@Wendoverman said:
I am quite disappointed with Horgan on the whole...
Massively. Mehmeti has out performed him with 1% of the fanfare.
Horgan has lacked consistency. McCleary has gone off the boil after what was a positive start and like @drcongo I don’t get Gape at this level. Mehmeti now, there is a player to build around. He has to play as much as possible to keep the ball on the floor.
@micra said:
Hard to stay optimistic (or even very interested) after that. Glad it was free.
Exactly this oldest son, we're attuned in views as fairly often.
With the road to lockdown being laid out, and "proper" footy season back next August, I'm just ticking down these games now, and looking forward to the summer.
I’ve stopped shouting for penalties because we’ve been denied so many this season. I just sat blank faced as the keeper punched Scotty in the face and the ref gave a free kick against us for Scotty facing someone in the fist.
@HCblue said:
Going to carry on being a bit grumpy. For “Kashket looking lovely” I say “Kashket looking to buy fouls ahead of actually trying to win the ball and failing to get in crosses when in potentially promising positions.”
When the keeper ran out and knocked him in the head, I thought that looked on the lines of a pen.
But as noone else mentioned anything about it, maybe it was just me.
Or maybe everyone had gotten weary over such a non game by then.
Am at the point now where I'm not finding these games much fun, and it's more a duty to be honest.
Combo of an offside shout and being jaded by 2 hours of us barely touching them. Looked like a pen to me but can't be arsed to check.
Not doubting the players general efforts but not sure how much good another pep talk can do. We look like we might be able to compete with one or two teams down the bottom but aren't setting up to either trouble better teams or take advantage of their off days.
I wouldn’t disagree, @malone, but I’d never give him the pen because he obviously put himself in the keeper’s way to bring about contact as keeper legitimately went to the ball, with the intention of falling and writhing when that contact happened. He had no intent to challenge for the ball at all. I’ve no time for that kind of gamesmanship. You’ll wait a long time to hear me describe that sort of thing as “clever”.
I’ve stopped shouting for penalties because we’ve been denied so many this season. I just sat blank faced as the keeper punched Scotty in the face and the ref gave a free kick against us for Scotty facing someone in the fist.
Same as last game. These decisions are getting ridiculous
@Wendoverman said:
I am quite disappointed with Horgan on the whole...
Massively. Mehmeti has out performed him with 1% of the fanfare.
Horgan has lacked consistency. McCleary has gone off the boil after what was a positive start and like @drcongo I don’t get Gape at this level. Mehmeti now, there is a player to build around. He has to play as much as possible to keep the ball on the floor.
I think we've had quite a few spells of certain players having a hot short run of form.
Kashket, Thompson, Adeniran, McCleary.
The only ones who I think have shown the same level for a long spell are probably Knight and arguably Wheeler, albeit the latter in his more understated way.
I’ve stopped shouting for penalties because we’ve been denied so many this season. I just sat blank faced as the keeper punched Scotty in the face and the ref gave a free kick against us for Scotty facing someone in the fist.
We've had a lot of these keeper scenarios this season haven't we?
The one today, Krul last game, Foster in the reverse Watford game, the Millwall game/JJ direct from the corner.
And those are just 4 from very quick memory.
@HCblue said:
I wouldn’t disagree, @malone, but I’d never give him the pen because he obviously put himself in the keeper’s way to bring about contact as keeper legitimately went to the ball, with the intention of falling and writhing when that contact happened. He had no intent to challenge for the ball at all. I’ve no time for that kind of gamesmanship. You’ll wait a long time to hear me describe that sort of thing as “clever”.
I didn't even think he was trying to buy contact, like a lot of players do.
I thought he was just standing there, and not even trying to back in like Samuel did to Foster in the reverse game.
But you surely can't come out, lash someone in the head, knocking them over, get nowhere near the ball, and get off scott free?
So disappointing. Think we gave Watford and Norwich too much respect with our mentality screaming out: ‘we are never expecting anything here so it dosent matter if we get beat’. That just isn’t good enough. Seems every week we set up to try to get to half time and then nick one in the second half but how many times have we taken the lead in games. I think Horgan and Mehmeti have to start. I agree with posters saying Horgan end product has been disappointing but he clearly alongside Mehmeti is a technician with an ability with the ball at his feet. Just a shame that too often the ball is in the air so these players are starved of their technical ability
It was a pretty clear hands to face, but i've given up hoping we'll be awarded even the most clear cut penalty at this point.
It was hard work watching that tonight. Watford are very good, but i think GA got the team wrong. I'd have had Obita for JJ, Mehmeti for Horgan (always) and Thompson for Gape. I feel bad for Dom, but his season has never gotten going.
Maybe it's the defeat, the inevitability of our relegation, or perhaps the surreal and dispiriting games behind closed doors are finally getting to me, but it's very hard to get excited about our last dozen games.
@HCblue said:
I wouldn’t disagree, @malone, but I’d never give him the pen because he obviously put himself in the keeper’s way to bring about contact as keeper legitimately went to the ball, with the intention of falling and writhing when that contact happened. He had no intent to challenge for the ball at all. I’ve no time for that kind of gamesmanship. You’ll wait a long time to hear me describe that sort of thing as “clever”.
I didn't even think he was trying to buy contact, like a lot of players do.
I thought he was just standing there, and not even trying to back in like Samuel did to Foster in the reverse game.
But you surely can't come out, lash someone in the head, knocking them over, get nowhere near the ball, and get off scott free?
I'd have to see it again though.
I take your point about the contact but I’m effectively saying that I’d penalise Kashket for obstruction before that. My initial perception, tending to be confirmed by the replay, was that he put himself where he did to bring about contact from which he could fall over rather than to compete for the ball.
Another disappointing performance. The football is awful to watch. Continue playing pass and hoof and we could face a relagation battle next season in league 1. We have the players to play to feet, take people on and play some decent football.
It's interesting how far down Muskwe is in the pecking order (above or below Samuel though?) and Adeniran looks like he's now just B-team filler. I add my voice to those wondering why Gape is played ahead of Thompson and Ofoborh, and while I still don't get Mehmeti as an individual, I do get the importance of playing with an attacking midfield playmaker, which Horgan is not.
We're playing a team at the top of the table, losing is not shameful. But this goes to the heart of Rob Couhig's note - we need to play with our heart on our sleeves, aiming for glorious football even if we lose in the process. Playing boring, defensive hoofball is going to be ineffective, even if we're hitting it up to Ikpeazu rather than Bayo.
@Wetherby_blue said:
Another disappointing performance. The football is awful to watch. Continue playing pass and hoof and we could face a relagation battle next season in league 1. We have the players to play to feet, take people on and play some decent football.
Yep. I fear for us next season. We may have a great squad for L1 but the tactics are too negative (sometimes). I’ll print screen this and eat my words if this time next season we are sitting pretty at the top of L1 - or still in the Championship - playing hoof ball
@Wetherby_blue said:
Another disappointing performance. The football is awful to watch. Continue playing pass and hoof and we could face a relagation battle next season in league 1. We have the players to play to feet, take people on and play some decent football.
Yep. I fear for us next season. We may have a great squad for L1 but the tactics are too negative (sometimes). I’ll print screen this and eat my words if this time next season we are sitting pretty at the top of L1 - or still in the Championship - playing hoof ball
I take your point about the contact but I’m effectively saying that I’d penalise Kashket for obstruction before that. My initial perception, tending to be confirmed by the replay, was that he put himself where he did to bring about contact from which he could fall over rather than to compete for the ball.
>
“IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.”
I don’t think Scotty was moving into the keepers path, but rather taking up his position for the ball to come to him/them both. So not obstruction in my view from a single viewing
Since I seem to be in a somewhat venting mood tonight, I'll agree with @gary and add that I've long thought that there are times when Gareth's approach away from home seems needlessly negative.
Comments
Hard to stay optimistic (or even very interested) after that. Glad it was free.
Otherwise it was a penalty.
Good point. If it was offside, fair enough.
Otherwise I thought it was another for the folder of dodgy decisions.
Horgan has lacked consistency. McCleary has gone off the boil after what was a positive start and like @drcongo I don’t get Gape at this level. Mehmeti now, there is a player to build around. He has to play as much as possible to keep the ball on the floor.
Think Kashket was booked, so not an offside. Free kick awarded against him for a foul!! No arm raised by ref to indicate indirect for offside.
Exactly this oldest son, we're attuned in views as fairly often.
With the road to lockdown being laid out, and "proper" footy season back next August, I'm just ticking down these games now, and looking forward to the summer.
I’ve stopped shouting for penalties because we’ve been denied so many this season. I just sat blank faced as the keeper punched Scotty in the face and the ref gave a free kick against us for Scotty facing someone in the fist.
Combo of an offside shout and being jaded by 2 hours of us barely touching them. Looked like a pen to me but can't be arsed to check.
Not doubting the players general efforts but not sure how much good another pep talk can do. We look like we might be able to compete with one or two teams down the bottom but aren't setting up to either trouble better teams or take advantage of their off days.
I wouldn’t disagree, @malone, but I’d never give him the pen because he obviously put himself in the keeper’s way to bring about contact as keeper legitimately went to the ball, with the intention of falling and writhing when that contact happened. He had no intent to challenge for the ball at all. I’ve no time for that kind of gamesmanship. You’ll wait a long time to hear me describe that sort of thing as “clever”.
Kashket has a habit of arching his back when the ball is in the air, which is maybe why he doesn’t get as many decisions as he should.
There has been plenty of games this season that we’ve lost but were enjoyable to watch, yet tonight just felt like a chore to watch.
Same as last game. These decisions are getting ridiculous
Very disappointed, a weakened Watford side were there for the beating if we were more positive.
I think we've had quite a few spells of certain players having a hot short run of form.
Kashket, Thompson, Adeniran, McCleary.
The only ones who I think have shown the same level for a long spell are probably Knight and arguably Wheeler, albeit the latter in his more understated way.
We've had a lot of these keeper scenarios this season haven't we?
The one today, Krul last game, Foster in the reverse Watford game, the Millwall game/JJ direct from the corner.
And those are just 4 from very quick memory.
I think the expression is ‘we never laid a glove on them.’ ?
Well put.
I didn't even think he was trying to buy contact, like a lot of players do.
I thought he was just standing there, and not even trying to back in like Samuel did to Foster in the reverse game.
But you surely can't come out, lash someone in the head, knocking them over, get nowhere near the ball, and get off scott free?
I'd have to see it again though.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RankSquad/status/1367110533195960322
So disappointing. Think we gave Watford and Norwich too much respect with our mentality screaming out: ‘we are never expecting anything here so it dosent matter if we get beat’. That just isn’t good enough. Seems every week we set up to try to get to half time and then nick one in the second half but how many times have we taken the lead in games. I think Horgan and Mehmeti have to start. I agree with posters saying Horgan end product has been disappointing but he clearly alongside Mehmeti is a technician with an ability with the ball at his feet. Just a shame that too often the ball is in the air so these players are starved of their technical ability
It was a pretty clear hands to face, but i've given up hoping we'll be awarded even the most clear cut penalty at this point.
It was hard work watching that tonight. Watford are very good, but i think GA got the team wrong. I'd have had Obita for JJ, Mehmeti for Horgan (always) and Thompson for Gape. I feel bad for Dom, but his season has never gotten going.
Maybe it's the defeat, the inevitability of our relegation, or perhaps the surreal and dispiriting games behind closed doors are finally getting to me, but it's very hard to get excited about our last dozen games.
I take your point about the contact but I’m effectively saying that I’d penalise Kashket for obstruction before that. My initial perception, tending to be confirmed by the replay, was that he put himself where he did to bring about contact from which he could fall over rather than to compete for the ball.
Another disappointing performance. The football is awful to watch. Continue playing pass and hoof and we could face a relagation battle next season in league 1. We have the players to play to feet, take people on and play some decent football.
I mean, so does every other team in the Championship and they do it better.
Is Rob Couhig still certain we will be in the Championship next season?
It's interesting how far down Muskwe is in the pecking order (above or below Samuel though?) and Adeniran looks like he's now just B-team filler. I add my voice to those wondering why Gape is played ahead of Thompson and Ofoborh, and while I still don't get Mehmeti as an individual, I do get the importance of playing with an attacking midfield playmaker, which Horgan is not.
We're playing a team at the top of the table, losing is not shameful. But this goes to the heart of Rob Couhig's note - we need to play with our heart on our sleeves, aiming for glorious football even if we lose in the process. Playing boring, defensive hoofball is going to be ineffective, even if we're hitting it up to Ikpeazu rather than Bayo.
Yep. I fear for us next season. We may have a great squad for L1 but the tactics are too negative (sometimes). I’ll print screen this and eat my words if this time next season we are sitting pretty at the top of L1 - or still in the Championship - playing hoof ball
So not bothering on Saturday?
Same here,
>
“IMPEDING THE PROGRESS OF AN OPPONENT WITHOUT CONTACT
Impeding the progress of an opponent means moving into the opponent’s path to obstruct, block, slow down or force a change of direction when the ball is not within playing distance of either player.
All players have a right to their position on the field of play; being in the way of an opponent is not the same as moving into the way of an opponent.”
I don’t think Scotty was moving into the keepers path, but rather taking up his position for the ball to come to him/them both. So not obstruction in my view from a single viewing
Since I seem to be in a somewhat venting mood tonight, I'll agree with @gary and add that I've long thought that there are times when Gareth's approach away from home seems needlessly negative.