@DevC said:
I fear I might be in a minority of one here, but....
1) No doubt Evans caught McCarthy with his elbow but looked to me like he was simply jumping for a ball using his arms to aid his jump. Not sure there was any intent. Maybe still counts as reckless though?
2) for the goal, good ball in, Madden got away from defender, obvious place for Madden to seek to score was near post so Alllsop was seeking to cover that, actually he barely made contact causing Allsop to be dummied and ball to go in at far post. I am not sure many if any GKs are going to stop that.
Allsop's early pass out was calamitous from which he recovered admirably but apart from that I thought he was fine esp the one on one recovery save at the end.
It's generally your MO to do the "against the grain" argument, so I expect to see the Evans elbow utterly blatant, and the goal soft as you like when I re-watch shortly
@DJWYC14 said: @Malone do you not recall Smyth tearing us apart with Accy last season?
He started the season excellently before a long injury lay off.
He would be a huge asset if used correctly playing on the shoulder rather than shoehorned out wide.
Could make a similar case for Kashket.
If it was the away game, I didn't see it. If it was the home game, I can't remember I'm afraid.
He scored a nice goal for us early on. I can't recall him being excellent as such.
Would be delighted if he hits form so terrific I'm totally banged to rights though.
Ched Evans, Eric, is like it or not in law an innocent man and hence was failed by the legal system in incarcerating him for an offence in law he did not commit.
None of which is remotely relevant as to whether or not he deserved to be sent off last night.
@chairboyscentral said:
I'm a big Sido fan, but even I've lost faith in him recently.
He's a notch above Phillips, but clearly a big notch down from Charles.
I can't see he has any hope of a renewal at the end of the season, as he's shown he can't cover right back any more, and his centre back performances haven't been too clever either.
Checked the highlights out, and having missed the first 5mins live, wow, that howler from Allsopp.
Literally pee rolls it 8 yards straight to their man for a super easy chance. Yes he saved it, but then even the next shot can't hold it. Dreadful stuff.
Stockdale is back in at the weekend without doubt.
I can't see that Evans has looked first, but he definitely knows where his man is, and flings an arm out. The only surprise is that there's not the standard mass confrontation. Sido gets over to the ref, but it's all dealt with very swiftly and calmly - maybe so obvious and a swinging arm, rather than a dangerous elbow? Maybe.
Their goal is farcical, but with a man right in front of the keeper, who can knock it either side, you can sort of undersstand Allsopp looking so all at sea.
Surprised they didn't show the Stubati mix up, where both missed it, allowing a guy in for an easy chance, that Allsopp made a great save for.
I have to say at first I thought the red card was soft from the Beechdean, but bloody hell how blatant was that? And why did Evans do it? Goal still looked absolutely ridiculous though.
@DevC obviously my eyes like the ref's (surprising in his case!) are better because it looked a deliberate elbow to me.
I don't agree with those saying our best formation is 433. Even when we play it effectively it's not much fun to watch, just long balls up to Bayo. Against the better teams he's marked out of it, among many of the others his knock-ons don't get close to our wide forwards, stuck in no man's land. Hence why we've relied on JJ for so many goals, even during our purple patch.
The only other formation we've utilised is a 442 with a narrow diamond which gives us no chance as soon as our opponents use the width of the midfield. Compared to that, yes, 433 is better. But goodness it's a bit of a Hobson's choice.
Why oh why can't we surprise our opponents - and delight our fans - by playing a traditional 442 using Wheeler, Freeman, Fred, Smyth as natural wide men? Giving us a chance to play to Bayo with someone tight alongside him?
And for those who say Gareth Ainsworth is now above criticism, once more I beg to differ. He assembles a great squad, he manages and motivates his players well, he's good at pr and many of the other skills required in a modern manager. But all these years in he still has a habit of picking bizarre formations; often employs overly negative tactics and regularly fails to shake things up when it's not working. None of the players are above criticism and nor is the gaffer.
We played a traditional 4-4-2 against Bristol Rovers and Tranmere (switched to a 4-2-3-1 then 4-3-3 in the former) and a 4-3-1-2/4-3-2-1 at Rotherham, so 4-3-3 and diamond 4-4-2 definitely aren't the only formations we've used - also played most of the first half at home to Peterborough in a 3-5-2.
Gareth isn't above criticism, but I think he's closer to that status than almost any other manager.
When we played against Rochdale recently, I think we had a midfield 2 then. Rochdale waltzed into acres of space.
There's a very real reason many teams don't play the traditional 4-4-2 anymore.
But like all things, it's all about the right personnel and the right formation for the right game. That's why Samuel and Bayo can look supreme in some games, and utterly bankrupt in others.
Gaz tactically adjusted on Saturday better than I can remember in quite a while - up to about the Burton game, he was getting it spot on most of the time and adapting brilliantly to the opposition - which made it extra annoying that he didn't change things before the very end last night.
Yes, we allowed many a "footballing" team to bluster around playing lovely football in their own half, then pick them off.
But then Oxford worked out we had no width, and it all fell apart from there really.
Gaz is already talking about a big window, which is very unlike him, so I wonder if we already have some deals in the mixer?
Hopefully the fear of Bayo retiring and it being a retour of Sanchez once Bates and Devine had finished, doesn't repeat itself.
It’s like the club , the team, Gareth Ainsworth and the rest of the coaching staff don’t have the self believe and confidence to truly challenge for an automatic promotion place. It feels like the club would rather be fighting a heroic battle to avoid relegation. Are the slightly embarrassed to be in the top 2 ?
Or we aren't that good, were getting by with an approach that wasn't likely to be sustainable, and other teams have come on stronger after poor starts and had greater spending power January. For a brief period in the autumn, we were one of the best teams in the league and it was impossible not to get caught up in everything, but apart from the fact it's been as dramatic as it has, our drop-off should come as no surprise.
Or, as I remember Rob Couhig saying at a Trust meeting, his target was eventually the Championship, BUT we did not currently have the support infrastructure in place.
I am not saying we are deliberately dropping points, but I would suggest that Gareth is not under undue pressure to get promotion or indeed the play offs. Indeed defeat in a play off final may be the best outcome in financial terms.
Personally I feel that we would not have the budget to improve the squad sufficiently to have a chance of competing in the Championship next season (bearing in mind the Trust have to contribute 25%) We would need to sign as a bare minimum Championship quality players to replace Allsop, Charles (due to his physical restrictions), Jacobson (his lack of pace would be exposed) Thompson, Bloomfield (due to age), Bayo (due to age), Jombati, Freeman and probably Kashket as regular first team starters.
I would be more than happy for us to finish mid table this season and see what Gareth can do with a larger playing budget and a more stable financial environment.
I appreciate that the likes of Mr Parry and others will describe me as defeatist, but I have the long term success of the club at heart rather than short term progress.
I didn't want to bring myself or the general mood down by saying it when we were flying, but there is no way this club is ready for the Championship - or as ready as a small club can ever be for that colossal jump. If it happens then we're not exactly gonna go "Nah, you're alright", but I sometimes wonder if some fans realise how huge the gulf in quality between the two divisions is. I too would be happy with mid-table and am looking forward to a summer when Gaz has not loads but at least a bit more £ to play with.
@chairboyscentral, is it really true to say that GA will have any more £ to play with next year?
As I understand it we're at the limit this season of what we can spend on wages due to the SCMP.
Not sure I see that changing next year, because in order to do so means we have to have a higher revenue. How are we going to generate that next year above what we have this year?
We seem to be have really upped our game off the field already and I'm not sure what will attract more punters in to watch if they won't come to see a team 2nd in the league.
I know it was a poor display last night from the team but only 3286(?) supporters turning out for a midweek match is also pretty poor IMHO even if it was cold.
Anyway the summer will be, I believe, a challenge to evolve the squad to be able to compete without 2 or 3 from Bayo, Blooms, Charles and JJ - all key players this year.
The major way to change the limit imposed by SCMP is to be in the Championship and this season still represents a fantastic opportunity to get there so I am hopeful that, even though it wasn't planned for yet, the whole focus of GA and the team is still on gaining promotion.
Well I'd like to go up and enjoy a season in the Championship even if we lost 90% of the games.
As long as we didn't start signing players on silly money on long term contracts, we could enjoy a season of bumper gates & vastly increased revenue while having a whale of a time playing the underdog every week.
Expectations would be low and every point we gained would be cause for celebration.
So what if we came straight back down. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
I wanted to go up more for the thrill of the success and memories of promotion itself, rather than the inevitable beatdowns next season in the basket case second tier. Though it would be fun to play the Leeds, Forest and Sheffield Wednesdays of the world week in week out, with low expectations.
I am actually serene at having 13 pressure free games. Let's see how many points we can get, and harbour hopes of sneaking in the playoffs, but let's also not forget how ridiculously this team has been punching above their weight.
I am so proud, and will never forget those couple of months at the top!
It didn't feel great when after we lost the play off final, there was talk how it was a "good" thing as it was too soon etc.
Hopefully there's none of that talk if we do drop out of the playoffs.
This season is still a superb opportunity. From playing Boltons kids day one, to having a team lower than usual in the league. To plenty of things that just seemed to go for us earlier in the season.
There's no guarantee at all that whatever we do in the summer will see us anywhere near as high next season.
I can't really imagine being in the mindset of being concerned about going up. If you're a Wycombe fan and you can't get giddy and carried away by the prospect of getting into the championship then I'm not sure what the point is
Comments
It's generally your MO to do the "against the grain" argument, so I expect to see the Evans elbow utterly blatant, and the goal soft as you like when I re-watch shortly
If it was the away game, I didn't see it. If it was the home game, I can't remember I'm afraid.
He scored a nice goal for us early on. I can't recall him being excellent as such.
Would be delighted if he hits form so terrific I'm totally banged to rights though.
Ched Evans, Eric, is like it or not in law an innocent man and hence was failed by the legal system in incarcerating him for an offence in law he did not commit.
None of which is remotely relevant as to whether or not he deserved to be sent off last night.
He's a notch above Phillips, but clearly a big notch down from Charles.
I can't see he has any hope of a renewal at the end of the season, as he's shown he can't cover right back any more, and his centre back performances haven't been too clever either.
1) he looked before he did it
2) the defence were a shambles all evening. Not Rocky's fault entirely but shockingly poor defending and communication.
So yes.
Hope Super David Stockdale doesn't make any mistakes this weekend or we're really in the brown stuff.
You must have better eyesight than mine, @Wendoverman. I cant make out what his eyes are looking at from the video I have seen.
Being legally innocent doesn't stop people from making up their own minds...
On whether a crime was committed - it really should.
On his morality - that's up to you.
Loathsome combination. Evans and Barton.
Are there many worse combos in football?
.
Checked the highlights out, and having missed the first 5mins live, wow, that howler from Allsopp.
Literally pee rolls it 8 yards straight to their man for a super easy chance. Yes he saved it, but then even the next shot can't hold it. Dreadful stuff.
Stockdale is back in at the weekend without doubt.
I can't see that Evans has looked first, but he definitely knows where his man is, and flings an arm out. The only surprise is that there's not the standard mass confrontation. Sido gets over to the ref, but it's all dealt with very swiftly and calmly - maybe so obvious and a swinging arm, rather than a dangerous elbow? Maybe.
Their goal is farcical, but with a man right in front of the keeper, who can knock it either side, you can sort of undersstand Allsopp looking so all at sea.
Surprised they didn't show the Stubati mix up, where both missed it, allowing a guy in for an easy chance, that Allsopp made a great save for.
I have to say at first I thought the red card was soft from the Beechdean, but bloody hell how blatant was that? And why did Evans do it? Goal still looked absolutely ridiculous though.
@DevC obviously my eyes like the ref's (surprising in his case!) are better because it looked a deliberate elbow to me.
OJ Simpson
I don't mind Joey...just don't lean too close for his philosophical thoughts or his accumulator tips when he's smoking a cigar
I don't agree with those saying our best formation is 433. Even when we play it effectively it's not much fun to watch, just long balls up to Bayo. Against the better teams he's marked out of it, among many of the others his knock-ons don't get close to our wide forwards, stuck in no man's land. Hence why we've relied on JJ for so many goals, even during our purple patch.
The only other formation we've utilised is a 442 with a narrow diamond which gives us no chance as soon as our opponents use the width of the midfield. Compared to that, yes, 433 is better. But goodness it's a bit of a Hobson's choice.
Why oh why can't we surprise our opponents - and delight our fans - by playing a traditional 442 using Wheeler, Freeman, Fred, Smyth as natural wide men? Giving us a chance to play to Bayo with someone tight alongside him?
And for those who say Gareth Ainsworth is now above criticism, once more I beg to differ. He assembles a great squad, he manages and motivates his players well, he's good at pr and many of the other skills required in a modern manager. But all these years in he still has a habit of picking bizarre formations; often employs overly negative tactics and regularly fails to shake things up when it's not working. None of the players are above criticism and nor is the gaffer.
We played a traditional 4-4-2 against Bristol Rovers and Tranmere (switched to a 4-2-3-1 then 4-3-3 in the former) and a 4-3-1-2/4-3-2-1 at Rotherham, so 4-3-3 and diamond 4-4-2 definitely aren't the only formations we've used - also played most of the first half at home to Peterborough in a 3-5-2.
Gareth isn't above criticism, but I think he's closer to that status than almost any other manager.
When we played against Rochdale recently, I think we had a midfield 2 then. Rochdale waltzed into acres of space.
There's a very real reason many teams don't play the traditional 4-4-2 anymore.
But like all things, it's all about the right personnel and the right formation for the right game. That's why Samuel and Bayo can look supreme in some games, and utterly bankrupt in others.
Gaz tactically adjusted on Saturday better than I can remember in quite a while - up to about the Burton game, he was getting it spot on most of the time and adapting brilliantly to the opposition - which made it extra annoying that he didn't change things before the very end last night.
Yes, we allowed many a "footballing" team to bluster around playing lovely football in their own half, then pick them off.
But then Oxford worked out we had no width, and it all fell apart from there really.
Gaz is already talking about a big window, which is very unlike him, so I wonder if we already have some deals in the mixer?
Hopefully the fear of Bayo retiring and it being a retour of Sanchez once Bates and Devine had finished, doesn't repeat itself.
It’s like the club , the team, Gareth Ainsworth and the rest of the coaching staff don’t have the self believe and confidence to truly challenge for an automatic promotion place. It feels like the club would rather be fighting a heroic battle to avoid relegation. Are the slightly embarrassed to be in the top 2 ?
Or we aren't that good, were getting by with an approach that wasn't likely to be sustainable, and other teams have come on stronger after poor starts and had greater spending power January. For a brief period in the autumn, we were one of the best teams in the league and it was impossible not to get caught up in everything, but apart from the fact it's been as dramatic as it has, our drop-off should come as no surprise.
Or, as I remember Rob Couhig saying at a Trust meeting, his target was eventually the Championship, BUT we did not currently have the support infrastructure in place.
I am not saying we are deliberately dropping points, but I would suggest that Gareth is not under undue pressure to get promotion or indeed the play offs. Indeed defeat in a play off final may be the best outcome in financial terms.
Personally I feel that we would not have the budget to improve the squad sufficiently to have a chance of competing in the Championship next season (bearing in mind the Trust have to contribute 25%) We would need to sign as a bare minimum Championship quality players to replace Allsop, Charles (due to his physical restrictions), Jacobson (his lack of pace would be exposed) Thompson, Bloomfield (due to age), Bayo (due to age), Jombati, Freeman and probably Kashket as regular first team starters.
I would be more than happy for us to finish mid table this season and see what Gareth can do with a larger playing budget and a more stable financial environment.
I appreciate that the likes of Mr Parry and others will describe me as defeatist, but I have the long term success of the club at heart rather than short term progress.
I didn't want to bring myself or the general mood down by saying it when we were flying, but there is no way this club is ready for the Championship - or as ready as a small club can ever be for that colossal jump. If it happens then we're not exactly gonna go "Nah, you're alright", but I sometimes wonder if some fans realise how huge the gulf in quality between the two divisions is. I too would be happy with mid-table and am looking forward to a summer when Gaz has not loads but at least a bit more £ to play with.
@chairboyscentral, is it really true to say that GA will have any more £ to play with next year?
As I understand it we're at the limit this season of what we can spend on wages due to the SCMP.
Not sure I see that changing next year, because in order to do so means we have to have a higher revenue. How are we going to generate that next year above what we have this year?
We seem to be have really upped our game off the field already and I'm not sure what will attract more punters in to watch if they won't come to see a team 2nd in the league.
I know it was a poor display last night from the team but only 3286(?) supporters turning out for a midweek match is also pretty poor IMHO even if it was cold.
Anyway the summer will be, I believe, a challenge to evolve the squad to be able to compete without 2 or 3 from Bayo, Blooms, Charles and JJ - all key players this year.
The major way to change the limit imposed by SCMP is to be in the Championship and this season still represents a fantastic opportunity to get there so I am hopeful that, even though it wasn't planned for yet, the whole focus of GA and the team is still on gaining promotion.
Well I'd like to go up and enjoy a season in the Championship even if we lost 90% of the games.
As long as we didn't start signing players on silly money on long term contracts, we could enjoy a season of bumper gates & vastly increased revenue while having a whale of a time playing the underdog every week.
Expectations would be low and every point we gained would be cause for celebration.
So what if we came straight back down. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
I wanted to go up more for the thrill of the success and memories of promotion itself, rather than the inevitable beatdowns next season in the basket case second tier. Though it would be fun to play the Leeds, Forest and Sheffield Wednesdays of the world week in week out, with low expectations.
I am actually serene at having 13 pressure free games. Let's see how many points we can get, and harbour hopes of sneaking in the playoffs, but let's also not forget how ridiculously this team has been punching above their weight.
I am so proud, and will never forget those couple of months at the top!
It didn't feel great when after we lost the play off final, there was talk how it was a "good" thing as it was too soon etc.
Hopefully there's none of that talk if we do drop out of the playoffs.
This season is still a superb opportunity. From playing Boltons kids day one, to having a team lower than usual in the league. To plenty of things that just seemed to go for us earlier in the season.
There's no guarantee at all that whatever we do in the summer will see us anywhere near as high next season.
Vital has it spot on as usual.
I can't really imagine being in the mindset of being concerned about going up. If you're a Wycombe fan and you can't get giddy and carried away by the prospect of getting into the championship then I'm not sure what the point is
I can understand (but don’t agree with) being wary about promotion, as we would likely have a season where we lose badly most weeks.