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Match day thread: Fleetwood

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  • Waddock-esque is pretty fair.

    Sadly Allsop seems to be having a serious crisis of confidence and I wonder if that's rubbing off on those in front of him - even against Bristol Rovers we saw players making mistakes that were out of character.

  • I thought Pattison showed some great touches last night and we had quite a few patches of excellent pass and move. Without bayo we needed someone central and i thought that might be parker. Perhaps samuel should have been wide with JP in the middle. And the idea last night that players were 'gutless' is ridiculous. Some people played below their best and Fleetwood played very well. Agree that 4-3-3 is how we have to play with our squad. For me freeman and Smyth have shown flashes but have not made the best of their chances. Rocky had a couple of howlers but also got himself out of the first one and kept us in it at 1-0 so swings and roundabouts. Sido should have spent more time talking to his fellow defenders than telling wheeler what to do. Stewart had too much to do at the back seemingly on his tod...which with our usual lack of a vocal goalie led to confusion! All opinions if course.

  • Bit of a dichotomy there, @fame_46 if he (Alex Pattison) is not ready for a regular place in the team and there is no reserve team in which to develop those skills. Perhaps a loan to a club where he would get that opportunity could be the answer.

    Interestingly, he played 29 games for Yeovil last season - more than he has played here so far. That must be disappointing for him.

  • Having had the night to sleep on it, and despite always being an optimist, last night was desperately disappointing. I actually quite liked the idea of two attacking minded midfielders at home in a game we needed to win, but it was clear from about 15 minutes in that Fleetwood we’re going to overwhelm us time and again they the middle. I thought Gape was very poor.

    The defense never got over the first couple of minutes, Sido’s mis-kick the first time he was near the ball and Rocky’s pass straight to their forward. I should think that’ll be the last we see of him this season. And I like Sido, but I think this is the end of the road for him as well.

    I hope Parker starts through the middle on Saturday with Smyth and Fred either side. Samuel would have been perfect for our spell as a mid table L2 team, but if we’ve got pretensions of being a top 10 L1 side, he’s got to pose more of a threat.

  • edited February 2020

    Wheeler-Parker-Smyth on Saturday for me, and then Fred for Smyth when fit. Speaking of Smyth, he really needs to sort out his attitude. Last night, he was taking nibbles at players after they'd won the ball off him and messing around in stoppage time - seemed more concerned with complaining to the assistant about an off-the-ball push than taking a throw when we desperately needed to push for the equaliser. Great player, so he should focus on doing that rather than all the nonsense.

  • @micra - think I said in an earlier post a loan might be the answer.

    My other thoughts are that maybe Gaz thought he would be able to break him as the season progressed. What Gaz probably didn’t expect was to be top of league 1 during first half of the season, therefore Pattinson getting less chances to develop.

    Looking at his stats last season, 29 played, 4 assists and 6 yellow cards is not a bad first season return as a pro and something to build on.

    Based on where we are, I wonder if being pragmatic is the answer and looking at the out of contract midfielders as a stop gap. Tom Carroll, Joe Lesley and the likes of Jordan Mitch are all available and may fancy short term contract till end of season.

    I’m sure Gaz could talk them in to it!

  • Agree with most of that @floyd especially the last paragraph. Surely Smyth, very much a right-footed player, would be much happier on that side. Time and again he sets off diagonally towards the right rather than making for the goal line and getting in a cross. Freeman, in contrast, consistently gets crosses in from the left.

  • Picking Allsopp last night was a rare error of judgment from Gaz

    He was a liability, and as poorly as the centre halves played it can't help having him behind them when he's playing like that

    Fred looked lively though. I'd like to see him and Smyth either side of Bayo and tear into Bolton from minute one on Saturday

  • Is it me or is Fred developing physically into the Bayo Mk 2 that I always hoped he would?

  • Stockdale, Charles, Ofoborh, Fred and Bayo have to start on Saturday and if so I think we can get a win. Smyth I think is totally overrated being too lightweight and with no end product.

    For me, Smyth and Aarons (when he was here) are the biggest disappointments this season having regard to their supposed exceptional ability.

  • edited February 2020

    @mooneyman said:

    Stockdale, Charles, Ofoborh, Fred and Bayo have to start on Saturday and if so I think we can get a win. Smyth I think is totally overrated being too lightweight and with no end product.

    For me, Smyth and Aarons (when he was here) are the biggest disappointments this season having regard to their supposed exceptional ability.

    Who would you take out for Ofoborh? I am a big fan but not sure he gets in if Gape, Thompson and Blooms are fully fit.

  • As for Fred and Smyth in the same side, I don't think you can drop David Wheeler. And would Fred start on Saturday anyway? I reckon he'll come off the bench again but earlier - then start against Tranmere the following game.

  • @chairboyscentral - I would play Ofobohr in place of Thompson on the basis that the current midfield isn't producing (probably due to being knackered) and we need fresh legs. With regard to your comment on Smyth, I never said they should play together, one has an end product, the other doesn't.

  • @mooneyman Makes sense. And yeah, the Smyth comment was just a general one.

  • @fame_46 said:
    @prufrock_91 - creativity is a massive issue for us.

    4-3-3 is our best option based on the personnel we have currently. No issues with that, but break it down further and it’s something we need to fix.

    Our goal difference is plus 3, you have to scroll down to Burton in 12th for a like for like. Last night is an example where we’ve lost by an odd goal, based on the game I saw, some creativity might have won us the game.

    Our left back is our second top scorer, name me another team in the PL and EFL that is challenging at the upper end of the table where this is the case.

    We have Bayo, Fred, Parker, Wheeler, Kashket, Samuel and Smyth. It’s not rocket science, we need someone to enable and create opportunities for them.

    I just think it would be pointless trying to find a creative midfielder that works for us at this level, when it's rare he'll get the ball often enough on the ground in space to make things work.

    It's about doing what we do effectively, getting midfielders to feed off second balls, and using Bayo to make space for wingers to get free. The only creative midfielder I have seen work under Ainsworth was Eze, Saunders really was feeding off scraps. We even turned O'Nien, a technical player at the start, into something of a hatchet man. I'm not bothered by it at all, there are plenty of ways to win a football game, and if we suddenly tried to keep the ball on the floor we presumably get hammered like Rochdale. Let's do what we do well, more often than we are doing.

  • I must make more of an effort to look out for David Wheeler. More knowledgeable people than me on here rave about him but he often seems to go missing in my eyes. I forgot he was playing 2nd half yesterday.

  • What annoys me is that i think Wheeler is a really good footballer, but he never seems to get the ball on the floor. Its like we have seen he is good in the air and just want to hoof it at his head. Feel like we are wasting his talent

  • Wheeler started well yesterday, but then went missing. I'm kinda with @arnos_grove on this, in that I quite often forget he's on the pitch. When I do notice though, it's usually something to be pleased about - his tracking back and covering for McCarthy at the start of yesterday's game were superb, but then he mostly stopped.

  • @prufrock_91 said:
    I think you're right @Commoner - our best formation by far is a 433. We attack best when Bayo is up top with either Fred/ Smyth/ Wheeler on the wings, and hard-working midfielders picking up second balls. As a defensive team, I prefer Samuel up top - running non-stop and helping us counter.

    The issue is not a creative midfielder, the way we currently play that would be pointless as they wouldn't get the ball on the ground long enough to unlock a defence. The issue is that we aren't playing the way we do play well enough at the moment. Our early season pace was made by a strong defence, getting the ball forward and nicking a couple of goals. When we can't defend and can't keep the ball up front, it's hardly surprising the formula doesn't work.

    Trouble with that analysis is that now, in the second half if the season, the bigger teams have got their acts together, cherry picking line ups from deeper squads to counter known opposition formations.
    They have done their homework on what was an unfancied Wycombe and we have been worked out. So, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome, is simply not going to work.
    Creativity will be the key to promotion, if that is what we want? Certainly it would be a necessity for survival at a higher level. I just don’t think we have it in the building.

  • Got a bit of Ian Stonebridge about him Wheeler hasn't he?

  • I think tne thing about wheeler could be that he is a tidy skilful footballer who does not make as many mistakes as the people he passes the ball to.

  • @prufrock_91 said:

    @fame_46 said:
    @prufrock_91 - creativity is a massive issue for us. ...........

    if we suddenly tried to keep the ball on the floor we presumably get hammered like Rochdale. Let's do what we do well, more often than we are doing.

    fame_46 agreed,
    @prufrock_91 sorry but it’s stopped working, not because we are worse at it but because the opposition are better at countering our hoof ball.
    Once, just once this season, I would like to see a midfielder hold the ball, look up, and thread a pass into the β€˜corridor of uncertainty’. We have the quality of strikers to get on the end of that and hit the target.

  • @eric_plant said:
    Got a bit of Ian Stonebridge about him Wheeler hasn't he?

    As in tidy, skillful but doesn't seem to have a natural role in the team?

  • @perfidious_albion said:

    @prufrock_91 said:

    @fame_46 said:

    Once, just once this season, I would like to see a midfielder hold the ball, look up, and thread a pass into the β€˜corridor of uncertainty’. We have the quality of strikers to get on the end of that and hit the target.

    Im assuming you mean centrally as we took it to them down.the wings two or three times last night. To be honest - early howler and ref aside - i thought the first half was pretty even and even an enjoyable watch.

  • @perfidious_albion said:

    @prufrock_91 said:

    @fame_46 said:
    @prufrock_91 - creativity is a massive issue for us. ...........

    if we suddenly tried to keep the ball on the floor we presumably get hammered like Rochdale. Let's do what we do well, more often than we are doing.

    fame_46 agreed,
    @prufrock_91 sorry but it’s stopped working, not because we are worse at it but because the opposition are better at countering our hoof ball.
    Once, just once this season, I would like to see a midfielder hold the ball, look up, and thread a pass into the β€˜corridor of uncertainty’. We have the quality of strikers to get on the end of that and hit the target.

    I think you're probably right there, teams have worked us out - just a case of whether, like against Rovers, we have enough about us more often than not to make it work.

    There have been flashes this season (v Peterborough, Lincoln and Blackpool) that we can pass it around for a bit, I just dont think it's something Gaz particularly wants to do. We've never really had a prolific goalscorer, or creative midfielder under him, and for all the fantastic things he has brought to this club, perhaps it's time he does start thinking of another way to play - especially if Bayo retires in the summer.

  • Got a bit of Ian Stonebridge about him Wheeler hasn't he?> @floyd said:

    @eric_plant said:
    Got a bit of Ian Stonebridge about him Wheeler hasn't he?

    As in tidy, skillful but doesn't seem to have a natural role in the team?

    And a conventional haircut

    He scores more goals though to be fair

  • GA is almost beyond criticism at this point, and rightly so. But this summer i hope he thinks about why we find the Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday turnaround so tough, and why there's such a fall-off in our form in the second half of the season.

  • We just need to go for it on Saturday. Fred + Smyth, attack attack attack. Full backs bombing on. Midfielders making runs ahead of Bayo.

    No point holding back now. Gaz can whip them up into a frenzy and send them out like men possessed

  • edited February 2020

    Wheeler has been one of our players of the season. So consistent, does the less glamorous stuff brilliantly - knows exactly when to press and when to cover space, tracks back and covers the right-back expertly, times his tackles well, and wins so much in the air (although it would help if players were less static for the flick-ons). He also almost always picks the right ball and has some magic in his locker - e.g. pass to Pattison which led to Blooms' goal v Burton and assist for Samuel v Blackpool. Clinical with the few scoring chances he gets as well. There's no way you can drop him unless his form suddenly nosedives dramatically.

  • edited February 2020

    @eric_plant said:
    Got a bit of Ian Stonebridge about him Wheeler hasn't he?> @floyd said:

    @eric_plant said:
    Got a bit of Ian Stonebridge about him Wheeler hasn't he?

    As in tidy, skillful but doesn't seem to have a natural role in the team?

    And a conventional haircut

    He scores more goals though to be fair

    3 in 31 in all comps this season. That feels Stonebridge-esque. Although in Wheeler's defence he's not necessarily in the team as a goal scorer like Ian was.

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