost certainly have to beat Wednesday.
Decent enough performance today, very good at times, rather shaky at others. Comfortably did enough though.
Strange that Horgan divides opinion so much. I always feel we play better with him in the team. He takes up so many good positions and can really pick a pass. A great example today was our first goal. In the right place to receive the nod down from Vokes and a quick accurate pass to find Mehmeti in space to set up the goal. He may not get many direct assists (although he must have a fair few this season), but he's often involved in the build up to goals, as he so frequently picks out the likes of McCleary, Mehmeti and Obita in space.
With the teams directly above us playing each other, 4 points from the next 2 away games would be a good return and keep us right in amongst it. 6 points would be better of course, but I suspect it'll be 2 very tough games.
@Wendoverman said:
Are we allowed to say next two games are 'must win' to stay in the race? Unless Sunderland and Oxford implode I cannot see us making it if we don't get six points before meeting Plymouth.
The gasroom pedants only accept the literal definition of "must win".
When in reality the context of a game makes one must win, like today.
Doncaster were a strange team. Very neat and tidy in the main, but spent about 95% of the time passing between their defence and sweeper type guy.
Very little aerial ability, very ;little pace or strength throughout.
The way they still almost scored a couple of times was a little alarming, but on the whole it felt a strangely subdued minimal gear job needed to ease comfortably out with the win.
Going by expected assists - which is a very good at-a-glance tool for assessing creativity - only McCleary (0.41/90) has been more creative than Horgan (0.4/90) out of current players who signed last season or earlier. He regularly plays the right balls into dangerous areas; it's not his fault if his teammates don't take the chances he creates. And that's before we get onto how valuable he is in a creative sense with his off-the-ball movement.
For balance, I think you probably would have to say he's been slightly wasteful in front of goal, but he hasn't had a whole load of great chances and he wasn't brought in to score goals (he's never scored more than two in a season in England).
Solid if slightly dull performance at times today, but not helped by the wind in the second half. Thought the Taf Quarterback style balls to Vokes were really effective in the first half.
A few decent players for Doncaster, but zero urgency even at 2-0 from them, which is always the sign of a team in trouble. They’ll be going down.
Not too fussed about the other results today, still 6 to play, and we’re only 1 point outside the playoffs. With 18 points to play for, there will be a lot of movement between now and the end of the season.
I was glad Bayo got some special moments in the last 10. He’s great the air, but people will forever underestimate how good he is with the ball at his feet. I hope he stays involved with the club in some kind of capacity, as he’s been such a big part of the culture within the club in the last 5 years.
@ReturnToSenda Is there such a thing as an assist assist? The pass that leads to the assist? Reckon Horgs would be high on that, as @Wycombe85 said he's often picking out the players that do most of the assisting.
@drcongo said: @ReturnToSenda Is there such a thing as an assist assist? The pass that leads to the assist? Reckon Horgs would be high on that, as @Wycombe85 said he's often picking out the players that do most of the assisting.
Yeah, pre-assist / hockey assist, although idk if they're officially recorded - I can't get them myself and I'm not going back through every goal manually...
@PrinceOfCrowell said:
The noise from the terrace is non-existent
Only just got home, but I don't agree at all ! I go I the terrace and I thought it was a good atmosphere today... people constantly say this, if true we do really need to sort the acoustics out !
On another note, anyone in the Frank Adams see that guy getting kicked out?
A guy who looked like a bouncer and a police officer spent a fair while staring up to the back of the stand, then took this guy out who looked a bit like "White Yardie" if you've seen Arsenal fan tv?
He then was escorted out while shouting "EFF the police" grinning at some random.
People still moaning about Horgan, sorry you don't know what your talking about. Some of you have voted for Mehmeti to be man of the match, but if it wasn't for Horgan he wouldn't of been able to put that cross in for the first goal !
Anis' goal was very similar to his first for the club v QPR - 'keeper gets a touch, but it looks like the ball suddenly speeds up just before he does. Just coincidence or something to do with shooting technique?
Horgan is a very very good player. But only up the middle. GA played him wide a lot prior to this decent run and he's crap out wide, he can't absolutely rinse a defender in the way GMac or Anis can, but his movement and ability to create space for others to do stuff is superb.
@malone I bumped into him later at a bus stop he was caught on camera swigging from a minitature wine bottle. Very South Bucks ,not lager but wine!> @Malone said:
On another note, anyone in the Frank Adams see that guy getting kicked out?
A guy who looked like a bouncer and a police officer spent a fair while staring up to the back of the stand, then took this guy out who looked a bit like "White Yardie" if you've seen Arsenal fan tv?
He then was escorted out while shouting "EFF the police" grinning at some random.
@Cambridge_Blue said:
Horgan is a very very good player. But only up the middle. GA played him wide a lot prior to this decent run and he's crap out wide, he can't absolutely rinse a defender in the way GMac or Anis can, but his movement and ability to create space for others to do stuff is superb.
I’m sure I’ve seen him playing well out wide for Ireland. And wasn’t he on the wing for Preston when he destroyed Wycombe?
I like Horgan. His movement off the ball helps so many others.
Felt proud of our club today. From the Bayo tributes, through the applause for the Doncaster person as well as the 18’s lap of honour. No stats to back up these feelings. Sorry.
Thoroughly professional on the pitch today too. Tough conditions at times and a neat and tidy opposition. Hopefully kept plenty in the tank for Tuesday as it really doesn’t look like our promotion rivals are going to slip up.
@woodlands said: @malone I bumped into him later at a bus stop he was caught on camera swigging from a minitature wine bottle. Very South Bucks ,not lager but wine!> @Malone said:
On another note, anyone in the Frank Adams see that guy getting kicked out?
A guy who looked like a bouncer and a police officer spent a fair while staring up to the back of the stand, then took this guy out who looked a bit like "White Yardie" if you've seen Arsenal fan tv?
He then was escorted out while shouting "EFF the police" grinning at some random.
Very odd.
S
Ah ok. Strange not to try and be a little subtle and bring it in a plastic bottle or something.
A steward stopped my mate from bringing a can into the carpark! Not sure if he thought it was booze (it wasn't), but arguably a bit odd when 100s are wandering around the carpark with plastic glasses full of booze!
@woodlands said: @malone I bumped into him later at a bus stop he was caught on camera swigging from a minitature wine bottle. Very South Bucks ,not lager but wine!> @Malone said:
On another note, anyone in the Frank Adams see that guy getting kicked out?
A guy who looked like a bouncer and a police officer spent a fair while staring up to the back of the stand, then took this guy out who looked a bit like "White Yardie" if you've seen Arsenal fan tv?
He then was escorted out while shouting "EFF the police" grinning at some random.
Very odd.
S
Ah ok. Strange not to try and be a little subtle and bring it in a plastic bottle or something.
A steward stopped my mate from bringing a can into the carpark! Not sure if he thought it was booze (it wasn't), but arguably a bit odd when 100s are wandering around the carpark with plastic glasses full of booze!
I got kicked out of Revs in Beaco during my student days after I got caught with a hip flask
@drcongo said:
I thought Horgan had a really good game again.
Horgan and Wing did pretty much everything well. Just they didn’t get a chance to do enough of it. The midfield was empty apart from the usual 3 Josh Scowens.
Comments
Oxford play Sunderland on Saturday. They can’t both win.
Agree with the positives on Horgan, clearly divides opinion. To me it’s him that is linking Scowen and Wing together I the 2nd half of the pitch making is the force we are, and the 3 of them are so assured together.
His weakness for me in a central role is his heading, it fucking horrendous for a pro footballer. Seems to miss read it’s flight or bounce off the floor so often. But I can live with this, he’s not really there to head a ball, much like Tafazolli isn’t there to cut teams open with sublime skill ?.
I’d just like to see some shots on target and hopefully goals added to Horgans game to be honest.
Keep it going lads!
I'd love to buy into him, but the sheer lack of end product brings him down.
Mehmeti can be frustrating, but has quickly developed an end product to a different plane than Horgan.
We'll, judging from the amount of times he's in the starting line up - especially last season when he really might have made a difference - you can presumably apply that to our manager?
I think you can say that sort of thing about Vokes, but for me Horgan doesn't produce enough of the key metrics - crosses, assists or goals.
Especially when the two guys along side him, McCleary and Mehmeti produce loads.
He's obviously a decent enough player, but has never come close to the star player a lot of us presumed he'd be.
That was a killer seeing both of those go in.
Cheltenham at their usual tricks too, 4-4 with 2 goals 90mins or later!
Going to be an exciting finish, 4 teams going for 2 places. We'll almost certainly have to beat Wednesday.
Decent enough performance today, very good at times, rather shaky at others. Comfortably did enough though.
Strange that Horgan divides opinion so much. I always feel we play better with him in the team. He takes up so many good positions and can really pick a pass. A great example today was our first goal. In the right place to receive the nod down from Vokes and a quick accurate pass to find Mehmeti in space to set up the goal. He may not get many direct assists (although he must have a fair few this season), but he's often involved in the build up to goals, as he so frequently picks out the likes of McCleary, Mehmeti and Obita in space.
With the teams directly above us playing each other, 4 points from the next 2 away games would be a good return and keep us right in amongst it. 6 points would be better of course, but I suspect it'll be 2 very tough games.
The gasroom pedants only accept the literal definition of "must win".
When in reality the context of a game makes one must win, like today.
Doncaster were a strange team. Very neat and tidy in the main, but spent about 95% of the time passing between their defence and sweeper type guy.
Very little aerial ability, very ;little pace or strength throughout.
The way they still almost scored a couple of times was a little alarming, but on the whole it felt a strangely subdued minimal gear job needed to ease comfortably out with the win.
Going by expected assists - which is a very good at-a-glance tool for assessing creativity - only McCleary (0.41/90) has been more creative than Horgan (0.4/90) out of current players who signed last season or earlier. He regularly plays the right balls into dangerous areas; it's not his fault if his teammates don't take the chances he creates. And that's before we get onto how valuable he is in a creative sense with his off-the-ball movement.
For balance, I think you probably would have to say he's been slightly wasteful in front of goal, but he hasn't had a whole load of great chances and he wasn't brought in to score goals (he's never scored more than two in a season in England).
He really shouldn't divide opinion.
I don't think any of the "doubters" are saying he shouldn't start, just that they're frustrated he doesn't have more end product.
What do his actual assists look like, versus McCleary and Mehmeti? Maybe it's not that far different?
Solid if slightly dull performance at times today, but not helped by the wind in the second half. Thought the Taf Quarterback style balls to Vokes were really effective in the first half.
A few decent players for Doncaster, but zero urgency even at 2-0 from them, which is always the sign of a team in trouble. They’ll be going down.
Not too fussed about the other results today, still 6 to play, and we’re only 1 point outside the playoffs. With 18 points to play for, there will be a lot of movement between now and the end of the season.
I was glad Bayo got some special moments in the last 10. He’s great the air, but people will forever underestimate how good he is with the ball at his feet. I hope he stays involved with the club in some kind of capacity, as he’s been such a big part of the culture within the club in the last 5 years.
@ReturnToSenda Is there such a thing as an assist assist? The pass that leads to the assist? Reckon Horgs would be high on that, as @Wycombe85 said he's often picking out the players that do most of the assisting.
Yeah, pre-assist / hockey assist, although idk if they're officially recorded - I can't get them myself and I'm not going back through every goal manually...
/secondary assist - which they do officially credit in ice hockey, hence 'hockey assist'. But yeah, I reckon he would rank quite high.
Last 2 seasons:
Horgan 6 in 3,979 mins
GMac 7 in 4,550 mins
Mehmeti 5 in 3,193 mins
Again, assists numbers don't tell you everything cause it's dependent on two players, but yeah!
Only just got home, but I don't agree at all ! I go I the terrace and I thought it was a good atmosphere today... people constantly say this, if true we do really need to sort the acoustics out !
Found some stats on the BBC
Chances created
52 McCleary
49 JJ
30 Vokes
26 Obita
24 McCarthy
23 Horgan
20 Mehmeti
Assists
7 Obita
6 Vokes & McCleary
5 Kaikai & Horgan
4 Mehmeti & Hanlan & JJ
Goals
12 Vokes
8 McCleary
7 Mehmeti & Hanlan
5 Bayo
4 JJ & Tafa
3 Obita
2 Kaikai, Thompson, Grimmer, Stewart, Pendlebury, Wing, Forino, Wheeler
1 Horgan, McCarthy, De Barr
I would be interested to see what our most common goal/chance combos are i.e. who assists / creates for who - Obita x Vokes has got to be up there?
On another note, anyone in the Frank Adams see that guy getting kicked out?
A guy who looked like a bouncer and a police officer spent a fair while staring up to the back of the stand, then took this guy out who looked a bit like "White Yardie" if you've seen Arsenal fan tv?
He then was escorted out while shouting "EFF the police" grinning at some random.
Very odd.
People still moaning about Horgan, sorry you don't know what your talking about. Some of you have voted for Mehmeti to be man of the match, but if it wasn't for Horgan he wouldn't of been able to put that cross in for the first goal !
Anis' goal was very similar to his first for the club v QPR - 'keeper gets a touch, but it looks like the ball suddenly speeds up just before he does. Just coincidence or something to do with shooting technique?
Horgan is a very very good player. But only up the middle. GA played him wide a lot prior to this decent run and he's crap out wide, he can't absolutely rinse a defender in the way GMac or Anis can, but his movement and ability to create space for others to do stuff is superb.
@malone I bumped into him later at a bus stop he was caught on camera swigging from a minitature wine bottle. Very South Bucks ,not lager but wine!> @Malone said:
S
I’m sure I’ve seen him playing well out wide for Ireland. And wasn’t he on the wing for Preston when he destroyed Wycombe?
I like Horgan. His movement off the ball helps so many others.
Felt proud of our club today. From the Bayo tributes, through the applause for the Doncaster person as well as the 18’s lap of honour. No stats to back up these feelings. Sorry.
Thoroughly professional on the pitch today too. Tough conditions at times and a neat and tidy opposition. Hopefully kept plenty in the tank for Tuesday as it really doesn’t look like our promotion rivals are going to slip up.
Ah ok. Strange not to try and be a little subtle and bring it in a plastic bottle or something.
A steward stopped my mate from bringing a can into the carpark! Not sure if he thought it was booze (it wasn't), but arguably a bit odd when 100s are wandering around the carpark with plastic glasses full of booze!
I got kicked out of Revs in Beaco during my student days after I got caught with a hip flask
Did you run through a field of wheat on the way home?
Horgan and Wing did pretty much everything well. Just they didn’t get a chance to do enough of it. The midfield was empty apart from the usual 3 Josh Scowens.