I might save myself £10 every week by just watching the Barnsley game while you suckers pay £10 to watch the same thing with different kit colours. Pretty sure I’ll be able to join in the conversation on here and nobody will even realise.
Tentatively, I wonder whether we need to speak about the role Gareth Ainsworth is playing in this. Let me precede this by saying that, yes, he's one of the two greatest managers in the history of the club, deserves enormous credit for getting us up, has a job for life and has proven many of us wrong time and again.
But.
The tactics we're playing are going to get us relegated. The insistence on 433 with all balls to Bayo means we lack width, fail to utilise our most creative players effectively, fail to control the midfield, fail to offer support to our full-backs, fail to prevent counter attacks which slice us open with one ball into the channels, and just lead to our attacks either petering out or being too easily neutralised. And when it goes wrong, too often little is changed until too late, particularly with substitutions.
I'm sure Gareth knows this, I hope he's got a plan to deal with it. But I can't help thinking back to when Richard Dobson was on the touchline when the side looked more balanced, creative and confident - and we picked up our only two wins of the season. I'm also reminded of something Gareth said in one of his pre-season interviews, which always struck me as particularly honest - telling the Times that his strengths lie in motivating players rather than being the most tactically astute manager.
This January is going to be HUGE. We need to sign some key players and rethink how we approach the second half of the season. We know he'll be given a certain amount of money to bring in new blood but probably nowhere near what other clubs trying to buy their way out of relegation will be spending. This is where Gareth excels.
I wonder whether there would be any benefit to Gareth concentrating on that side of things for the next few weeks, get the recruitment absolutely spot on, and let Dobbo take charge of preparing for matchday and patrolling the touchline (with Matt Bloomfield) when we're playing. Then when February comes Gareth can come back in, with hopefully a few new players, a new style and a few more points on the board.
@chairboyscentral said:
Maybe we do it to the extreme, but it can be effective
I’m yet to see any evidence of this. Again, I don’t care what the stats say because the way those stats are compiled is about as objective as VAR. I care what happens on the pitch, and employing that tactic 40 times a game for 20 odd games without it being effective once suggests we should really try something else.
We struggle to make space in crowded goal areas created by our own tactics and opposing teams adapting to our tactics. As shown in the last two games when we have run at the defenders we have scored, It’s not working so we have to change to stand any chance of staying up.
@chairboyscentral said:
Maybe we do it to the extreme, but it can be effective
I’m yet to see any evidence of this. Again, I don’t care what the stats say because the way those stats are compiled is about as objective as VAR. I care what happens on the pitch, and employing that tactic 40 times a game for 20 odd games without it being effective once suggests we should really try something else.
I'm not going purely on the stats. Bayo was extremely effective against Watford (when he also missed a sitter, admittedly), Birmingham and Preston - and had a big impact off the bench against Forest and Derby. It doesn't have to directly lead to a goal every time to be effective.
Sorry Father Time has unfortunately caught up with Bayo. Absolutely not a criticism but a fact of life. Why cannot we change our tactics? I know we having been doing it for years but Bayo was ‘ younger’ and defenders less competent. We need to find another way. Almost getting to the point where we need to win 50% of our remaining games to stay up.Even the most optimistic surely can’t see that happening.
We all try and be positive but some people seem to ignore any sort of evidence.
I swear some will be saying there's "still 8 games left and if we win them all and no-one else gets a point we can stay up" type comments in April.
We obviously won't win 8 games in a row, but while the gap is still as small as it is, it really doesn't take much of an improvement in results to close it.
I understand it looks dire but at some point we will a game, hopefully sooner rather than later and it's important to turn that win into a little run and build some momentum.
Look back at our previous few relegation threatened seasons. 2 wins in a week has a huge effect on your standing in the table. Before our 2 consecutive wins (and 3 in 4 games) in Feb 2014 we had 1 win in 18. That's an even worse run than our current 0 wins in 11.
Positivity isn't for everyone, but there's no need to portray it as some kind of impossible situation. You only have to look at Southend this season to see how quickly things can change. They were in a much worse position than we are only 2 weeks ago. A couple of wins and it all changes pretty quickly.
This isn’t a criticism of Bayo, it’s a criticism of having only one tactic. Funny that you picked out the Birmingham and Preston games, the two where I felt we weren’t relying solely on the smash it at Bayo method. Preston showed just how good we are when not smashing it at Bayo, we were brilliant that day.
@drcongo said:
This isn’t a criticism of Bayo, it’s a criticism of having only one tactic. Funny that you picked out the Birmingham and Preston games, the two where I felt we weren’t relying solely on the smash it at Bayo method. Preston showed just how good we are when not smashing it at Bayo, we were brilliant that day.
We targeted Bayo one more time v Preston than today, and against Birmingham his aerial numbers were ridiculous - higher than any game last season - so we must have targeted him loads. He was key to the winner v Birmingham and didn't he win the free-kick for Kashket's goal v Preston? He generally has an impact of one kind or another.
@drcongo said:
This isn’t a criticism of Bayo, it’s a criticism of having only one tactic. Funny that you picked out the Birmingham and Preston games, the two where I felt we weren’t relying solely on the smash it at Bayo method. Preston showed just how good we are when not smashing it at Bayo, we were brilliant that day.
We targeted Bayo one more time v Preston than today, and against Birmingham his aerial numbers were ridiculous - higher than any game last season - so we must have targeted him loads. He was key to the winner v Birmingham and didn't he win the free-kick for Kashket's goal v Preston? He generally has an impact of one kind or another.
We all try and be positive but some people seem to ignore any sort of evidence.
I swear some will be saying there's "still 8 games left and if we win them all and no-one else gets a point we can stay up" type comments in April.
We obviously won't win 8 games in a row, but while the gap is still as small as it is, it really doesn't take much of an improvement in results to close it.
I understand it looks dire but at some point we will a game, hopefully sooner rather than later and it's important to turn that win into a little run and build some momentum.
Look back at our previous few relegation threatened seasons. 2 wins in a week has a huge effect on your standing in the table. Before our 2 consecutive wins (and 3 in 4 games) in Feb 2014 we had 1 win in 18. That's an even worse run than our current 0 wins in 11.
Positivity isn't for everyone, but there's no need to portray it as some kind of impossible situation. You only have to look at Southend this season to see how quickly things can change. They were in a much worse position than we are only 2 weeks ago. A couple of wins and it all changes pretty quickly.
12 without a win then three wins from five in 18/19
@drcongo said:
This isn’t a criticism of Bayo, it’s a criticism of having only one tactic. Funny that you picked out the Birmingham and Preston games, the two where I felt we weren’t relying solely on the smash it at Bayo method. Preston showed just how good we are when not smashing it at Bayo, we were brilliant that day.
We targeted Bayo one more time v Preston than today, and against Birmingham his aerial numbers were ridiculous - higher than any game last season - so we must have targeted him loads. He was key to the winner v Birmingham and didn't he win the free-kick for Kashket's goal v Preston? He generally has an impact of one kind or another.
I’m not saying Bayo = bad.
Nah, I get what you're saying - but that approach is predicated around Bayo, and it has worked. But as I've said, I do agree we overpersevere (is that a word?) with it when it's not working.
Clearly GA sees in training what we don’t see on match days. Why else would Uche not get any game time? Why else would Freeman not be in the squad? Why else would Parker still be at the club? With the same outcome with the same players game after game clearly he feels these three wouldn’t change things.
I hope on Tuesday we have a major shake up.
On a positive note whilst Darius was never in contention for man of the match I love the guy so much I just want him to get as much as he can from the Championship adventure. He played well, made a great goal line clearance and made the ref give a free kick when two City players fouled each other in what was yet another example of shit officials
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Clearly GA sees in training what we don’t see on match days. Why else would Uche not get any game time? Why else would Freeman not be in the squad? Why else would Parker still be at the club? With the same outcome with the same players game after game clearly he feels these three wouldn’t change things.
I hope on Tuesday we have a major shake up.
On a positive note whilst Darius was never in contention for man of the match I love the guy so much I just want him to get as much as he can from the Championship adventure. He played well, made a great goal line clearance and made the ref give a free kick when two City players fouled each other in what was yet another example of shit officials
The last bit is very true.
Would have been horrible if the Blackburn game was his last taster of action this season.
Where's this assumption that Freeman was just dropped come from? Not saying he wasn't, but also it's not like we'd have been told if he was injured/ill.
@chairboyscentral said:
Where's this assumption that Freeman was just dropped come from? Not saying he wasn't, but also it's not like we'd have been told if he was injured/ill.
@chairboyscentral said:
Where's this assumption that Freeman was just dropped come from? Not saying he wasn't, but also it's not like we'd have been told if he was injured/ill.
I have it on good authority that he’s fine.
Interesting. Wouldn't have expected him to start but surprising he wasn't on the bench if that's the case (although who would he have replaced?).
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub They did say on the commentary that Freeman was injured, though I noted that Gaz didn't then mention that in his post-match interview, when asked about injuries. On the Darius incident, if I'm thinking about the same one, I thought the free-kick was given against Kashket for being offside.
@Malone Darius played in the Luton game, but had a pretty torrid time.
@our_frank said: @TheAndyGrahamFanClub They did say on the commentary that Freeman was injured, though I noted that Gaz didn't then mention that in his post-match interview, when asked about injuries. On the Darius incident, if I'm thinking about the same one, I thought the free-kick was given against Kashket for being offside.
@Malone Darius played in the Luton game, but had a pretty torrid time.
Fair correction.
Was going to go with "one of his last games" but went in too definitely
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub said:
Clearly GA sees in training what we don’t see on match days.
Why else would Uche not get any game time? Why else would Freeman not be in the squad? Why else would Parker still be at the club?
Not fit
Injured (or ill)
No better than lots of other similar players (no worse though based on today)
Uche not fit? Not fit for 1 minute of football? How’s he gonna get match fit when he cannot replace a one-legged 38 year old for even injury time today?
Freeman has proved several times he’s better than some of the options we had today and seems to be the easy player to be dropped. If he was unfit today that’s an exception.
Parker has to be an option. He’s strong and technically good and yet can’t get near. Never said he’s the season changer but after umpteen games of lumping it to Bayo I would take anything.
Comments
I might save myself £10 every week by just watching the Barnsley game while you suckers pay £10 to watch the same thing with different kit colours. Pretty sure I’ll be able to join in the conversation on here and nobody will even realise.
Tentatively, I wonder whether we need to speak about the role Gareth Ainsworth is playing in this. Let me precede this by saying that, yes, he's one of the two greatest managers in the history of the club, deserves enormous credit for getting us up, has a job for life and has proven many of us wrong time and again.
But.
The tactics we're playing are going to get us relegated. The insistence on 433 with all balls to Bayo means we lack width, fail to utilise our most creative players effectively, fail to control the midfield, fail to offer support to our full-backs, fail to prevent counter attacks which slice us open with one ball into the channels, and just lead to our attacks either petering out or being too easily neutralised. And when it goes wrong, too often little is changed until too late, particularly with substitutions.
I'm sure Gareth knows this, I hope he's got a plan to deal with it. But I can't help thinking back to when Richard Dobson was on the touchline when the side looked more balanced, creative and confident - and we picked up our only two wins of the season. I'm also reminded of something Gareth said in one of his pre-season interviews, which always struck me as particularly honest - telling the Times that his strengths lie in motivating players rather than being the most tactically astute manager.
This January is going to be HUGE. We need to sign some key players and rethink how we approach the second half of the season. We know he'll be given a certain amount of money to bring in new blood but probably nowhere near what other clubs trying to buy their way out of relegation will be spending. This is where Gareth excels.
I wonder whether there would be any benefit to Gareth concentrating on that side of things for the next few weeks, get the recruitment absolutely spot on, and let Dobbo take charge of preparing for matchday and patrolling the touchline (with Matt Bloomfield) when we're playing. Then when February comes Gareth can come back in, with hopefully a few new players, a new style and a few more points on the board.
Yes, we'll drop the manager.
I’m yet to see any evidence of this. Again, I don’t care what the stats say because the way those stats are compiled is about as objective as VAR. I care what happens on the pitch, and employing that tactic 40 times a game for 20 odd games without it being effective once suggests we should really try something else.
We struggle to make space in crowded goal areas created by our own tactics and opposing teams adapting to our tactics. As shown in the last two games when we have run at the defenders we have scored, It’s not working so we have to change to stand any chance of staying up.
I'm not going purely on the stats. Bayo was extremely effective against Watford (when he also missed a sitter, admittedly), Birmingham and Preston - and had a big impact off the bench against Forest and Derby. It doesn't have to directly lead to a goal every time to be effective.
Sorry Father Time has unfortunately caught up with Bayo. Absolutely not a criticism but a fact of life. Why cannot we change our tactics? I know we having been doing it for years but Bayo was ‘ younger’ and defenders less competent. We need to find another way. Almost getting to the point where we need to win 50% of our remaining games to stay up.Even the most optimistic surely can’t see that happening.
I've seen a couple of people say this "Dobbo got the wins" routine.
Do they really think Dobbo just did what he fancied those days, rather than working to what the plan usually is with Gareth?
We obviously won't win 8 games in a row, but while the gap is still as small as it is, it really doesn't take much of an improvement in results to close it.
I understand it looks dire but at some point we will a game, hopefully sooner rather than later and it's important to turn that win into a little run and build some momentum.
Look back at our previous few relegation threatened seasons. 2 wins in a week has a huge effect on your standing in the table. Before our 2 consecutive wins (and 3 in 4 games) in Feb 2014 we had 1 win in 18. That's an even worse run than our current 0 wins in 11.
Positivity isn't for everyone, but there's no need to portray it as some kind of impossible situation. You only have to look at Southend this season to see how quickly things can change. They were in a much worse position than we are only 2 weeks ago. A couple of wins and it all changes pretty quickly.
This isn’t a criticism of Bayo, it’s a criticism of having only one tactic. Funny that you picked out the Birmingham and Preston games, the two where I felt we weren’t relying solely on the smash it at Bayo method. Preston showed just how good we are when not smashing it at Bayo, we were brilliant that day.
I assumed they were being tongue-in-cheek.
We targeted Bayo one more time v Preston than today, and against Birmingham his aerial numbers were ridiculous - higher than any game last season - so we must have targeted him loads. He was key to the winner v Birmingham and didn't he win the free-kick for Kashket's goal v Preston? He generally has an impact of one kind or another.
I think against Preston we were just a lot better in the spells when we got the ball on the ground than we were today.
I’m not saying Bayo = bad.
12 without a win then three wins from five in 18/19
Nah, I get what you're saying - but that approach is predicated around Bayo, and it has worked. But as I've said, I do agree we overpersevere (is that a word?) with it when it's not working.
Clearly GA sees in training what we don’t see on match days. Why else would Uche not get any game time? Why else would Freeman not be in the squad? Why else would Parker still be at the club? With the same outcome with the same players game after game clearly he feels these three wouldn’t change things.
I hope on Tuesday we have a major shake up.
On a positive note whilst Darius was never in contention for man of the match I love the guy so much I just want him to get as much as he can from the Championship adventure. He played well, made a great goal line clearance and made the ref give a free kick when two City players fouled each other in what was yet another example of shit officials
You know things are bad when even @TheAndyGrahamFanClub is angry.
The last bit is very true.
Would have been horrible if the Blackburn game was his last taster of action this season.
Where's this assumption that Freeman was just dropped come from? Not saying he wasn't, but also it's not like we'd have been told if he was injured/ill.
I have it on good authority that he’s fine.
Why else would Uche not get any game time? Why else would Freeman not be in the squad? Why else would Parker still be at the club?
Not fit
Injured (or ill)
No better than lots of other similar players (no worse though based on today)
Interesting. Wouldn't have expected him to start but surprising he wasn't on the bench if that's the case (although who would he have replaced?).
@TheAndyGrahamFanClub They did say on the commentary that Freeman was injured, though I noted that Gaz didn't then mention that in his post-match interview, when asked about injuries. On the Darius incident, if I'm thinking about the same one, I thought the free-kick was given against Kashket for being offside.
@Malone Darius played in the Luton game, but had a pretty torrid time.
Fair correction.
Was going to go with "one of his last games" but went in too definitely
Uche not fit? Not fit for 1 minute of football? How’s he gonna get match fit when he cannot replace a one-legged 38 year old for even injury time today?
Freeman has proved several times he’s better than some of the options we had today and seems to be the easy player to be dropped. If he was unfit today that’s an exception.
Parker has to be an option. He’s strong and technically good and yet can’t get near. Never said he’s the season changer but after umpteen games of lumping it to Bayo I would take anything.
Parker's got to be out the door next month so we can bring in
Why not play him now though? He’s scored as many goals as Bayo this season.
Cause he doesn't improve the team. And Uche is the Bayo alternative obviously.
He wasn’t today.