Have to admit the Scowen incident before the penalty the other week wasn't great. Maybe he was genuinely injured, but it's not good that the stretcher was called for and he's then running around as if nothings happened a few minutes later.
That said, on the other side of the coin, that was a hell of a whack he took from Smith in the opening minute on Tuesday. He seemed to be limping the entire game after that, I was surprised he lasted the 90 minutes.
I think we probably did take advantage of a few knocks on Tuesday. The break whilst McCarthy got treatment did help take the sting out of the momentum Rotherham were building up. That said, he did get smashed in the back pretty hard. I think in that situation most players would opt for a little breather! Certainly didn't see any evidence of the diving we were being accused off (although I have seen it in the past).
generally (and I'm excluding you from this, Mr Wycombe) I don't think we do dive. What we have clearly got down to the finest art under Ainsworth is drawing the foul, in which Wanderers player sees a ball he can get to just ahead of an opponent, positions himself between said opponent and ball, and then just waits for impact. From a fan's perspective, if you support a team whose professionals don't understand that, then you should be pretty disappointed in those professionals, in my opinion.
@our_frank said:
generally (and I'm excluding you from this, Mr Wycombe) I don't think we do dive. What we have clearly got down to the finest art under Ainsworth is drawing the foul, in which Wanderers player sees a ball he can get to just ahead of an opponent, positions himself between said opponent and ball, and then just waits for impact. From a fan's perspective, if you support a team whose professionals don't understand that, then you should be pretty disappointed in those professionals, in my opinion.
I must admit I was very disappointed with the Scowen thing as, like others, I did think he was injured and given his good form and what had happened to Nick Freeman I was seriously worried. I had not seen him wandering about before he went down as we were discussing the pen amongst ourselves. Though I was pleased they missed the pen, I was unhappy that once he hopped back on it looked like a gamesmanship thing. Not something I am keen on. I can take the pulling, long time taking goal-kicks, going down, etc etc as I reckon that is the ref's job to get a grip on...and we are often penalised for it...but for me that was grim. (other less po-faced opinions are available)
I'm convinced it has become a tactic of ours to get the trainer to come on to disrupt the momentum of the opposition. There was a 10 minute spell on Tuesday when they were all over us. A lengthy injury break then resulted in us taking control for the last 10-15 minutes of the game and camping at their end of the pitch.
I was really frustrated with how long Horgan and McCleary took to leave the pitch, both should have been booked.
IMHO it sends the wrong message out. It conveys to the opposition that getting one point was more important than taking all 3. I hate it, we were good enough to win that match Tuesday if there had been slightly less focus on disrupting Rotherham and a little more on playing to our strengths.
I thought we looked a bit toothless at times without Hanlan, he does the unexpected and also his pace puts defences on the back foot. Whilst Horgan worked hard and passed the ball nicely, he never really looked threatening. I'd like to Hanlan back in for the weekend, maybe even Kaikai gets a start to give McCleary a rest.
Has anyone read Football in Sun and Shadow? Eduardo Galeano paints a hilariously cynical but extremely accurate picture of the 'art' of shithousery. And we are bloody good artists. I'd rather we took the piss a bit than kicked lumps out of the opposition (although that's what everyone seems to think we do...).
Just for the record, I don't think we "dive" at all, by the way. At least not since Bloomfield and Samuel no longer made the playing squad.
What we do do though, and I'd have thought this is indisputable, is stay down "injured" when there is nothing wrong with us and slow the game down that way
@our_frank said:
generally (and I'm excluding you from this, Mr Wycombe) I don't think we do dive. What we have clearly got down to the finest art under Ainsworth is drawing the foul, in which Wanderers player sees a ball he can get to just ahead of an opponent, positions himself between said opponent and ball, and then just waits for impact. From a fan's perspective, if you support a team whose professionals don't understand that, then you should be pretty disappointed in those professionals, in my opinion.
Since the departure of Kashket and Samuel and the semi retirement of Bloomfield we have lost all the usual suspects for diving
Could well be that if players are hurt in a challenge then they're told to wait until they know if they're ok or not, rather than always trying to play through it.
Players get knocks all the time in game which don't force them off, but if you can get it checked over/ the game stopped rather than risk not being in the right position/ switching off because of a challenge, why wouldn't you? 9/10 times it makes no difference, but the one time that knock stops you defending properly that could cost you a goal and points.
@ReturnToSenda said:
I and others around me thought Scowen was seriously injured - but in the end we just had to applaud the shithousery. I mean, it worked ?♂️
Big Phil said in his commentary something about Scowen never goes down unless he's really been crocked.
Seemingly forgetting the pen incident a mere game or 2 back.
Oh dear. The Sunderland fans are joining in now under the banner of 'only 39 minutes of the ball in play' we are really not very popular. Round of applause at 39 minutes every game?
@Malone said:
In fairness we did eventually cut out the very obviously pre determined tactics of one player taking an age to do their laces up after scoring a goal.
We did that repeatedly a few seasons back.
This has now been replaced by grabbing the ball out of the net and running off with it.
@Malone said:
In fairness we did eventually cut out the very obviously pre determined tactics of one player taking an age to do their laces up after scoring a goal.
We did that repeatedly a few seasons back.
This has now been replaced by grabbing the ball out of the net and running off with it.
Have to chuckle.
We did that at one game then booted it out the stadium.
Although I'm sure the opponent did the same when they scored as payback.
@Malone said:
In fairness we did eventually cut out the very obviously pre determined tactics of one player taking an age to do their laces up after scoring a goal.
We did that repeatedly a few seasons back.
This has now been replaced by grabbing the ball out of the net and running off with it.
Have to chuckle.
We did that at one game then booted it out the stadium.
Although I'm sure the opponent did the same when they scored as payback.
I'm sure there was a game last season or the season before where JJ grabbed it and drop-kicked it over the terrace after a stoppage-time winner/equaliser? His ability to stay so aware in those situations is such an asset.
@Malone said:
In fairness we did eventually cut out the very obviously pre determined tactics of one player taking an age to do their laces up after scoring a goal.
We did that repeatedly a few seasons back.
This has now been replaced by grabbing the ball out of the net and running off with it.
Have to chuckle.
We did that at one game then booted it out the stadium.
Although I'm sure the opponent did the same when they scored as payback.
I'm sure there was a game last season or the season before where JJ grabbed it and drop-kicked it over the terrace after a stoppage-time winner/equaliser? His ability to stay so aware in those situations is such an asset.
Strange, as in one way it's very blatant, but in another, it's a lot more easy for the ref to miss than when a player just holding it and the inevitable barging in the goal mouth.
I'm with Eric on this, I hate the time wasting, the ref only adds on time at the end anyway, its why our matches always finish last. Also, I didn't think for one minute that Scowen was injured the other week, and fully expected him to be running around minutes later, though admit the mind games worked on the penalty taker
@HolmerBlue said:
I'm with Eric on this, I hate the time wasting, the ref only adds on time at the end anyway, its why our matches always finish last. Also, I didn't think for one minute that Scowen was injured the other week, and fully expected him to be running around minutes later, though admit the mind games worked on the penalty taker
Surely it’s about the disruption of play as opposed to time wasting, I think that’s the main reason it’s done.
It's seems really bizarre that if we had players with the silky skills of a Salah, Grealish or Messi no one would have any qualms about them using those skills to win a match.
Yet, when we have players with expertise in the "dark arts" - Scowen's injury, JJ's ability to win a free kick etc. - everyone gets all high and mighty that it's "not cricket" to use those skills to gain an advantage.
Man City have for several seasons been quite cynical in fouling the opposition to avoid being beaten on the counter attack. I hate that but as always it's up to the referee to determine when and how to punish the offences.
People (opposition fans) need to get real and appreciate our current squads abilities and weaknesses. If they had the "natural football ability" of Salah, Grealish or Messi they probably wouldn't be playing for WWFC.
Personally I just love our ability to s**thouse and beat those teams with higher opinions of themselves.
@Quarterman said:
The fixture list is really odd this year (exacerbated by international postponements). Now we have 5 home games in the next 6 matches!
Comments
Have to admit the Scowen incident before the penalty the other week wasn't great. Maybe he was genuinely injured, but it's not good that the stretcher was called for and he's then running around as if nothings happened a few minutes later.
That said, on the other side of the coin, that was a hell of a whack he took from Smith in the opening minute on Tuesday. He seemed to be limping the entire game after that, I was surprised he lasted the 90 minutes.
I think we probably did take advantage of a few knocks on Tuesday. The break whilst McCarthy got treatment did help take the sting out of the momentum Rotherham were building up. That said, he did get smashed in the back pretty hard. I think in that situation most players would opt for a little breather! Certainly didn't see any evidence of the diving we were being accused off (although I have seen it in the past).
generally (and I'm excluding you from this, Mr Wycombe) I don't think we do dive. What we have clearly got down to the finest art under Ainsworth is drawing the foul, in which Wanderers player sees a ball he can get to just ahead of an opponent, positions himself between said opponent and ball, and then just waits for impact. From a fan's perspective, if you support a team whose professionals don't understand that, then you should be pretty disappointed in those professionals, in my opinion.
No more famous example than Fred at Wembley
I must admit I was very disappointed with the Scowen thing as, like others, I did think he was injured and given his good form and what had happened to Nick Freeman I was seriously worried. I had not seen him wandering about before he went down as we were discussing the pen amongst ourselves. Though I was pleased they missed the pen, I was unhappy that once he hopped back on it looked like a gamesmanship thing. Not something I am keen on. I can take the pulling, long time taking goal-kicks, going down, etc etc as I reckon that is the ref's job to get a grip on...and we are often penalised for it...but for me that was grim. (other less po-faced opinions are available)
agreed @Wendoverman . Whilst I think that Josh generally walks on water, that stuck in my craw.
I'm convinced it has become a tactic of ours to get the trainer to come on to disrupt the momentum of the opposition. There was a 10 minute spell on Tuesday when they were all over us. A lengthy injury break then resulted in us taking control for the last 10-15 minutes of the game and camping at their end of the pitch.
I was really frustrated with how long Horgan and McCleary took to leave the pitch, both should have been booked.
IMHO it sends the wrong message out. It conveys to the opposition that getting one point was more important than taking all 3. I hate it, we were good enough to win that match Tuesday if there had been slightly less focus on disrupting Rotherham and a little more on playing to our strengths.
I thought we looked a bit toothless at times without Hanlan, he does the unexpected and also his pace puts defences on the back foot. Whilst Horgan worked hard and passed the ball nicely, he never really looked threatening. I'd like to Hanlan back in for the weekend, maybe even Kaikai gets a start to give McCleary a rest.
Has anyone read Football in Sun and Shadow? Eduardo Galeano paints a hilariously cynical but extremely accurate picture of the 'art' of shithousery. And we are bloody good artists. I'd rather we took the piss a bit than kicked lumps out of the opposition (although that's what everyone seems to think we do...).
If it helps us get enough points for promotion then I am more than happy with the physio being our 12th man.
Just for the record, I don't think we "dive" at all, by the way. At least not since Bloomfield and Samuel no longer made the playing squad.
What we do do though, and I'd have thought this is indisputable, is stay down "injured" when there is nothing wrong with us and slow the game down that way
Since the departure of Kashket and Samuel and the semi retirement of Bloomfield we have lost all the usual suspects for diving
Could well be that if players are hurt in a challenge then they're told to wait until they know if they're ok or not, rather than always trying to play through it.
Players get knocks all the time in game which don't force them off, but if you can get it checked over/ the game stopped rather than risk not being in the right position/ switching off because of a challenge, why wouldn't you? 9/10 times it makes no difference, but the one time that knock stops you defending properly that could cost you a goal and points.
With you on that one @Username
Big Phil said in his commentary something about Scowen never goes down unless he's really been crocked.
Seemingly forgetting the pen incident a mere game or 2 back.
In fairness we did eventually cut out the very obviously pre determined tactics of one player taking an age to do their laces up after scoring a goal.
We did that repeatedly a few seasons back.
Oh dear. The Sunderland fans are joining in now under the banner of 'only 39 minutes of the ball in play' we are really not very popular. Round of applause at 39 minutes every game?
This has now been replaced by grabbing the ball out of the net and running off with it.
@Wendoverman And there was me thinking they were going to applaud us for being top of the Fair Play league...
But you forget @LeedsBlue , that is surely only because referees...even former Premier League ones...fall for our blatant s***housery every game.
I did a bit of digging and discovered that our HOME match v Rotherham in the Championship saw the ball in play for only 35 minutes...
We'd have a smashing time if tifos were a thing in English football
Have to chuckle.
We did that at one game then booted it out the stadium.
Although I'm sure the opponent did the same when they scored as payback.
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVQoseWAm3R/?utm_medium=copy_link
Quite funny from Pompey fans. 8 minute chant
@thecatwwfc Is that the "We've got the ball!" / "We've lost the ball!" one? Absolutely brilliant.
I'm sure there was a game last season or the season before where JJ grabbed it and drop-kicked it over the terrace after a stoppage-time winner/equaliser? His ability to stay so aware in those situations is such an asset.
Strange, as in one way it's very blatant, but in another, it's a lot more easy for the ref to miss than when a player just holding it and the inevitable barging in the goal mouth.
I'm with Eric on this, I hate the time wasting, the ref only adds on time at the end anyway, its why our matches always finish last. Also, I didn't think for one minute that Scowen was injured the other week, and fully expected him to be running around minutes later, though admit the mind games worked on the penalty taker
Surely it’s about the disruption of play as opposed to time wasting, I think that’s the main reason it’s done.
As you say, the referee adds on the time anyway.
It's seems really bizarre that if we had players with the silky skills of a Salah, Grealish or Messi no one would have any qualms about them using those skills to win a match.
Yet, when we have players with expertise in the "dark arts" - Scowen's injury, JJ's ability to win a free kick etc. - everyone gets all high and mighty that it's "not cricket" to use those skills to gain an advantage.
Man City have for several seasons been quite cynical in fouling the opposition to avoid being beaten on the counter attack. I hate that but as always it's up to the referee to determine when and how to punish the offences.
People (opposition fans) need to get real and appreciate our current squads abilities and weaknesses. If they had the "natural football ability" of Salah, Grealish or Messi they probably wouldn't be playing for WWFC.
Personally I just love our ability to s**thouse and beat those teams with higher opinions of themselves.
Whaaaat?! Hadn’t realised that!