I'm not the greatest singer at the football (though in the shower, I sound like Scott Walker), but I am eternally bemused by the amount of singing abusively at the opposition rather than in support of fans' own teams. It must be really energising as a player to play with fans belting out Delilah, On the Ball City, even Wanderers etc, behind you. But is it anywhere near as motivating to hear the same fans making cheap shots at the opposition? I doubt it.
Maybe @bluntphil could get one of his team of researchers onto this for a Ringing the Blues piece.
PS: For the Wanderers' Lieber & Stoller, or Goffin/King, maybe we could have a play on "Davy Carroll on the wing" for Lewis, our most welcome new recruit.
@mooneyman said: @A_Worboys Won't a rule automatically awarding the match to the opposition encourage a bunch of "home fans" to turn up at a game and go in the away end (or vice versa) chanting abuse in order to get the game abandoned. Or even say MK Dons fans coming to Adams Park when we are playing another team.
Remember the lad that ran on the pitch recently, reportedly had no affiliation with either team.
I used to work with a Bristol Rovers fan who was adamant all their supposed trouble was always City fans doing this.
For me whatever difficulties people see in policing it or whatever people want to defend as banter that chant clearly and obviously crosses the line. Accusing people of being fat, or crap, or the town or the goalie being shit-ah or even celebrating wasting time are all a bit if a yawn but fairly harmless. There are even some funny witty ones. Perhaps I am being too precious but that made me feel quite sick and depressed at the state of things and I sort of lost interest in the game. Not feelings I would willingly put myself through regularly as an afternoon's entertainment if it continued - from any side. I accept it is probably my age, the fact I dont drink as I drive to games and haven't had any nose candy before kickoff!
According to Citizens Advice it would not qualify as a hate crime as the type of offending being sung about is not a protected characteristic. However, causing harassment, alarm or distress is a crime under the Public Order Act 1986.
Verbal abuse like name-calling and offensive jokes only qualifies as a hate incident. But so too do malicious complaints for example over parking. Watch out
@ReturnToSenda said:
Is defamation of character not a crime?
No, as otherwise calling players w@nkers, or cheats or any of that would be the same.
Although it is still "abusive" which in the terms isn't allowed, but many seem to think is ok, as long as it's not "too much".
Comments
Perhaps before the Strikes, there needs to be warnings?
Alternatively, the fans behaviour could improve and we don't need a penal system for offensive chants. Let's hope so.
You raise a good point @Onlooker - if they go down the route of penalties there is certainly going to be grey areas on what is and isn't appropriate.
There are so many rabbit holes that anyone could go down.
I'm not the greatest singer at the football (though in the shower, I sound like Scott Walker), but I am eternally bemused by the amount of singing abusively at the opposition rather than in support of fans' own teams. It must be really energising as a player to play with fans belting out Delilah, On the Ball City, even Wanderers etc, behind you. But is it anywhere near as motivating to hear the same fans making cheap shots at the opposition? I doubt it.
Maybe @bluntphil could get one of his team of researchers onto this for a Ringing the Blues piece.
PS: For the Wanderers' Lieber & Stoller, or Goffin/King, maybe we could have a play on "Davy Carroll on the wing" for Lewis, our most welcome new recruit.
I used to work with a Bristol Rovers fan who was adamant all their supposed trouble was always City fans doing this.
Didn't believe him in fairness.
Now that could be an interesting list, as while that Bayo chant is murky stuff, it's not actually a crime in the way racism etc is.
And technically loads of current songs are "abusive" which isn't allowed in the terms either.
The safest way is to be positive about yourself, rather than abuse anyone else. Probably sage advice in life as a whole!
Is defamation of character not a crime?
Yep, slander
a civil wrong, surely, rather than a crime.
For me whatever difficulties people see in policing it or whatever people want to defend as banter that chant clearly and obviously crosses the line. Accusing people of being fat, or crap, or the town or the goalie being shit-ah or even celebrating wasting time are all a bit if a yawn but fairly harmless. There are even some funny witty ones. Perhaps I am being too precious but that made me feel quite sick and depressed at the state of things and I sort of lost interest in the game. Not feelings I would willingly put myself through regularly as an afternoon's entertainment if it continued - from any side. I accept it is probably my age, the fact I dont drink as I drive to games and haven't had any nose candy before kickoff!
According to Citizens Advice it would not qualify as a hate crime as the type of offending being sung about is not a protected characteristic. However, causing harassment, alarm or distress is a crime under the Public Order Act 1986.
Verbal abuse like name-calling and offensive jokes only qualifies as a hate incident. But so too do malicious complaints for example over parking. Watch out
The idea that trouble may be caused by infiltrators amongst the innocent is a tad Trumpian for me.
@our_frank not heard the Valley End classic "Low lie the fields down the Rye" for a while.
One of your best, @Wendoverman
@peterparrotface Nice one: "Our love was Lewis Wing; we had dreams and songs to sing ...".
Are you Lieber, Stoller, Goffin or King? Maybe more Holland or Dozier or Holland, come to think of it.
No, as otherwise calling players w@nkers, or cheats or any of that would be the same.
Although it is still "abusive" which in the terms isn't allowed, but many seem to think is ok, as long as it's not "too much".
This is a slightly interesting read in the context of the debate around fan behaviour
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/02/wondered-football-fans-on-policeman-beer-loutish-terraces?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
https://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/news/thames-valley/news/2022/january/31-01-2022/appeal-for-witnesses-following-incident--high-wycombe/
I’ll be interested to see what action TVP will take,
I’d have thought our excellent cctv footage could be used. Having been in the control room they can look at anywhere in the stadium in great detail.
I also assume they know the names and addresses of the people in attendance and where they sat from the ticketing records?
Let’s see if they’re so brave when they get the rozzers knock at their door and their “we are MK we sing what we want” mates aren’t there