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Match day thread: Fleetwood

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  • Definitely time to move on from Bayo if we go up, but he's never a bad option to have at this level - as long as he is 'just' an option. Seeing him suffering with his knee for the second season running, though, I do wonder if the decision might be made for us.

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    I don't think he's good enough on the ball for the Championship - it's a vastly more technical division - but I suppose there's still time to improve on that.

    I have to disagree with you on that one. On both points actually. Plenty of players with less ability than Gape are playing in the Championship.

    It's fine to not like certain players. I rate Gape very highly and in particular his technical ability. You don't but I suppose its the same as last weeks Grimmer vs McCarthy debate.

  • edited February 2020

    I like Gape, I just don't rate him that highly. For me, the only clear Championship standard player currently in the squad is Fred. I'd fancy Wheeler to do a job there - didn't really get a fair chance at QPR - but he's probably at the upper end of the prime age range for making the move. Freeman would be close with better end product and Stewart with better distribution, imo. I won't be surprised to see Ofoborh and Smyth as regulars in that division in the future.

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    I like Gape, I just don't rate him that highly. For me, the only clear Championship standard player currently in the squad is Fred. I'd fancy Wheeler to do a job there - didn't really get a fair chance at QPR - but he's probably at the upper end of the prime age range for making the move. Freeman would be close with better end product and Stewart with better distribution, imo. I won't be surprised to see Ofoborh and Smyth as regulars in that division in the future.

    Spot on

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    I like Gape, I just don't rate him that highly. For me, the only clear Championship standard player currently in the squad is Fred. I'd fancy Wheeler to do a job there - didn't really get a fair chance at QPR - but he's probably at the upper end of the prime age range for making the move. Freeman would be close with better end product and Stewart with better distribution, imo. I won't be surprised to see Ofoborh and Smyth as regulars in that division in the future.

    Some would argue Fred and Wheeler are two who've had a crack at the Championship and been under whelming. Smyth would fall in to that category too.
    I just don't see this huge gap in ability for the most part. The top three or four players in each side are clearly far better but the rest are not from what I've seen.

    If I was stats based I get a list of players to back that up but I'm not .

  • edited February 2020

    @Right_in_the_Middle said:

    @chairboyscentral said:
    I don't think he's good enough on the ball for the Championship - it's a vastly more technical division - but I suppose there's still time to improve on that.

    I have to disagree with you on that one. On both points actually. Plenty of players with less ability than Gape are playing in the Championship.

    It's fine to not like certain players. I rate Gape very highly and in particular his technical ability. You don't but I suppose its the same as last weeks Grimmer vs McCarthy debate.

    Of the four young central midfielders we've brought through in the Ainsworth era - Scowen, O'Nien, Gape and Thompson - I think the order of quality matches the chronological order, though maybe O'Nien pips Scowen through sheer exuberance, gung-ho drive and charisma. Sunderland are very fortunate to have both in the squad - if they get promoted, I hope a big part will be down to those two linking up.

  • Imagine thinking it’s time to move on from the most influential player we’ve had in a decade!

  • @floyd said:
    Imagine thinking it’s time to move on from the most influential player we’ve had in a decade!

    it's utterly ridiculous, and has gone a long way to turning this into an awful thread(TM)

  • I know it's an "if", but if JJ had pace, he would be a PL player, I am convinced. There is nothing else lacking in his game. He is simply superb.

  • @floyd said:
    Imagine thinking it’s time to move on from the most influential player we’ve had in a decade!

    I know. Ditch a player who's been key in where we are just because of an idea the next league up is some super league with everyone being 'Championship Quality'. I don't get it

  • @Shev said:
    I know it's an "if", but if JJ had pace, he would be a PL player, I am convinced. There is nothing else lacking in his game. He is simply superb.

    Championship probably but absolutely not PL

  • Bloomfield in a (reduced) playing/coaching role is a certainly whatever happens I reckon. Still think Pattison has something to offer. Liked Mascoll when he played. Not sure about the others. I'm sure we will have long debates and get it all totally wrong and be surprised by what Gareth and Dobbo (if we go up) or Nathan Jones (if we don't :-) ) puts together in the summer.

  • @Right_in_the_Middle said:

    @floyd said:
    Imagine thinking it’s time to move on from the most influential player we’ve had in a decade!

    I know. Ditch a player who's been key in where we are just because of an idea the next league up is some super league with everyone being 'Championship Quality'. I don't get it

    Out of interest, how big do you think the jump up to the Championship actually is?

  • Since taking the Sky shilling I've watched a lot of Championship. It is faster and more skillful to an extent, but there are still a lot of clogging dull sides. It would be unlikely but not impossible that we could survive a season. It's a hard league for ANYONE to get out of as Forest being down there for 20 years illustrates. Someone told me Charlie Adam was there on Saturday...on a one year at Reading, so perhaps Gareth is already looking for some cheap journeymen with experience? :smiley:

  • @Vital said:
    Well I'd like to go up and enjoy a season in the Championship even if we lost 90% of the games.

    As long as we didn't start signing players on silly money on long term contracts, we could enjoy a season of bumper gates & vastly increased revenue while having a whale of a time playing the underdog every week.

    Expectations would be low and every point we gained would be cause for celebration.

    So what if we came straight back down. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.

    This post, in my opinion, is absolutely the right way to view things. I’ve covered a lot of Championship games for Sky this season and the overall standard is certainly higher than League One, but it’s nothing to be afraid of.
    Of course we’d need to strengthen the squad and of course we’d be favourites to go straight back down (as we’ve been for the last two seasons in League 1), but what an adventure it would be.
    The share of the TV pot is huge compared to what it is now, we’d sell out for most home games and we’d surely attract legions of new fans who could stick with us in the future.
    Most important of all, it could be many years before an opportunity like this presents itself again. To give you a current example, look what Sheffield United have achieved with a squad of players who probably wouldn’t get into any other team in the PL. Underdogs can have their day.

  • @chairboyscentral said:

    @Right_in_the_Middle said:

    @floyd said:
    Imagine thinking it’s time to move on from the most influential player we’ve had in a decade!

    I know. Ditch a player who's been key in where we are just because of an idea the next league up is some super league with everyone being 'Championship Quality'. I don't get it

    Out of interest, how big do you think the jump up to the Championship actually is?

    Clearly not anywhere near as big as you do but I wonder if we are talking about a mixture of things. Clearly squad sizes and the strength in depth us higher. I have already stated that the best few players in each side are better than players in League One. Based on these things established Championship sides are going to get far more points than us in our current state.

    What we are talking about is an individual player. I think plenty of our squad could make good at level. They might not be a 'best four' player but could play plenty of games. I don't see the skill level as much different in these players.

    How big is the jump? 2 normal steps if you want a figure. Not that much for most of our squad .

  • edited February 2020

    I think that's a bit harsh on some of the Sheffield United players. They're succeeding in a unique system which probably none of them have ever been asked to play before, which is testament to their ability - and the genius of Chris Wilder, of course, the best manager in the country at the moment imo.

  • @floyd said:
    Pattison was a pre-investment signing wasn’t he? And so was Gape’s renewal IIRC.

    Bloomfield’s got at least another year in him, he actually seems to be getting better with age.

    You are correct. That's why I say he "feels" like one. Sort of cheaper salary, has potential type.
    Every chance he could be Freeman esque and take a long time being patient to come through though.

  • I perhaps should have said many of their players’ but I don’t recall any other clubs bidding for their players in January and I was trying to make the point that less talented players doesn’t necessarily mean a less talented team if you have other qualities .

  • How quickly things change. I'm sure it wasn't that long we were talking about who was League 2 standard and who might, or might not, be up to the exacting standards of League 1.

    I think @glasshalffull's comment about "legions* of new fans" (is this usage still allowed in this context?) would potentially be the main benefit of a miraculous promotion this season. The interest in the town probably would be significant and that could and should generate a new generation of supporters drawn to watch our predictable and boring anti-football** against thrilling, flowing opponents and then spend an hour and a half sat in the car park(s) after the game trying to get home*** (FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF DOUBT I'M NOT BEING SERIOUS) (Okay, I am being serious here). I've been around long enough to know that this would top up our support for many years to come, with only a gradual tailing off as people grow older and move away from town, until the next peal arrives.

  • indeed @bookertease that JJ has no pace, Bloomfield will struggle and Bayo won't get the chances he gets down there! :smiley:

  • This is an odd debate.

    Of course IF we got promotion, it would present some wonderful opportunities but also some challenges too. But of course we should try to get there if we can. Unfortunatey there are a number of other clubs, frankly bigger clubs with bigger budgets and better players, doing their utmost to stop us though. The odds must be that we will not achieve that promotion.

    If we do we will no doubt seek to learn the lessons from the successes and failures of similar sized clubs (Burton and Yeovil) who did make it to the promised land....

  • an odd debate about hypothetical situations on the Gasroom? Surely not?

  • @floyd said:
    I really like Don, but I wonder if he thinks he needs a new challenge.

    Don Woodward ?

  • @chairboyscentral said:
    I like Gape, I just don't rate him that highly. For me, the only clear Championship standard player currently in the squad is Fred. I'd fancy Wheeler to do a job there - didn't really get a fair chance at QPR - but he's probably at the upper end of the prime age range for making the move. Freeman would be close with better end product and Stewart with better distribution, imo. I won't be surprised to see Ofoborh and Smyth as regulars in that division in the future.

    I agree with you on Gape. I think he is very good at what he does, at this level, but I don't see him drastically improving any of the teams above us/around us. He suits our style of play perfectly and does what we need him to do, nothing more, rarely less.

  • @DevC said:
    This is an odd debate.

    Of course IF we got promotion, it would present some wonderful opportunities but also some challenges too. But of course we should try to get there if we can. Unfortunatey there are a number of other clubs, frankly bigger clubs with bigger budgets and better players, doing their utmost to stop us though. The odds must be that we will not achieve that promotion.

    If we do we will no doubt seek to learn the lessons from the successes and failures of similar sized clubs (Burton and Yeovil) who did make it to the promised land....

    If there's one thing Dev doesn't like, its hypothesising.

  • @OxfordBlue said:
    >

    If there's one thing Dev doesn't like, its hypothesising.

    Lol.

  • ......at least after that result the Fonz jacket can go back in the wardrobe.

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