Look what happened after penicillin...a world war started. And now they're getting closer to much better medication for HIV infection...we'll soon all have to be gay. Its a slippery slope.
If you don't want to get vaccinated, that is your choice - your right, even.
But people don't have to respect that choice (I certainly don't), and don't be surprised when you're not allowed to do certain things because of your own selfishness and/or thickness.
Tom, if I'm still at liberty I will be there (with @OxfordBlue) for you when your line is crossed.
@Onlooker said: @Otter87 plenty out there @DevC my beef with digital passports is that they will go far beyond vaccine status. I didn't need any treatment for COVID - if receiving in the future is conditional on vaccination I wouldn't change my mind. I respect your opinion on restricting my movements, although I'm still not convinced I am putting others at any more risk than someone who is double vaccinated and boosted. As I've said before, I'm concerned about what comes next.
Whether you may personally think that being non vaccinated does not make you more likely to infect others, that does not seem to be the position of the vast majority of scientists.
As such it seems perfectly legitimate to me to restrict your right to mingle unduely with and hence potentially infect others. I judge their rights to outweigh yours in this respect.
I respect your right to choose not to be vaccinated and the consequences that go with it.
I never find “I am concerned with what comes next” arguments remotely convincing. Judge the measures we have now on their merits. If unacceptable measures follow then I would join you in opposing them. History tells me that dire predictions of what “might follow” almost invariably prove to be fantasies.
'Well if Boris Johnson (that also can be replaced by Dominic Cummings or whatever your tipple is) does x then I will too.' This statement to me is a red flag that the person speaking is an utter cnut.
If you want to act like a selfish twat do it. No problem. Just own it. Just say I want to be a twat and be proud of that statement. Don't do the cowardly thing by trying to blame the actions of others, that's not how freedom works. Just shout it loud and proud and let your friends and family know the real you. When your friend has the operation cancelled tell them 'it's because I'm a twat', when your colleague who is undergoing chemo gets sick text them 'my choices caused that', etc
JUST DON'T SHIFT YOUR ACTIONS ON OTHERS
@Onlooker said: @Otter87 plenty out there @DevC my beef with digital passports is that they will go far beyond vaccine status. I didn't need any treatment for COVID - if receiving in the future is conditional on vaccination I wouldn't change my mind. I respect your opinion on restricting my movements, although I'm still not convinced I am putting others at any more risk than someone who is double vaccinated and boosted. As I've said before, I'm concerned about what comes next.
Whether you may personally think that being non vaccinated does not make you more likely to infect others, that does not seem to be the position of the vast majority of scientists.
As such it seems perfectly legitimate to me to restrict your right to mingle unduely with and hence potentially infect others. I judge their rights to outweigh yours in this respect.
I respect your right to choose not to be vaccinated and the consequences that go with it.
I never find “I am concerned with what comes next” arguments remotely convincing. Judge the measures we have now on their merits. If unacceptable measures follow then I would join you in opposing them. History tells me that dire predictions of what “might follow” almost invariably prove to be fantasies.
I do hope you are right @DevC and appreciate your courtesy
My country's scientists worked tirelessly to create a vaccine effective against a world-wide pandemic and then my government supplied me with said vaccine free of charge and for everyone with no fear or favour. That's the sort of thing that makes me proud. Rest of the empty noise is just that.
You seem a reasonable person @Onlooker but I just can’t comprehend your logic at all.
If you really think the government are trying to control you then you are wrong, as they can’t even control themselves.
Boris Johnson hasn’t helped you with your trust issues as he is obviously a lying, pompous, scruffy arsehole.
Please get the jab @Onlooker, I would not want to see you and your family get seriously ill with this virus.
My wife and I had the virus very early on in the first March of the outbreak. We went to Brighton a few days before Johnson imposed the lockdown and unfortunately we sat near a group of young Italian tourists and at that time Italy was rife with COVID.
We struggled badly for three weeks and both being asthmatic we were very lucky to get away with it.
I do hope you are right @DevC and appreciate your courtesy
Worth saying in addition that if "covid status" is required at Adams Park (I read it that it will be from next week) the requirement will be that you either have to prove vaccination status OR supply a negative lateral flow test. I believe you do have to have downloaded the NHS App to do this too though - not sure if its vaccination or the App you are most worried about.
I do hope you are right @DevC and appreciate your courtesy
Worth saying in addition that if "covid status" is required at Adams Park (I read it that it will be from next week) the requirement will be that you either have to prove vaccination status OR supply a negative lateral flow test. I believe you do have to have downloaded the NHS App to do this too though - not sure if its vaccination or the App you are most worried about.
At places that I have been requiring proof of vaccination they accept the card or the app. Pretty easy. In all fairness even foreign travel is pretty straight-forward, just a little more involved than before. I personally don't think any of the current restrictions make me feel like an oppressed mass.
I wouldn't hesitate if I was 70+, had comorbidities or was obese.
I'm concerned that the pandemic/vaccines are being used as a pretext to bring in digital passports.
Mate of mine caught it, aged under 40 and was fit and healthy. Spent 5 months in hospital and it led to a stroke. A neighbour had it too when at one point 3 of his household were all hospitalised, unfortunately he never came home. Not obese or 70 either.
My sister lost a good friend and his wife to Covid (both in their late 50s but perfectly healthy) because they were refusing to have the vaccination, wear masks or socially distance having been persuaded by online experts it was pointless...their 35 year old daughter who lived with them is still in a coma. I fear the ranks of those brave enough to resist mind control might end up too thin to keep Lawrence Fox in party funds.
@Otter87 said: @Onlooker How old are you? (If you don't mind me asking?) Did you read my last sentence on my long post? 9 patients who are between 25 & 45 won't be going home to see their family for Christmas this year because they "don't believe" in the vaccine / virus. These patients are normal people, the virus has just attacked them / taken hold more on them which is why they are struggling.
I'm 50 years old and I've had COVID so of course I believe in it.
@Onlooker said: @Blue_since_1990 Yes, I know people who died and Covid-19 on their death certificates.
Not enjoyed 'bring an antivaxer to work' day if I am honest.
No problem with the few who don't want to get vaccinated but please stop trying to preach to those who have. You are essentially too late if Bill Gates is monitoring our lives.
@Blue_since_1990 said:
You seem a reasonable person @Onlooker but I just can’t comprehend your logic at all.
If you really think the government are trying to control you then you are wrong, as they can’t even control themselves.
Boris Johnson hasn’t helped you with your trust issues as he is obviously a lying, pompous, scruffy arsehole.
Please get the jab @Onlooker, I would not want to see you and your family get seriously ill with this virus.
My wife and I had the virus very early on in the first March of the outbreak. We went to Brighton a few days before Johnson imposed the lockdown and unfortunately we sat near a group of young Italian tourists and at that time Italy was rife with COVID.
We struggled badly for three weeks and both being asthmatic we were very lucky to get away with it.
Thanks @Blue_since_1990 I do agree the government has been particularly shambolic, but as you know the direction of travel is really concerning me. I am sorry you and your wife had such a dreadful bout. That was awful luck contracting it then. I do appreciate your sentiments regarding getting the vaccine myself, but the rest of the family have all had theirs and subsequently COVID (thankfully mild as mine was) for good measure. I believe that leaves them as protected as they can be until the next booster.
@Otter87 said: @Onlooker How old are you? (If you don't mind me asking?) Did you read my last sentence on my long post? 9 patients who are between 25 & 45 won't be going home to see their family for Christmas this year because they "don't believe" in the vaccine / virus. These patients are normal people, the virus has just attacked them / taken hold more on them which is why they are struggling.
I'm 50 years old and I've had COVID so of course I believe in it.
@Onlooker said: @Blue_since_1990 Yes, I know people who died and Covid-19 on their death certificates.
I wonder who killed them. ?
I hear the "they died with covid, not necessarily from it" pish argument a lot. People who died of other things as a result of not getting treatment or whilst waiting for their ambulance to turn up as it and it's staff had been busy in a queue in a car park all day should arguably all be counted too.
I do hope you are right @DevC and appreciate your courtesy
Worth saying in addition that if "covid status" is required at Adams Park (I read it that it will be from next week) the requirement will be that you either have to prove vaccination status OR supply a negative lateral flow test. I believe you do have to have downloaded the NHS App to do this too though - not sure if its vaccination or the App you are most worried about.
Thanks @Dev I have some lateral flow tests so would be able to do that if NHS App was not mandatory.
I think that @Onlooker has stated quite clearly his position regards vaccination & use of Covid passports.
And he's perfectly entitled to hold those views, we should respect his decision rather than try to belittle him.
My own personal view is that if he isn't going to get vaccinated or take daily tests to prove he isn't going to pass Covid to others - and in fairness how many of us really know for sure we aren't passing on the virus to others - then don't be surprised if you're "freedom" is restricted to protect others.
So how exactly does someone present a negative LFT. I for instance have a lateral flow test kit at home and could do one on the morning of the game if needed. However how does anyone prove that it was that person who actually produced the negative test unless it was confirmed by an independent body?
I am fully jabbed and boosted (that sounds weird) but am interested exactly how this process is going to work and how does anyone present the result if they use a home kit or are we expected to do it at a centre?
I have exactly the same respect for @Onlooker's decision as I do for someone who decides to drive home after 10 pints, or randomly throw bricks at passing cars.
Also, lateral flow tests are not accepted anywhere as proof, you have to get PCR.
After all this debate it is pretty clear that it would be impossible for the stewards/turnstile staff to enforce any checking even with our meagre fanbase so it is unlikely there will be much in the way of it going on.
I've got both cards if need be.
@Wendoverman said:
After all this debate it is pretty clear that it would be impossible for the stewards/turnstile staff to enforce any checking even with our meagre fanbase so it is unlikely there will be much in the way of it going on.
I've got both cards if need be.
They won't be able to check everyone but it's all about cutting the chances of transmission rather than excluding all risk. It's not impossible at all , they check tickets, it'll just take longer. I think they'll want to show they are making an effort if they want to avoid games being played behind closed doors again.
I find a majority of 'the lizard people' are on the spectrum.... My cousin has been banging on about the earth being flat, Michelle Obama being a man, all football matches are fixed etc etc for years to a point a lot of our family don't talk to him..... surprise surprise he's an anti-vaxer and believes covid is a cold.....
My wife's brother is also an anti-vaxer and believes covid isn't real. He also believes the Queen is a clone now and the real Queen died years ago. The reason, so her face can be kept on the bank notes until we go cashless?♂️?♂️.
@bigred87 said:
I find a majority of 'the lizard people' are on the spectrum.... My cousin has been banging on about the earth being flat, Michelle Obama being a man, all football matches are fixed etc etc for years to a point a lot of our family don't talk to him..... surprise surprise he's an anti-vaxer and believes covid is a cold.....
My wife's brother is also an anti-vaxer and believes covid isn't real. He also believes the Queen is a clone now and the real Queen died years ago. The reason, so her face can be kept on the bank notes until we go cashless?♂️?♂️.
@Lloyd2084 said:
It’s completely useless if people can pretend to have a neg lateral flow.
Since you still have to obtain the LFT kit, for its unique reference code that you scan into the NHS App why wouldn't you take the test?
True you can lie about the result but are most people really that uncaring?
Comments
Look what happened after penicillin...a world war started. And now they're getting closer to much better medication for HIV infection...we'll soon all have to be gay. Its a slippery slope.
Tom, if I'm still at liberty I will be there (with @OxfordBlue) for you when your line is crossed.
Whether you may personally think that being non vaccinated does not make you more likely to infect others, that does not seem to be the position of the vast majority of scientists.
As such it seems perfectly legitimate to me to restrict your right to mingle unduely with and hence potentially infect others. I judge their rights to outweigh yours in this respect.
I respect your right to choose not to be vaccinated and the consequences that go with it.
I never find “I am concerned with what comes next” arguments remotely convincing. Judge the measures we have now on their merits. If unacceptable measures follow then I would join you in opposing them. History tells me that dire predictions of what “might follow” almost invariably prove to be fantasies.
'Well if Boris Johnson (that also can be replaced by Dominic Cummings or whatever your tipple is) does x then I will too.' This statement to me is a red flag that the person speaking is an utter cnut.
If you want to act like a selfish twat do it. No problem. Just own it. Just say I want to be a twat and be proud of that statement. Don't do the cowardly thing by trying to blame the actions of others, that's not how freedom works. Just shout it loud and proud and let your friends and family know the real you. When your friend has the operation cancelled tell them 'it's because I'm a twat', when your colleague who is undergoing chemo gets sick text them 'my choices caused that', etc
JUST DON'T SHIFT YOUR ACTIONS ON OTHERS
I do hope you are right @DevC and appreciate your courtesy
My country's scientists worked tirelessly to create a vaccine effective against a world-wide pandemic and then my government supplied me with said vaccine free of charge and for everyone with no fear or favour. That's the sort of thing that makes me proud. Rest of the empty noise is just that.
You seem a reasonable person @Onlooker but I just can’t comprehend your logic at all.
If you really think the government are trying to control you then you are wrong, as they can’t even control themselves.
Boris Johnson hasn’t helped you with your trust issues as he is obviously a lying, pompous, scruffy arsehole.
Please get the jab @Onlooker, I would not want to see you and your family get seriously ill with this virus.
My wife and I had the virus very early on in the first March of the outbreak. We went to Brighton a few days before Johnson imposed the lockdown and unfortunately we sat near a group of young Italian tourists and at that time Italy was rife with COVID.
We struggled badly for three weeks and both being asthmatic we were very lucky to get away with it.
It is perfectly possible (even online....) to disagree yet remain courteous> @Onlooker said:
Worth saying in addition that if "covid status" is required at Adams Park (I read it that it will be from next week) the requirement will be that you either have to prove vaccination status OR supply a negative lateral flow test. I believe you do have to have downloaded the NHS App to do this too though - not sure if its vaccination or the App you are most worried about.
At places that I have been requiring proof of vaccination they accept the card or the app. Pretty easy. In all fairness even foreign travel is pretty straight-forward, just a little more involved than before. I personally don't think any of the current restrictions make me feel like an oppressed mass.
Mate of mine caught it, aged under 40 and was fit and healthy. Spent 5 months in hospital and it led to a stroke. A neighbour had it too when at one point 3 of his household were all hospitalised, unfortunately he never came home. Not obese or 70 either.
My sister lost a good friend and his wife to Covid (both in their late 50s but perfectly healthy) because they were refusing to have the vaccination, wear masks or socially distance having been persuaded by online experts it was pointless...their 35 year old daughter who lived with them is still in a coma. I fear the ranks of those brave enough to resist mind control might end up too thin to keep Lawrence Fox in party funds.
I wonder who killed them. ?
Now let's look at this "Digital Passport" the lizard-people believers have told you to be worried about...
Not enjoyed 'bring an antivaxer to work' day if I am honest.
No problem with the few who don't want to get vaccinated but please stop trying to preach to those who have. You are essentially too late if Bill Gates is monitoring our lives.
Thanks @Blue_since_1990 I do agree the government has been particularly shambolic, but as you know the direction of travel is really concerning me. I am sorry you and your wife had such a dreadful bout. That was awful luck contracting it then. I do appreciate your sentiments regarding getting the vaccine myself, but the rest of the family have all had theirs and subsequently COVID (thankfully mild as mine was) for good measure. I believe that leaves them as protected as they can be until the next booster.
I hear the "they died with covid, not necessarily from it" pish argument a lot. People who died of other things as a result of not getting treatment or whilst waiting for their ambulance to turn up as it and it's staff had been busy in a queue in a car park all day should arguably all be counted too.
Thanks @Dev I have some lateral flow tests so would be able to do that if NHS App was not mandatory.
I think that @Onlooker has stated quite clearly his position regards vaccination & use of Covid passports.
And he's perfectly entitled to hold those views, we should respect his decision rather than try to belittle him.
My own personal view is that if he isn't going to get vaccinated or take daily tests to prove he isn't going to pass Covid to others - and in fairness how many of us really know for sure we aren't passing on the virus to others - then don't be surprised if you're "freedom" is restricted to protect others.
So how exactly does someone present a negative LFT. I for instance have a lateral flow test kit at home and could do one on the morning of the game if needed. However how does anyone prove that it was that person who actually produced the negative test unless it was confirmed by an independent body?
I am fully jabbed and boosted (that sounds weird) but am interested exactly how this process is going to work and how does anyone present the result if they use a home kit or are we expected to do it at a centre?
I have exactly the same respect for @Onlooker's decision as I do for someone who decides to drive home after 10 pints, or randomly throw bricks at passing cars.
Also, lateral flow tests are not accepted anywhere as proof, you have to get PCR.
After all this debate it is pretty clear that it would be impossible for the stewards/turnstile staff to enforce any checking even with our meagre fanbase so it is unlikely there will be much in the way of it going on.
I've got both cards if need be.
They won't be able to check everyone but it's all about cutting the chances of transmission rather than excluding all risk. It's not impossible at all , they check tickets, it'll just take longer. I think they'll want to show they are making an effort if they want to avoid games being played behind closed doors again.
I think (in a late sop to the likes of Steve Baker) a lateral flow can now get you a 48 hour NHS Covid Pass. See 'How long a digital NHS Covid Pass is valid for' https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/get-digital-covid-pass/
I find a majority of 'the lizard people' are on the spectrum.... My cousin has been banging on about the earth being flat, Michelle Obama being a man, all football matches are fixed etc etc for years to a point a lot of our family don't talk to him..... surprise surprise he's an anti-vaxer and believes covid is a cold.....
My wife's brother is also an anti-vaxer and believes covid isn't real. He also believes the Queen is a clone now and the real Queen died years ago. The reason, so her face can be kept on the bank notes until we go cashless?♂️?♂️.
Both are on the spectrum.
Way to stereotype a vulnerable group
Lateral flows good enough confirms Johnson.
Apparently NHS App scans bar code on the test and then you type in positive or negative.
Doesn’t seem entirely foolproof……
Oh dear so you just have to type in positive or negative. As you say not foolproof and open to abuse. What a shambles this government is.
It’s completely useless if people can pretend to have a neg lateral flow.
Since you still have to obtain the LFT kit, for its unique reference code that you scan into the NHS App why wouldn't you take the test?
True you can lie about the result but are most people really that uncaring?
Boris Johnson is @Twizz