And that kind of uncalled for insult from someone I wasn’t even engaging with just confirms what I have been saying about lack of respect. Did I insult you?
Why am I tragic, why shouldn’t my opinion count as much as yours just because you disagree with me?
@mooneyman When I lived in Walthamstow the local paper reported OAPS at cashpoints being attacked with hammers/bricks/kettles/dogs every week...I never saw it, nor knew anyone who did. Working on a local paper is dull...fetes and complaints about dog mess don't sell.
@glasshalffull said:
And that kind of uncalled for insult from someone I wasn’t even engaging with just confirms what I have been saying about lack of respect. Did I insult you?
Why am I tragic, why shouldn’t my opinion count as much as yours just because you disagree with me?
Respect is earned not given, and in some ways I do think you might have a point in that "the young" don't respect outdated views, or the people that hold them just because "they should respect their elders".
The reason you probably don't get the respect you believe you deserve is because your actions/ words don't merit it...
I went to the Euros, the Marseille game specifically.
A lot of the England fans behaviour was disorderly, drunken and downright embarrassing.
However, there wasn't any sustained attempt by any more than a handful of England to fight other supporters or the police, despite the cherry picked images of bottles being thrown by police on one or two occasions.
if that same fixture had taken place in the 80s or 90s, you could bet your house on a lot more England fans would have been looking for a lot more trouble, rather than just acting like village idiots.
@mooneyman you're missing the point you quote local rags and their reports of crime...I'm suggesting things might not always be as bad as a hack looking for a reaction would have you believe. That is all. Facts show crime as a whole is down...in the same way only 4.4% of the population is muslim, whereas some papers would have you believe you're going to be hammered to death in your bed because Sharia Law is set to take over. @LX1 twenty years since I lived there so you could be right.
@eric_plant I have to agree. I thought @glasshalffull was a serious poster until he or she started contradicting their own arguments - “countless examples of bad behaviour at England games over the years.” Hardly deteriorating behaviour. The grammatical correction was a dead giveaway. Good on you.
Some good debate generated though. I think the point about CCTV making grounds and town centres safer is a good one.
I am actually really positive about the youth of today. They are far more tolerant to others, more attuned to the work culture (rightly or wrongly) and (from my experience) much less inclined to drink to get pissed. There are exceptions (see some of our current fans) and in some of the more deprived areas of the country are more likely to become disengaged from the rest of society, with the attendant risks.
Anyone who can remember pubs boarding up their windows in town centres at lunchtime on a Saturday when a Div 1 team came to town and/or stood crammed into terraces ducking darts thrown over the fence from the other side will almost certainly think that behaviour has improved a lot in the past 30 years or so.
The argument about attitudes on and around social media are very interesting though. It has developed a culture which has exaggerated ‘outrage’ amongst other things and I’m curious how this will play out over time
Town and city centres seem much safer now than they were when I was young.
Young people more tolerant of others than they were in my day.
Young people more approachable and friendly older people than in my day (equals)
Young people more selfish than in my day (e.g. standing in seated areas , or at Wembley)
Overall those in their 20s seem a better generation than mine. Bit worried that those around 15-18 have taken on the worst of mine and the worst of the 20s generations. Hopefully they will mature better.
@Wendoverman My earlier post actually provided a link to a BBC feature on crime which for ease of reference I attach again.
I agree that reporting in local rags is not always reliable, particularly our one, but the BBC reports, whilst not infallible, are probably better researched. Your view that violent crime is down seems to be at variance the published facts.
Violent crime is up and that is a fact quoted today by a prominent Labour MP. Gun crime has increased, knife crime is up, drug related crimes have increased. Not saying it’s all to do with young people (never did say that by the way) but it’s irrefutable. And if the lack of respect shown to me by username is anything to go by, lack of respect by many users of social media is also on the increase.
Basically if you scroll down it concludes that “the long-term trend is that violence has been falling... for the last 20 years.”
This is partly based on injuries reported to hospitals which (whilst recognising that people may be more inclined to go to hospital these days) does seem a more reliable indicator than the variances in police reporting
Thanks for not answering my questions and thereby confirming my opinion of your unwarranted abuse.
I bow to your superior knowledge of the world and I’m humbled to share the same platform.
There probably is a bigger problem with a lack of respect on social media today than there was in the good ol' days, I'm not going to argue with you on that one.
Bloody hell @glasshalffull you seem very angry about this respec' thang. This is an online forum. Unless someone is doing the two fingers at the screen as they write I cannot see where anyone has shown you any more disrespect than any of us get on here. @mooneyman don't trust the state broadcaster! (joke!) I did not see your link so apologies. Depressing reading indeed, but I would still venture the streets in general are less dangerous than they have been in the past for most of us and I am a frightened middle aged person! Changes in police reporting will have had some effect, especially in sex crime stats, and I can understand the murder rate going up to an extent as young people seem intent on settling every minor dispute with a big knife. Unfortunately, I suspect the police cuts (even under the party of 'law and order' ) over the past decade will have played a part. I think government thinking is 'Low Crime? Less Police! ' rather than the idea that having enough coppers is what keeps crime down! I fear things are going to get worse over the next few years as fewer jobs, draconian cuts and desperation sets in. But at least Scott Kashket might be back in January!
"The number of incidents of CSEW violence increased through most years of the 1980s before reaching a peak in 1995 (Figure 1.2). Since 1995, the level of violent crime measured by the CSEW has shown a substantial fall (67%). Between the year ending December 1995 and the year ending March 2002 surveys, the estimated annual number of incidents of violent crime fell by 41%, from 3.8 million to 2.3 million incidents, with more gradual decreases being recorded thereafter." (Until 2016)
Comments
I wasn't pretending everything was alright. You said there were countless examples. that is nonsense and irresponsible
There have been countless examples of bad behaviour at England games over the years and it’s nonsense and irresponsible to suggest otherwise.
You'd be hilarious if you weren't so tragic glasshalfempty.
And that kind of uncalled for insult from someone I wasn’t even engaging with just confirms what I have been saying about lack of respect. Did I insult you?
Why am I tragic, why shouldn’t my opinion count as much as yours just because you disagree with me?
@mooneyman When I lived in Walthamstow the local paper reported OAPS at cashpoints being attacked with hammers/bricks/kettles/dogs every week...I never saw it, nor knew anyone who did. Working on a local paper is dull...fetes and complaints about dog mess don't sell.
@Wendoverman - Obviously if you and your friends didn't witness any crime at cashpoints then it never happened!
Things have reached boiling point in Walthamstow
shame folk can't let off steam without breaking the law
Respect is earned not given, and in some ways I do think you might have a point in that "the young" don't respect outdated views, or the people that hold them just because "they should respect their elders".
The reason you probably don't get the respect you believe you deserve is because your actions/ words don't merit it...
I went to the Euros, the Marseille game specifically.
A lot of the England fans behaviour was disorderly, drunken and downright embarrassing.
However, there wasn't any sustained attempt by any more than a handful of England to fight other supporters or the police, despite the cherry picked images of bottles being thrown by police on one or two occasions.
if that same fixture had taken place in the 80s or 90s, you could bet your house on a lot more England fans would have been looking for a lot more trouble, rather than just acting like village idiots.
@mooneyman you're missing the point you quote local rags and their reports of crime...I'm suggesting things might not always be as bad as a hack looking for a reaction would have you believe. That is all. Facts show crime as a whole is down...in the same way only 4.4% of the population is muslim, whereas some papers would have you believe you're going to be hammered to death in your bed because Sharia Law is set to take over. @LX1 twenty years since I lived there so you could be right.
@eric_plant I have to agree. I thought @glasshalffull was a serious poster until he or she started contradicting their own arguments - “countless examples of bad behaviour at England games over the years.” Hardly deteriorating behaviour. The grammatical correction was a dead giveaway. Good on you.
Some good debate generated though. I think the point about CCTV making grounds and town centres safer is a good one.
I am actually really positive about the youth of today. They are far more tolerant to others, more attuned to the work culture (rightly or wrongly) and (from my experience) much less inclined to drink to get pissed. There are exceptions (see some of our current fans) and in some of the more deprived areas of the country are more likely to become disengaged from the rest of society, with the attendant risks.
Anyone who can remember pubs boarding up their windows in town centres at lunchtime on a Saturday when a Div 1 team came to town and/or stood crammed into terraces ducking darts thrown over the fence from the other side will almost certainly think that behaviour has improved a lot in the past 30 years or so.
The argument about attitudes on and around social media are very interesting though. It has developed a culture which has exaggerated ‘outrage’ amongst other things and I’m curious how this will play out over time
Overall (huge generalisations of course)
Town and city centres seem much safer now than they were when I was young.
Young people more tolerant of others than they were in my day.
Young people more approachable and friendly older people than in my day (equals)
Young people more selfish than in my day (e.g. standing in seated areas , or at Wembley)
Overall those in their 20s seem a better generation than mine. Bit worried that those around 15-18 have taken on the worst of mine and the worst of the 20s generations. Hopefully they will mature better.
@Wendoverman My earlier post actually provided a link to a BBC feature on crime which for ease of reference I attach again.
I agree that reporting in local rags is not always reliable, particularly our one, but the BBC reports, whilst not infallible, are probably better researched. Your view that violent crime is down seems to be at variance the published facts.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40665733
@mooneyman another way to look at it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39817100
Basically if you scroll down it concludes that “the long-term trend is that violence has been falling... for the last 20 years.”
This is partly based on injuries reported to hospitals which (whilst recognising that people may be more inclined to go to hospital these days) does seem a more reliable indicator than the variances in police reporting
Thanks for not answering my questions and thereby confirming my opinion of your unwarranted abuse.
I bow to your superior knowledge of the world and I’m humbled to share the same platform.
getting a bit boring now - like I said, well done for getting so many people to take the bait but probably time to retire gracefully now
Here, here @eric_plant!
There probably is a bigger problem with a lack of respect on social media today than there was in the good ol' days, I'm not going to argue with you on that one.
I don't want to start a fresh tangent, but plenty of older people are rude, disrespectful and inappropriate on social media, not just young people.
Bloody hell @glasshalffull you seem very angry about this respec' thang. This is an online forum. Unless someone is doing the two fingers at the screen as they write I cannot see where anyone has shown you any more disrespect than any of us get on here.
@mooneyman don't trust the state broadcaster! (joke!) I did not see your link so apologies. Depressing reading indeed, but I would still venture the streets in general are less dangerous than they have been in the past for most of us and I am a frightened middle aged person! Changes in police reporting will have had some effect, especially in sex crime stats, and I can understand the murder rate going up to an extent as young people seem intent on settling every minor dispute with a big knife. Unfortunately, I suspect the police cuts (even under the party of 'law and order' ) over the past decade will have played a part. I think government thinking is 'Low Crime? Less Police! ' rather than the idea that having enough coppers is what keeps crime down! I fear things are going to get worse over the next few years as fewer jobs, draconian cuts and desperation sets in. But at least Scott Kashket might be back in January!
I refute that violent crime has increased since the 90s.
Accrington fans were heard singing 'You're just a town full of racist pyromaniacs' last night
Exactly, there's a huge difference between number of reported crimes and actual number
It has outside Tescos!
Indeed @mooneyman understand a young man was abused at the cashpoint quite recently.
Very good!!
What I do like about arguments these days is that people no longer have the attention span they used and get bored and give up
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/compendium/focusonviolentcrimeandsexualoffences/yearendingmarch2016/overviewofviolentcrimeandsexualoffences
"The number of incidents of CSEW violence increased through most years of the 1980s before reaching a peak in 1995 (Figure 1.2). Since 1995, the level of violent crime measured by the CSEW has shown a substantial fall (67%). Between the year ending December 1995 and the year ending March 2002 surveys, the estimated annual number of incidents of violent crime fell by 41%, from 3.8 million to 2.3 million incidents, with more gradual decreases being recorded thereafter." (Until 2016)