I take your point about the contact but I’m effectively saying that I’d penalise Kashket for obstruction before that. My initial perception, tending to be confirmed by the replay, was that he put himself where he did to bring about contact from which he could fall over rather than to compete for the ball.
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“IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.”
I don’t think Scotty was moving into the keepers path, but rather taking up his position for the ball to come to him/them both. So not obstruction in my view from a single viewing
Whereas my perception, both initially and on the replay, was that Scotty was doing exactly as described in that (helpful, thank you!) definition of impeding. He moved into the keeper's path with no meaningful intention to challenge for the ball, as evidenced by that fact that the keeper shoved him out of the way some time and space from the point where he cleared the ball.
I guess there's a spectrum with impeding at one end and positioning to challenge for the ball at the other. For my money, Scott was very much the wrong side of halfway on this one.
I was going to give my customary "why did we ship Nick Freeman out?" rant, but it's getting increasingly hard to feel motivated to speculate on the reasons for the Grand Canyon between us and the teams above.
Watford looked a solid side didn't they. Better than us tonight that is for sure. They had better players with a bit more pace and a bit more quality when it mattered. I wonder how they got those players and built that side? We are in the same league after all.
Having said all that if we were a bit more switched on when they broke and had a slightly better timed run from Wheeler we are well in that game.
I'm just wondering if Rob Couhig's no more little Wycombe mantra has left some with more to moan about as we try to compete in this league.
He wasn’t penalised either for obstruction nor offside / both indirect free kicks indicated by the referees raised arm. He was penalised for a foul - that I think was deemed bad enough to receive a yellow card for but as I said I’ve only seen it the once as I was on Sky bonus stream tonight as didn’t get round to buying ifollow as wasn’t sure I’d be around to watch until a few minutes after the match started.
@HCblue said:
I wouldn’t disagree, @malone, but I’d never give him the pen because he obviously put himself in the keeper’s way to bring about contact as keeper legitimately went to the ball, with the intention of falling and writhing when that contact happened. He had no intent to challenge for the ball at all. I’ve no time for that kind of gamesmanship. You’ll wait a long time to hear me describe that sort of thing as “clever”.
I didn't even think he was trying to buy contact, like a lot of players do.
I thought he was just standing there, and not even trying to back in like Samuel did to Foster in the reverse game.
But you surely can't come out, lash someone in the head, knocking them over, get nowhere near the ball, and get off scott free?
I'd have to see it again though.
I take your point about the contact but I’m effectively saying that I’d penalise Kashket for obstruction before that. My initial perception, tending to be confirmed by the replay, was that he put himself where he did to bring about contact from which he could fall over rather than to compete for the ball.
Luckily, it's not one we can count as a hard luck story, that late in the game.
We certainly didn't lose tonight because of any bad decisions.
It probably feels foolish to be too down, as we've lost to two of the top 3 the last 2 games. These were the ones we always knew were "freebies" as such.
It's just that initial surge of excitement of a late run, with Uche and Tafa back has utterly disintegrated now.
To me it’s pretty obvious that when a loose ball is in the air in the box then the striker is well within his rights to put himself in position where the ball is about to drop. The keeper then punches his in the head in order to get to the ball. A clear foul and a penalty.
It is a minor point really as we were nowhere near getting anything from that game. I don’t think we did that much wrong but Watford are clearly a much better side than us. They played reasonably well and were comfortable winners.
@aloysius said:
It's interesting how far down Muskwe is in the pecking order (above or below Samuel though?) and Adeniran looks like he's now just B-team filler. I add my voice to those wondering why Gape is played ahead of Thompson and Ofoborh, and while I still don't get Mehmeti as an individual, I do get the importance of playing with an attacking midfield playmaker, which Horgan is not.
We're playing a team at the top of the table, losing is not shameful. But this goes to the heart of Rob Couhig's note - we need to play with our heart on our sleeves, aiming for glorious football even if we lose in the process. Playing boring, defensive hoofball is going to be ineffective, even if we're hitting it up to Ikpeazu rather than Bayo.
Adeniran's demise from the initial thoughts, of wow, this is a championship midfielder, after the with all due respect, hapless early turnouts of Pattison, Bloomfield etc, down to not even getting a few mins off the bench, has been a real disappointment.
You wonder why we bothered to bring Oforborh back too. Hardly been involved.
And goodness knows what Admiral must think.
It's like Gaz has realised he needs a strong squad, but slightly overdone the numbers in certain positions.
was I watching the same Kashket incident? The ref quite clearly signalled Kashket was offside, which seemed to be borne out by the replay. And Kasket wasn't booked. Indeed, I don't think anybody was in the match.
@our_frank said:
was I watching the same Kashket incident? The ref quite clearly signalled Kashket was offside, which seemed to be borne out by the replay. And Kasket wasn't booked. Indeed, I don't think anybody was in the match.
Thanks for clarifying he wasn’t booked. Thought I saw the ref produce the card but as said I only saw it once without benefit of replay.
We made a decent fist of things. Were not given a sniff in front of goal. Horgan a passenger when it comes to creating anything (again his position might be the issue or he might not be up to it).
I don’t have a problem with our last 2 performances far superior opposition. It’s a shame we didn’t show the same quality v some of the lesser teams. We might of had a fighting chance going into the last dozen games.
Feel quite deflated after that one. Watford are a very good side, but I don't think we did ourselves justice at all. There was no way anything was going to come of us playing the way we did. Far too much hit and hope. No shots on target. Uche fighting a losing battle up front, too often no-one up to support him. Not really sure why Kashket has been so out of favour in the second half of the season, he had a couple of games where he missed some decent chances, but I'd still have backed him to return to form fairly quickly. As for Adeniran, I just don't know what's happened there. By far the best ball-playing midfielder in the early part of the season, to nothing. Is he still carrying an injury, I wonder?
Gareth's football philosophy seems to have unravelled at this level. Watching the opposition each week dominate possession must start to eat away at your confidence to carry out the ideas, you have been working on in training.
Tonight whilst still running and chasing, it looks like the players have lost belief in the route 1 tactic bearing any fruits.
The reality of the situation is that we unfortunately do not have enough Championship quality players . We have put together a good League 1 squad and tried to compete. We have tried our best, both management and players but we have come up short on most levels. Hopefully we can keep most of the squad and have a go next season and get back in the Championship because the miracle is not going to happen.
Disappointing tonight, too much Wycombe long ball. Didn’t Watford press well up front and force Wycombe into the long ball?
...and then watford’s passing was so much better.
Also watford’s movement off the ball was cleverer...that’s a championship/prem level difference.
Their first goal...lots of our men move to the ball. Their man moves away into space, gets the cut through pass that takes Joe out of play and crosses for the goal.
Reminded me a bit of the Swansea game tonight in that the opposition were just so comfortable. I feel they could even have gone up a gear or two if they'd needed to.
Very disappointing, especially as we all know a few Watford fans and would all have been talking up our chances during the build up.
But you look at the two line ups and how much the players cost and how much they're paid and what should we really expect, regardless of what Rob Couhig says?
@micra said:
Hard to stay optimistic (or even very interested) after that. Glad it was free.
So not bothering on Saturday?
I may give it a miss. You never know, they might somehow sneak a win but not with the oddly deployed, miscast midfield and shapeless disjointed performance we witnessed tonight. I was concerned before kickoff when I saw that Anis Mehmeti wasn’t starting. But I don’t think his omission could have been the sole reason for the reversion to hoofball and instances of two or more players chasing after the same ball in Sunday football fashion which we witnessed tonight. The more cultured passing football which we were treated to for two or three games following the air clearing management meeting seemed to have been completely forgotten.
On the personnel front, I agree with @floyd about Thompson and Mehmeti but I am less convinced about Jordan Obita for JJ. Our left side has looked just as exposed when the pacier Obita has played and his dead ball skills have not been as good.
Thanks for that @peterparrotface. A pleasant diversion from the dispirited tone of most of this thread. And, as you’d probably expect, I have a lot of respect for Mr Rae. Quite a contrast with his namesake ! (First name of course.)
Now I can take the rough with the smooth with the best of 'em but I must admit I am also feeling that I might save a tenner on Saturday. Gruelling is starting to be the only description for matchday!
I'm genuinely shocked that a campaign which began with "we'll be trounced every week but I don't care, I'm gonna love every minute of it because WW are in the fckin' Championship!!!" has turned into "hmmm, not sure I'll bother watching on Saturday, same old sh1te...."
Maybe you Peter Pessimists "can't watch that every week" after all...
Shame on you, and just when your "heroes" need your support more than ever.
Have to agree @LeedsBlue . How many believed at the start of the season we could compete? Despite the Couhigs saying we are a Championship team, the reality is even with our recruitment , we are a top half League 1 team. How many of our players are Championship class. I would suggest very few. I have been critical sometimes of Ainsworth's selection and style and it has been a steep learning curve for him as well as the players. I think they deserve our support over the remaining games because how we finish could have a real impact on player retention, player recruitment and impetus going into next season, when hopefully we will be challenging at the top end of League 1 and getting back into the Championship.
Oxford Utd reckon they've lost around £2.3million due to Covid - and that seems to include a number of lucrative player sales - so while last night and much of the season has been disappointing, taking a longer term view, the huge amount of extra cash we've earned just from being in the Championship has likely saved the club and its future. Of course that's not new news but always worth reminding ourselves of it. Short article here: https://www.oufc.co.uk/news/2021/march/tiger-on-the-cost-of-covid/
Comments
Whereas my perception, both initially and on the replay, was that Scotty was doing exactly as described in that (helpful, thank you!) definition of impeding. He moved into the keeper's path with no meaningful intention to challenge for the ball, as evidenced by that fact that the keeper shoved him out of the way some time and space from the point where he cleared the ball.
I guess there's a spectrum with impeding at one end and positioning to challenge for the ball at the other. For my money, Scott was very much the wrong side of halfway on this one.
I was going to give my customary "why did we ship Nick Freeman out?" rant, but it's getting increasingly hard to feel motivated to speculate on the reasons for the Grand Canyon between us and the teams above.
Watford looked a solid side didn't they. Better than us tonight that is for sure. They had better players with a bit more pace and a bit more quality when it mattered. I wonder how they got those players and built that side? We are in the same league after all.
Having said all that if we were a bit more switched on when they broke and had a slightly better timed run from Wheeler we are well in that game.
I'm just wondering if Rob Couhig's no more little Wycombe mantra has left some with more to moan about as we try to compete in this league.
He wasn’t penalised either for obstruction nor offside / both indirect free kicks indicated by the referees raised arm. He was penalised for a foul - that I think was deemed bad enough to receive a yellow card for but as I said I’ve only seen it the once as I was on Sky bonus stream tonight as didn’t get round to buying ifollow as wasn’t sure I’d be around to watch until a few minutes after the match started.
Luckily, it's not one we can count as a hard luck story, that late in the game.
We certainly didn't lose tonight because of any bad decisions.
It probably feels foolish to be too down, as we've lost to two of the top 3 the last 2 games. These were the ones we always knew were "freebies" as such.
It's just that initial surge of excitement of a late run, with Uche and Tafa back has utterly disintegrated now.
Was it 9 wins from the last 13 games Phil said Ainsworth is targeting?
To me it’s pretty obvious that when a loose ball is in the air in the box then the striker is well within his rights to put himself in position where the ball is about to drop. The keeper then punches his in the head in order to get to the ball. A clear foul and a penalty.
It is a minor point really as we were nowhere near getting anything from that game. I don’t think we did that much wrong but Watford are clearly a much better side than us. They played reasonably well and were comfortable winners.
Adeniran's demise from the initial thoughts, of wow, this is a championship midfielder, after the with all due respect, hapless early turnouts of Pattison, Bloomfield etc, down to not even getting a few mins off the bench, has been a real disappointment.
You wonder why we bothered to bring Oforborh back too. Hardly been involved.
And goodness knows what Admiral must think.
It's like Gaz has realised he needs a strong squad, but slightly overdone the numbers in certain positions.
was I watching the same Kashket incident? The ref quite clearly signalled Kashket was offside, which seemed to be borne out by the replay. And Kasket wasn't booked. Indeed, I don't think anybody was in the match.
also, nice one @Right_in_the_Middle
Thanks for clarifying he wasn’t booked. Thought I saw the ref produce the card but as said I only saw it once without benefit of replay.
We made a decent fist of things. Were not given a sniff in front of goal. Horgan a passenger when it comes to creating anything (again his position might be the issue or he might not be up to it).
I don’t have a problem with our last 2 performances far superior opposition. It’s a shame we didn’t show the same quality v some of the lesser teams. We might of had a fighting chance going into the last dozen games.
Feel quite deflated after that one. Watford are a very good side, but I don't think we did ourselves justice at all. There was no way anything was going to come of us playing the way we did. Far too much hit and hope. No shots on target. Uche fighting a losing battle up front, too often no-one up to support him. Not really sure why Kashket has been so out of favour in the second half of the season, he had a couple of games where he missed some decent chances, but I'd still have backed him to return to form fairly quickly. As for Adeniran, I just don't know what's happened there. By far the best ball-playing midfielder in the early part of the season, to nothing. Is he still carrying an injury, I wonder?
Gareth's football philosophy seems to have unravelled at this level. Watching the opposition each week dominate possession must start to eat away at your confidence to carry out the ideas, you have been working on in training.
Tonight whilst still running and chasing, it looks like the players have lost belief in the route 1 tactic bearing any fruits.
Needlessly negative nancies
Here's something to cheer you up...have a look at manu's kit tonight against palace..
The reality of the situation is that we unfortunately do not have enough Championship quality players . We have put together a good League 1 squad and tried to compete. We have tried our best, both management and players but we have come up short on most levels. Hopefully we can keep most of the squad and have a go next season and get back in the Championship because the miracle is not going to happen.
Disappointing tonight, too much Wycombe long ball. Didn’t Watford press well up front and force Wycombe into the long ball?
...and then watford’s passing was so much better.
Also watford’s movement off the ball was cleverer...that’s a championship/prem level difference.
Their first goal...lots of our men move to the ball. Their man moves away into space, gets the cut through pass that takes Joe out of play and crosses for the goal.
Reminded me a bit of the Swansea game tonight in that the opposition were just so comfortable. I feel they could even have gone up a gear or two if they'd needed to.
Very disappointing, especially as we all know a few Watford fans and would all have been talking up our chances during the build up.
But you look at the two line ups and how much the players cost and how much they're paid and what should we really expect, regardless of what Rob Couhig says?
We can only assume Kashket is injured. Fucking weird how our best player isnt played
100% the ref gave offside for the kashket incident at the end.
You heard him?
I may give it a miss. You never know, they might somehow sneak a win but not with the oddly deployed, miscast midfield and shapeless disjointed performance we witnessed tonight. I was concerned before kickoff when I saw that Anis Mehmeti wasn’t starting. But I don’t think his omission could have been the sole reason for the reversion to hoofball and instances of two or more players chasing after the same ball in Sunday football fashion which we witnessed tonight. The more cultured passing football which we were treated to for two or three games following the air clearing management meeting seemed to have been completely forgotten.
On the personnel front, I agree with @floyd about Thompson and Mehmeti but I am less convinced about Jordan Obita for JJ. Our left side has looked just as exposed when the pacier Obita has played and his dead ball skills have not been as good.
Thanks for that @peterparrotface. A pleasant diversion from the dispirited tone of most of this thread. And, as you’d probably expect, I have a lot of respect for Mr Rae. Quite a contrast with his namesake ! (First name of course.)
Now I can take the rough with the smooth with the best of 'em but I must admit I am also feeling that I might save a tenner on Saturday. Gruelling is starting to be the only description for matchday!
I'm genuinely shocked that a campaign which began with "we'll be trounced every week but I don't care, I'm gonna love every minute of it because WW are in the fckin' Championship!!!" has turned into "hmmm, not sure I'll bother watching on Saturday, same old sh1te...."
Maybe you Peter Pessimists "can't watch that every week" after all...
Shame on you, and just when your "heroes" need your support more than ever.
Have to agree @LeedsBlue . How many believed at the start of the season we could compete? Despite the Couhigs saying we are a Championship team, the reality is even with our recruitment , we are a top half League 1 team. How many of our players are Championship class. I would suggest very few. I have been critical sometimes of Ainsworth's selection and style and it has been a steep learning curve for him as well as the players. I think they deserve our support over the remaining games because how we finish could have a real impact on player retention, player recruitment and impetus going into next season, when hopefully we will be challenging at the top end of League 1 and getting back into the Championship.
Oxford Utd reckon they've lost around £2.3million due to Covid - and that seems to include a number of lucrative player sales - so while last night and much of the season has been disappointing, taking a longer term view, the huge amount of extra cash we've earned just from being in the Championship has likely saved the club and its future. Of course that's not new news but always worth reminding ourselves of it. Short article here: https://www.oufc.co.uk/news/2021/march/tiger-on-the-cost-of-covid/
Nice of us to throw them a bone with the Obita purchase.
POTD @davecz.