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Match day thread: Plymouth Argyle

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  • My line up:
    Rocky
    McCa,Tools, Warrior, Harry
    Thompson , Saunders, Gape , Williams
    Scotty, Bayo
    Which if nothing else demonstrates a lack of nicknames in midfield.

  • Not sure about Harri at left back. His relief when reverting to the right on 35 minutes against Northampton after Sido had to be substituted against Northampton was almost tangible (I’m jesting really but many a true word and all that).

    Scott Kashket said after the game on Saturday that he felt he was not ready yet to start a game.

    Unless Joe Jacobson is injured I’d start with him and swap Harri for Thompson.

  • Delete second β€œagainst Northampton”.

  • Rocky
    Jase Tools Ads JJ
    Harri Saunds Gape Freeman
    Bayo Williams

    Oh and tonight we win 2-0.

  • I really like that lineup @fromtheside.
    Can’t think why I overlooked Nickers (sorry about that) as I’ve been one of his biggest fans. Williams alongside Bayo (well, buzzing around Γ  la Kashket) sounds good, especially with Scotty coming on (not necessarily for Williams of course) on the hour or thereabouts.

  • @fromtheside That's definitely the side I'd like to see tonight (but fear I won't).

  • Anyone else going to be waiting for a couple of hours post match thanks to the rather unforgiving train times? Might try the James Street Vaults after the game if anyone fancies joining me, five minute walk from the station, near the mosque.

  • Or we could just play the same formation that largely got us here and not panic after three games? Or just trust our excellent manager to make the decision for us knowing the fitness and form of each player?

  • Come on, @DevC , where's the fun in that?

  • edited August 2018

    I still don't see McCarthy at full back. Firstly Harriman is a decent option there so don't see why he should move. Secondly McCarthy is our best centre back. Why do we need to move him out to gave slightly less good centre backs.

    It's our midfield that worries me but I am not sure we have the players in the building as yet to fix it. Saunders has to play though if he is fit

  • I'm pretty sure that when he was with us last time, McCarthy played at right back behind Harriman as RM, and they had a very good understanding (and both demonstrated a quality of football well ahead of what we were used to seeing, as I recall). We were playing 4-4-2, mind, and it would be hard to leverage that understanding in 4-3-3. I think that was the season that Harri scored some pretty good goals, and that may not have been accidental. I must say I'd be keen to see that link-up again.

  • McCarthy is perfectly comfortable at right back and played there in the Championship for Barnsley. Although I think he mostly played CB during his first spell with us, he certainly did play some games at RB behind Harriman, who spent most of the season playing right midfield and and finished joint top scorer with Garry Thompson on eight.

    I don't know if you're just Dev'ing us for sport Dev, but whilst I agree we don't need to panic, I don't think suggesting trying 442 based on seeing how we've played so far this season is exactly panicking. If our midfield three is consistently being overrun, do we keep sticking with it, trying the same thing and hoping for a different result, or do we take the fight to the opposition and be (I hate this word) 'proactive'. Of course I trust GA, but that doesn't mean I just blindly agree with everything he does.

  • It’s a case of adapting to the new division we are in @DevC and the three games I have been at I personally don’t think 433 has worked.

  • I know Harriman is a right back but I too thought he was very effective as right midfield. And as we have Sido and McCarthy cannot see why he would not be again in a 4-4-2. I cannot believe Bayo cannot play in a front two with a speedy type (Williams/Kashket/PCH) as his oppo. We need to get wider as we're getting no joy from midfield through the middle at present. Also -for me anyway - CMS OR Bayo....not both.

  • Well I am afraid I have to rely on this forum for on pitch analysis as I cant get to many games. so I have no real opinion of my own.

    So far this week I have learned that JJ, Bean, Bloomfield, Allsopp, Bayo, Thompson, Morris and Harriman (at RB) are all league two at best and that Ainsworth just chooses his mates. I dare say it will not be too long before he loses the dressing room.

    Kashket (despite hardly playing for two years), Freeman (despite never playing much) and Harriman out of position on the left or in midfield are the answers to all our problems as is good old 442 which invariably makes an appearance after a couple of poor results. I am a little disappointed that no one has yet suggested resigning Ryan Sellars who was the answer to all our problems a couple of years ago (until he actually played).

    I know we all like to believe we know best and I absolutely know that GA is far from infallible but on the whole three games in, I still think I trust his judgement more than the rest of us. Keep the faith.

  • Sorry @DevC , I'm not giving up that easily!

    I think 3-5-2 is possibly more likely than 4-4-2 but if that meant McCarthy on the right of the back 3 and Harri on the right of a five-man midfield we could still get the benefit of the understanding they established previously.

    I think the following might work:

    Allsop
    McCarthy Stewart El-Abd
    Harriman Saunders Gape Paris JJ (Tyson and Freeman possible alternates here)
    Bayo/CMS Williams/Kashket

  • @DevC everything I suggest is suggested with love. I think we have the players, but I suspect 4-3-3 has not worked in the two games I've seen so far.

  • Anyone using "Tools" for Stewart instantly puts my back up, but we move on ;)

    Looking forward to watching this, but without having a 7 hour round trip!

  • @DevC

    Think you need to trust the general consensus that 433 hasn't worked to this point. Einstein's definition of insanity is to make the same mistakes over and over again.

    It's an option we could go back to with more effective personell. Bayo definitely needs someone playing off him as he's too isolated and being manned more effectively.

    There was no harm in trying it, as it's has been successful for the best part of two seasons and we could give it a couple more games to see if we can make it work.

    In all seriousness though it's either more loans to play it or as the others have said change it up.

  • @DevC is a follower of the philosopher Bon Jovi and his seminal work, 'Keep the Faith'. I personally prefer the philosopher-economist John Maynard Keynes. When the facts change, I change my mind. What worked in League Two is not destined to work in League One just because we wish it to be so.

  • It's a bit of a shame, Dev, that you can't seem to meet with an opinion different to yours without treating it with the sort of smug contempt you've displayed above. For someone who gets upset very easily at what you refer to as 'personal attacks' from some posters, who don't half dish the disdain out yourself. You seem intelligent and I think you can see all too well the common sense in what people are saying, but you choose to pretend you don't, making out that sensible, well-argued posts are in some way akin to the kind of angry ramblings one reads on Twitter. Perhaps it's my fault for 'biting' if that's what you're after, but sometimes I can see why you get such a hard time on here.

  • I had to read back to see what @devc had said there that was so wrong @Jonny_King , expecting it to be utter goonery, for a pretty balanced poster like you to take exception (note, there's no comma between pretty and balanced and intentionally not!)

    I don't think Dev has it wrong at all, the panic stations seen 3 games in is madness, as is suggesting all sort of nonsense that we've never seen work (McCarthy in midfield), or haven't seen work for half a year (Harriman in midfield).

    And to think i was all set to steam in with some sort of "Dev is an expert despite never seeing the games" type post!

  • I take your point Malone (and for the record I think you are both balanced and pretty), but I think Dev is deliberately choosing not to differentiate between the sensible posts, by people who have seen games this season, suggesting fairly minor alterations to system/players used - and the more extreme ideas, choosing to treat it all with a contempt, which I find both arrogant and particularly staggering given his lack of first hand experience of this Wycombe side.

    To be honest, I don't really see anyone panicking on here (unless you count the usual couple of trolls) but when you're not getting results, usually that means something, somewhere, has to change and I don't doubt that we will see at least some changes from the side that faced Bristol. Suggesting playing 442 is hardly crazy-talk and as someone who has seen Freeman play, I'd argue neither is suggesting starting Freeman.

  • I think we should play Bayo, Williams, Freeman, PCH, and CMS up front, Saunders, Gape and Morris in the middle if they feel like it, McCarthy and Stewart in a two man defence and just get Rocky to just launch the ball forward. 2-3-5. And people say I know nothing.

  • It's such a shame we didn't poke one of those chances away to Blackpool, as that would have set us off on the right foot, and give confidence that we can compete.
    Now, mostly down to a poor 20mins v Doncaster, and a couple of dreadful set pieces and the ensuing chasing the game v Bristol Rovers, we suddenly look a bit at sea.

    Roll on tonight. I don't think Plymouth are that good a team, so hopefully it's a real 50-50 game and a chance to put ourselves back on track.
    It's excellent that it's available to watch (pending any IT issues!) too. Looking forward to it.

  • We shall overcome. Hopefully they will all be distracted by Gaz and Adams scrapping on the touchline and Williams will nip in and grab us the three points.

  • Be interesting to see which of Gareth and Adams get the red card first !

  • I would like another look at Bryn, despite a tentative first outing at Doncaster. I am also going to be wearing my "Free Freeman!" shirt.

  • edited August 2018

    I'd like to see:
    Rocky

    McCarthy
    El-Abd
    Stewart

    Harriman
    Gape
    Morris
    Saunders/Freeman
    JJ

    Williams
    Kashket

  • @WestLondonWanderer plenty of pace in that line-up to be sure.

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