You are entitled to believe what you want to believe, you can carry on doubting the truthfulness of the manager and his assistant, two of the most honest and honourable men I’ve met in football, but I know what I think.
@aloysius said:
I'm afraid I just don't buy that Gareth was involved for those matches. The man had just had back surgery, for goodness sake. He's not superhuman. He was lying prostrate high on tranquillisers. I'm sure he was consulted by Dobbo but I'm also sure he said something along the lines of, 'Dobbo, I trust you, you take the reins for the moment'.
It's not like those two victories were flukes either. We played a different style, a proper 442, something we've only seen glimpses of since.
Sorry, but you are wrong. I can assure you that Gareth was very much involved in team selection and tactics for the two games in question. I point this out without wishing to demean the role that Dobbo played in those wins, but this is fact, not speculation.
Goodness, you were in the hospital room alongside Gareth and Dobbo, were you, as the discussions took place? Alan, I enjoyed your commentary today, you're good at it. But you must know by now that just because you're told something - even if it's by Gareth and Dobbo themselves - it doesn't make it fact. Any more than being told Nick Freeman is out injured means that it is so.
Aye, and saying something in 300 words doesn’t make it more any more true than saying it in 5.
@chairboyscentral said:
Pete C literally said we're prepared to yo-yo (someone posted it on here, but I can't find it when I search for it). Rotherham are a better example than Barnsley as they're closer to us in terms of size/budget/whatever - and they've stood by their manager and stuck rigidly to a sustainable financial plan. Regardless of what happens this season, I don't think it will be our only one in the Championship.
I think I’ve posted this here before, but this is from Close Quarters:
“ One of those might be promotion to the Championship. Was Wycombe ready for that? ‘Fuck yes, we’re ready.’ How? ‘Because we’re prepared to yo-yo.’ The idea was that should Wycombe spend one season a level up they would budget for an immediate return to League One. ‘But nothing is impossible. The goal would be to try to achieve survival with the lowest budget in the goddamned history of the Championship.’”
@aloysius said:
I'm afraid I just don't buy that Gareth was involved for those matches. The man had just had back surgery, for goodness sake. He's not superhuman. He was lying prostrate high on tranquillisers. I'm sure he was consulted by Dobbo but I'm also sure he said something along the lines of, 'Dobbo, I trust you, you take the reins for the moment'.
It's not like those two victories were flukes either. We played a different style, a proper 442, something we've only seen glimpses of since.
Sorry, but you are wrong. I can assure you that Gareth was very much involved in team selection and tactics for the two games in question. I point this out without wishing to demean the role that Dobbo played in those wins, but this is fact, not speculation.
Goodness, you were in the hospital room alongside Gareth and Dobbo, were you, as the discussions took place? Alan, I enjoyed your commentary today, you're good at it. But you must know by now that just because you're told something - even if it's by Gareth and Dobbo themselves - it doesn't make it fact. Any more than being told Nick Freeman is out injured means that it is so.
@aloysius I am surprised you are questioning @glasshalffull . He knows everything that goes on at the club!! . That is why he has appointed himself in the role of defender of all negative views or comments about the club. Hence most of his posts berating posters who express any sort of negative view about the club, players or management.
@glasshalffull said:
two of the most honest and honourable men I’ve met in football, but I know what I think.
Hmmm....and where did Steve Hayes rate as 'honest men in football' when you were supporting his move to sell Adams Park to build a stadium for a London rugby club? Not sure your judgement really counts for much.
davecz, you fail to understand the purpose of this forum. The gasroom is meant to encourage differing views and therefore posters are allowed to question people with whom they disagree, hopefully without resorting to immature attempts at sarcasm.
@glasshalffull said:
two of the most honest and honourable men I’ve met in football, but I know what I think.
Hmmm....and where did Steve Hayes rate as 'honest men in football' when you were supporting his move to sell Adams Park to build a stadium for a London rugby club? Not sure your judgement really counts for much.
I did support the building of a new stadium in the hope that one day we might get into the Championship and need a ground with bigger capacity, better access and superior facilities than we had at Adams Park. Some people thought that Wycombe getting to the Championship was an impossible dream, subsequent events suggest that maybe their judgement was lacking.
Sorry Eric, but I remember a meeting at the ground where there was a strong body of opinion that we didn’t need a new stadium because ‘we’ll have 5,000 people rattling around in a big stadium watching lower division football.’ Surely you remember people saying that?
Returning to the original point made by Aloysius, I was interested to hear Fulham assistant manager Stuart Gray say on MOTD that although Scott Parker was absent from their game against Southampton due to being tested positive for COVID, he ‘spoke to the players before the game and at half time and he was on the phone to us as well.’ A manager can have a big input even when he’s not physically present at the game.
While optimism is a great thing, and I would not put it past this club to get back to the second tier at some point, I am a little concerned that the owners are "prepared to be a yo-yo club". I am hoping the magnitude of what was achieved last season is in perspective, and that it is not as simple as opening another can of miracle juice.
Rotherham have yo-yoed, but that includes a playoff win and a PPG promotion, which though valid, hints that it would have only taken things to go slightly differently for them to fail to get back up.
With the salary cap, I am hopeful we can at the very least be a stable L1 club, but I am a little concerned that talk of being prepared to yo-yo is like me finding a suitcase of money, and stating "I am prepared to find a suitcase of money every other year". Lovely if it happens, but it is no failure if we end up in L1 without getting back up for many years (or ever).
Rather that than 'Let's chuck everything at staying in the Championship' and risk crippling ourselves financially and doing a Yeovil (they lost 6-1 to Torquay today, madness). Yo-yoing is easier said than done, but aren't most things this club does?! Totally agree that being a stable League One club would be no failure though.
@chairboyscentral agreed on not going crazy with spending! I think sustainability should be paramount. I just don't want one miracle season to raise expectations so much that anyone is disappointed in GA and the boys if we are 12th in L1 next season.
I agree with the view that it’s dangerous to assume we could quickly bounce back if we do get relegated. Football just doesn’t work like that, I’m afraid. However, I remain hopeful that we can still survive with players returning from injury and the prospect of the squad being strengthened by a modest outlay in January.
@Shev said: @chairboyscentral agreed on not going crazy with spending! I think sustainability should be paramount. I just don't want one miracle season to raise expectations so much that anyone is disappointed in GA and the boys if we are 12th in L1 next season.
I think it's already done that unfortunately. People didn't like that we were still 'acting like a small club' when we were losing all those games around the turn of the year last season. I get the frustration at this current run - I feel it too - but there hasn't half been some delusion going around recently.
To be fair, sustainability is the preferred option of the vast majority of posters on this forum. I doubt too many would argue that point.
Sifting through the majority of posts, it is to the frustration of many, that the blindingly obvious to the outsider/everyday fan that spawns many of the views, such as the persistence of one dimensional football. An FA coaching badge isn't required to see our tactic of route one to Bayo & the flick on to the one other quick attacker, which 99% of the time isn't paying off. Nobody is laying blame at Bayo, we all recognise that he is 38, has a knackered knee that hasn't had a proper healing process & he is invariably marked out of the game by two gargantuan defenders. As fans, we have witnessed that the capability of the players to play their football on the grass is there & whilst we know that we can't take on many of the teams at "total football", it isn't unreasonable to the outsider to expect some mix up of the play to at least keep the other team second guessing, unless there is a clearer reason, why not?
It is also a massive irritation to the club, management & fans that two of our three marquee signings have barely featured so far this season, in Ikpeazu & Tafazoli, added to which, Gape, Adeniran & Thompson have all had long term injuries & now Stewart. What adds to the fires of dissent, is the constant public "shrouding of the truth" regarding those injuries, for example, player "A" has had a late fitness test, then doesn't appear in the squad list for another 6 weeks. Player "B" plays a cameo role in one match for 10 minutes, is in the squad for the next match and doesn't get on the pitch at all when clearly, (to Mr average fan), his services on the field are desperately needed.
I know GA doesn't like all his cards showing, but believe me, the professional football globe is a very small one. If other clubs want to find out who is a long term injury it really doesn't take that much. Whilst I don't possess a long list of contacts within the game, I can usually get "some" inside information without too much effort. If I want that conduit to continue, I can't unfortunately share it. I am on the outside, so it won't take much from those inside the game to find out much more.
A lack of obvious information is the spawn of conjecture, hence why so many of the posts are perceived by some as "trolling" or "disingenuous". If the club/management leave an information hole, it isn't surprising that the hole is filled with guesswork.
@glasshalffull said:
davecz, you fail to understand the purpose of this forum. The gasroom is meant to encourage differing views and therefore posters are allowed to question people with whom they disagree, hopefully without resorting to immature attempts at sarcasm
A hint of sarcasm is better than your questioning someone’s football knowledge when they put up a different view.
Just going back to the actual game yesterday. Funnily enough, I though Bayo was reasonably effective yesterday. He won plenty of headers and his hold up play, to me at least was much better than in some games previously. I thought the problem was more in the players around him. Horgan saw plenty of the ball, but too often the end product was poor. Fred sadly looked very short of confidence. Kashket and McLeary were better, but I wouldn't say either were at their best.
Looking back at the game now, the frustration was that in an even game possession wise, we frequently got our 'flair' players into good positions, but they failed to create anything. Bristol City on the other hand were much more adept at creating. Not sure tactics played any part in the defeat, we got the ball to the feet of right players throughout the match, but on this occasion they didn't deliver.
The long ball to Bayo can be frustrating when it's not working, but can also be used as an easy scapegoat for failure when we lose. Personally I don't think it was a factor yesterday.
@EwanHoosaami said:
To be fair, sustainability is the preferred option of the vast majority of posters on this forum. I doubt too many would argue that point.
Sifting through the majority of posts, it is to the frustration of many, that the blindingly obvious to the outsider/everyday fan that spawns many of the views, such as the persistence of one dimensional football. An FA coaching badge isn't required to see our tactic of route one to Bayo & the flick on to the one other quick attacker, which 99% of the time isn't paying off. Nobody is laying blame at Bayo, we all recognise that he is 38, has a knackered knee that hasn't had a proper healing process & he is invariably marked out of the game by two gargantuan defenders. As fans, we have witnessed that the capability of the players to play their football on the grass is there & whilst we know that we can't take on many of the teams at "total football", it isn't unreasonable to the outsider to expect some mix up of the play to at least keep the other team second guessing, unless there is a clearer reason, why not?
It is also a massive irritation to the club, management & fans that two of our three marquee signings have barely featured so far this season, in Ikpeazu & Tafazoli, added to which, Gape, Adeniran & Thompson have all had long term injuries & now Stewart. What adds to the fires of dissent, is the constant public "shrouding of the truth" regarding those injuries, for example, player "A" has had a late fitness test, then doesn't appear in the squad list for another 6 weeks. Player "B" plays a cameo role in one match for 10 minutes, is in the squad for the next match and doesn't get on the pitch at all when clearly, (to Mr average fan), his services on the field are desperately needed.
I know GA doesn't like all his cards showing, but believe me, the professional football globe is a very small one. If other clubs want to find out who is a long term injury it really doesn't take that much. Whilst I don't possess a long list of contacts within the game, I can usually get "some" inside information without too much effort. If I want that conduit to continue, I can't unfortunately share it. I am on the outside, so it won't take much from those inside the game to find out much more.
A lack of obvious information is the spawn of conjecture, hence why so many of the posts are perceived by some as "trolling" or "disingenuous". If the club/management leave an information hole, it isn't surprising that the hole is filled with guesswork.
This pretty much sums up exactly how I’m feeling. Eat, sleep, play, repeat.
Injuries have forced this upon us somewhat but when players are sat on the bench and not used and we continue in the same vein it is frustrating.particularly as we are only losing by a goal. I think it would be easier to take if we were getting hammered.
The fact we remain reasonably competitive with an unbalanced side makes it harder to take week on week. I’m sure the last few weeks of COVID lockdown have obviously added to this, with little else to focus on.
I do find it amusing that a defender makes two glaring mistakes and gets dropped but attackers miss sitters and don’t choose the right options but get picked every game in the starting line up as they continue to get in good positions.
@EwanHoosaami said:
To be fair, sustainability is the preferred option of the vast majority of posters on this forum. I doubt too many would argue that point.
Sifting through the majority of posts, it is to the frustration of many, that the blindingly obvious to the outsider/everyday fan that spawns many of the views, such as the persistence of one dimensional football. An FA coaching badge isn't required to see our tactic of route one to Bayo & the flick on to the one other quick attacker, which 99% of the time isn't paying off. Nobody is laying blame at Bayo, we all recognise that he is 38, has a knackered knee that hasn't had a proper healing process & he is invariably marked out of the game by two gargantuan defenders. As fans, we have witnessed that the capability of the players to play their football on the grass is there & whilst we know that we can't take on many of the teams at "total football", it isn't unreasonable to the outsider to expect some mix up of the play to at least keep the other team second guessing, unless there is a clearer reason, why not?
It is also a massive irritation to the club, management & fans that two of our three marquee signings have barely featured so far this season, in Ikpeazu & Tafazoli, added to which, Gape, Adeniran & Thompson have all had long term injuries & now Stewart. What adds to the fires of dissent, is the constant public "shrouding of the truth" regarding those injuries, for example, player "A" has had a late fitness test, then doesn't appear in the squad list for another 6 weeks. Player "B" plays a cameo role in one match for 10 minutes, is in the squad for the next match and doesn't get on the pitch at all when clearly, (to Mr average fan), his services on the field are desperately needed.
I know GA doesn't like all his cards showing, but believe me, the professional football globe is a very small one. If other clubs want to find out who is a long term injury it really doesn't take that much. Whilst I don't possess a long list of contacts within the game, I can usually get "some" inside information without too much effort. If I want that conduit to continue, I can't unfortunately share it. I am on the outside, so it won't take much from those inside the game to find out much more.
A lack of obvious information is the spawn of conjecture, hence why so many of the posts are perceived by some as "trolling" or "disingenuous". If the club/management leave an information hole, it isn't surprising that the hole is filled with guesswork.
>
Well said @EwanHoosaami I think everything you have said there sums it up perfectly for me, exactly all my thoughts as well. But you have said it much more eloquently than I could ever have done
Regarding the lack of information about injuries, this is an issue that is by no means unique to Wycombe.
I deal with football managers on a regular basis and finding out who is and isn’t fit to play is like getting blood from a stone. You get the usual cliches like: ‘we’ve got a few knocks to assess’, ‘we need to look at him in the morning’ or ‘he’s got a chance’ etc.
In general, the only time managers are prepared to reveal the true extent of an injury is when it’s obviously a serious one like Van Dijk at Liverpool.
Comments
You are entitled to believe what you want to believe, you can carry on doubting the truthfulness of the manager and his assistant, two of the most honest and honourable men I’ve met in football, but I know what I think.
Aye, and saying something in 300 words doesn’t make it more any more true than saying it in 5.
Lots of usually thoughtful posters letting themselves down a bit today.
Legend, thanks! I thought it was from the book.
@aloysius I am surprised you are questioning @glasshalffull . He knows everything that goes on at the club!! . That is why he has appointed himself in the role of defender of all negative views or comments about the club. Hence most of his posts berating posters who express any sort of negative view about the club, players or management.
Hmmm....and where did Steve Hayes rate as 'honest men in football' when you were supporting his move to sell Adams Park to build a stadium for a London rugby club? Not sure your judgement really counts for much.
I’m not sure that @glasshalffull is in any sense a defender of negative views @davecz.
davecz, you fail to understand the purpose of this forum. The gasroom is meant to encourage differing views and therefore posters are allowed to question people with whom they disagree, hopefully without resorting to immature attempts at sarcasm.
I did support the building of a new stadium in the hope that one day we might get into the Championship and need a ground with bigger capacity, better access and superior facilities than we had at Adams Park. Some people thought that Wycombe getting to the Championship was an impossible dream, subsequent events suggest that maybe their judgement was lacking.
My judgment was that if we moved to a massive ground we didn't own we'd have been out of the league within about five seasons.
I haven't changed my mind.
Are you seriously still saying we should have done it?
We what, Eric?
Accidentally hit post prematurely!
Ps no-one said Championship football was an impossible dream. That was never the argument and it's hugely disingenuous to frame it as such
Sorry Eric, but I remember a meeting at the ground where there was a strong body of opinion that we didn’t need a new stadium because ‘we’ll have 5,000 people rattling around in a big stadium watching lower division football.’ Surely you remember people saying that?
Yes, that's what would have happened
That is in no way the same thing as saying that Championship football was an impossible dream.
It certainly would have been had we moved. As suggested earlier, we would have been very unlikely to survive as a league club
Returning to the original point made by Aloysius, I was interested to hear Fulham assistant manager Stuart Gray say on MOTD that although Scott Parker was absent from their game against Southampton due to being tested positive for COVID, he ‘spoke to the players before the game and at half time and he was on the phone to us as well.’ A manager can have a big input even when he’s not physically present at the game.
While optimism is a great thing, and I would not put it past this club to get back to the second tier at some point, I am a little concerned that the owners are "prepared to be a yo-yo club". I am hoping the magnitude of what was achieved last season is in perspective, and that it is not as simple as opening another can of miracle juice.
Rotherham have yo-yoed, but that includes a playoff win and a PPG promotion, which though valid, hints that it would have only taken things to go slightly differently for them to fail to get back up.
With the salary cap, I am hopeful we can at the very least be a stable L1 club, but I am a little concerned that talk of being prepared to yo-yo is like me finding a suitcase of money, and stating "I am prepared to find a suitcase of money every other year". Lovely if it happens, but it is no failure if we end up in L1 without getting back up for many years (or ever).
Rather that than 'Let's chuck everything at staying in the Championship' and risk crippling ourselves financially and doing a Yeovil (they lost 6-1 to Torquay today, madness). Yo-yoing is easier said than done, but aren't most things this club does?! Totally agree that being a stable League One club would be no failure though.
@chairboyscentral agreed on not going crazy with spending! I think sustainability should be paramount. I just don't want one miracle season to raise expectations so much that anyone is disappointed in GA and the boys if we are 12th in L1 next season.
I agree with the view that it’s dangerous to assume we could quickly bounce back if we do get relegated. Football just doesn’t work like that, I’m afraid. However, I remain hopeful that we can still survive with players returning from injury and the prospect of the squad being strengthened by a modest outlay in January.
I think it's already done that unfortunately. People didn't like that we were still 'acting like a small club' when we were losing all those games around the turn of the year last season. I get the frustration at this current run - I feel it too - but there hasn't half been some delusion going around recently.
Talking about six points in December is deluded son
Relax
To be fair, sustainability is the preferred option of the vast majority of posters on this forum. I doubt too many would argue that point.
Sifting through the majority of posts, it is to the frustration of many, that the blindingly obvious to the outsider/everyday fan that spawns many of the views, such as the persistence of one dimensional football. An FA coaching badge isn't required to see our tactic of route one to Bayo & the flick on to the one other quick attacker, which 99% of the time isn't paying off. Nobody is laying blame at Bayo, we all recognise that he is 38, has a knackered knee that hasn't had a proper healing process & he is invariably marked out of the game by two gargantuan defenders. As fans, we have witnessed that the capability of the players to play their football on the grass is there & whilst we know that we can't take on many of the teams at "total football", it isn't unreasonable to the outsider to expect some mix up of the play to at least keep the other team second guessing, unless there is a clearer reason, why not?
It is also a massive irritation to the club, management & fans that two of our three marquee signings have barely featured so far this season, in Ikpeazu & Tafazoli, added to which, Gape, Adeniran & Thompson have all had long term injuries & now Stewart. What adds to the fires of dissent, is the constant public "shrouding of the truth" regarding those injuries, for example, player "A" has had a late fitness test, then doesn't appear in the squad list for another 6 weeks. Player "B" plays a cameo role in one match for 10 minutes, is in the squad for the next match and doesn't get on the pitch at all when clearly, (to Mr average fan), his services on the field are desperately needed.
I know GA doesn't like all his cards showing, but believe me, the professional football globe is a very small one. If other clubs want to find out who is a long term injury it really doesn't take that much. Whilst I don't possess a long list of contacts within the game, I can usually get "some" inside information without too much effort. If I want that conduit to continue, I can't unfortunately share it. I am on the outside, so it won't take much from those inside the game to find out much more.
A lack of obvious information is the spawn of conjecture, hence why so many of the posts are perceived by some as "trolling" or "disingenuous". If the club/management leave an information hole, it isn't surprising that the hole is filled with guesswork.
A hint of sarcasm is better than your questioning someone’s football knowledge when they put up a different view.
Just going back to the actual game yesterday. Funnily enough, I though Bayo was reasonably effective yesterday. He won plenty of headers and his hold up play, to me at least was much better than in some games previously. I thought the problem was more in the players around him. Horgan saw plenty of the ball, but too often the end product was poor. Fred sadly looked very short of confidence. Kashket and McLeary were better, but I wouldn't say either were at their best.
Looking back at the game now, the frustration was that in an even game possession wise, we frequently got our 'flair' players into good positions, but they failed to create anything. Bristol City on the other hand were much more adept at creating. Not sure tactics played any part in the defeat, we got the ball to the feet of right players throughout the match, but on this occasion they didn't deliver.
The long ball to Bayo can be frustrating when it's not working, but can also be used as an easy scapegoat for failure when we lose. Personally I don't think it was a factor yesterday.
This pretty much sums up exactly how I’m feeling. Eat, sleep, play, repeat.
Injuries have forced this upon us somewhat but when players are sat on the bench and not used and we continue in the same vein it is frustrating.particularly as we are only losing by a goal. I think it would be easier to take if we were getting hammered.
The fact we remain reasonably competitive with an unbalanced side makes it harder to take week on week. I’m sure the last few weeks of COVID lockdown have obviously added to this, with little else to focus on.
I do find it amusing that a defender makes two glaring mistakes and gets dropped but attackers miss sitters and don’t choose the right options but get picked every game in the starting line up as they continue to get in good positions.
>
Well said @EwanHoosaami I think everything you have said there sums it up perfectly for me, exactly all my thoughts as well. But you have said it much more eloquently than I could ever have done
Regarding the lack of information about injuries, this is an issue that is by no means unique to Wycombe.
I deal with football managers on a regular basis and finding out who is and isn’t fit to play is like getting blood from a stone. You get the usual cliches like: ‘we’ve got a few knocks to assess’, ‘we need to look at him in the morning’ or ‘he’s got a chance’ etc.
In general, the only time managers are prepared to reveal the true extent of an injury is when it’s obviously a serious one like Van Dijk at Liverpool.