If Anis wasn’t going to sign a new contract with us, and the only way he would is by the inclusion of a £1m release clause then we’ve got £1m more than we would have otherwise (plus another half season of Anis.)
I would have offered to double his wages just to get the sell-on in there. It would be more than paid back in the future. To think of the money we paid Horgan and Kaikai to sit on the bench...
Not to mention we are setting a precedent for any future talented players to tell their agents "insist on the clause - they will fold like a cheap suit".
With hindsight we should have put Anis on a six year contract no release clause when signing him from Woodford.
But then at the time we didn't know he would be the one that blossomed and worthy of that length of contract.
Many of the others haven't blossomed. That's life.
Its a bit odd to say that the development squad concept which has just realised our record ever transfer fee has failed even if that fee is "only" £1m.
There's every chance we already doubled or more than doubled his wages in the first place though.
What are you proposing? Give him 15k-20k a week? 750-1m a year in wages? How long a deal?
How many league 1 mids go for more than 1m anyway?
Someone was trying to link Crystal Palace selling a player who had a storming season or 2 in the premier league to Manchester United for 50m to our sale of Mehmeti.
We have had the development squad for three seasons, and this is the only sale. If we have managed to pay for those three years (and bear in mind we also have to include Sam Grace's salary in the equation), then it still is not worth it, as it is a break even proposition. Even if we made a small profit, it is still not worth it, as we have shown that a massive, perhaps once in a generation talent is only worth one million, therefore any lesser talents produced will not pay for the next three years.
To me, the point of this squad is to hit a few financial home runs as well as contribute to the first team. PC even said this is the only way we can be sustainable.
Whether the development squad concept will prove to be successful remains t be seen @Shev
In 2.5 seasons, it has produced a player in Mehmeti that gave great pleasure to supporters, earned points on the field and broke our record transfer sale. In Forino, we have another prospect who may do almost as well. There may be others about to emerge - who knows?
Frankly if you were expecting the concept to do better than that in its first 2.5 years, I think the problem here may have been more with your expectations than with the reality of how it has fared.
I think success should be based on what the club said the vision is, which (to my memory, I could be wrong) is to make the club sustainable in L1 and also be able to push for promotion (I am sure I heard talk of being a yoyo club somewhere, but would have to look it up). I suppose we won't know that for a few seasons - PC did seem to think the Mehmeti sale is securing that vision for now, so maybe they did a better job at negotiating than we think.
I think part of the issue here must be that some on here don't rate Mehmeti as highly as I do, which is fine. I know when we were projecting fee up front there was a wide range of ratings, with some rating him as less than a million (I had him 2-3 million) so I am sure some of it comes down to that. The more you rated him, the more you may feel a little annoyed if we did not get value, etc.
IF there was a defined fee release clause it makes it irrelevant what you think he was worth in January this year. We do know however that he sold for more than any other player in our history including those who have had proven top level careers.
if you believe the development squad is going to deliver multi million profits each season, I fear you are likely to be disappointed.
Kind of a circular argument there @DevC - of course reality means what ideally should have happened can no longer happen, but we still tend to discuss these things, right? The point I am making is that we did not in reality get value for the crown jewels, so I am not sure why so many are throwing their caps in the air for joy after doffing them to Bristol City, whether you feel it was unavoidable or not.
As a hypothetical example, if I had a very valuable painting, but someone held a gun to my head and forced me to part with it for pennies on the pound, one may see that as unavoidable, but certainly would not be smiling at a sales job well done. The "gun to the head" part is to tie it to the argument that we had no negotiating position at all, which I still don't know to be the case.
Thanks for the recommendation @Malone - I'll have to check it out. Such a sad end to a great career that could have been so much greater. Of all the "what-might-have-beens" in football, promising careers blighted by injuries are up there as the most agonizing.
Awww spoilsport. I was enjoying this. In reality far too many unknowns for anyone to conjure up a solid argument one way or another, but interesting to see just how much gut feeling can influence someone’s point of view.
I guess I could have just summarized by saying "I feel like Anis was worth much more than we got for him," but what fun would that have been? A bit of hyperbole never hurt anyone!
@Shev. Surely the reference, made in relation to the development squad, was that it would be self financing and thus sustainable. I don't think either Rob or Pete actually said player sales alone would make us sustainable in league 1. For that we have to grow the fan base and increase the football club revenues - potentially by being in the championship.
Here is what PC said in the deadline day interview:
"One of the only ways we can achieve sustainability at Wycombe...it would be nice to get 9000 fans in every time. It's not going to happen, so the only way to do it is through player trading income. When you look at the clubs who have risen through the ladder, it's because they have built a system that brings young players in, helps them get better, and then creates a financial reward, so that you can cover the losses that are going to occur in League One football."
He then goes on to say "Selling players like this can get us closer to having a break even year."
Hopefully the tedium of going to the video to transcribe it is justified by indicating why I am passionate about getting value for our playing assets.
Every supporter and more importantly every key employee of the club is keen to get the maximum possible transfer revenue for every player we sell @Shev . I don’t argue with that desire.
You though seem to have jumped , with no evidence whatsoever, to an assumption that in Mehmeti’s case we didn’t due to incompetence and /or disinterest by those in authority (the club management) betraying the interests of the masses (the fans)
I am afraid that is an increasing prevalent theme across the internet and exploited by the media and mostly populist politicians to seek power by foistering mistrust fear and feelings of betrayal created by those who promise to protect the masses from the illusion they have created.
sadly the tactics created by Bannon on your side of the pond are now all to prevalent on this side too and as you may have guessed I fecking hate it.
I would have loved to have got a higher fee for Mehmeti than whatever was achieved - as no doubt you would. I see no evidence to suggest that was possible in the circumstances the club faced. My view is that it is likely we did the best job anyone could reasonably expect.
Comments
If Anis wasn’t going to sign a new contract with us, and the only way he would is by the inclusion of a £1m release clause then we’ve got £1m more than we would have otherwise (plus another half season of Anis.)
I would have offered to double his wages just to get the sell-on in there. It would be more than paid back in the future. To think of the money we paid Horgan and Kaikai to sit on the bench...
I agree - but again, why have a development team if we have such poor negotiating powers?
Not to mention we are setting a precedent for any future talented players to tell their agents "insist on the clause - they will fold like a cheap suit".
With hindsight we should have put Anis on a six year contract no release clause when signing him from Woodford.
But then at the time we didn't know he would be the one that blossomed and worthy of that length of contract.
Many of the others haven't blossomed. That's life.
Its a bit odd to say that the development squad concept which has just realised our record ever transfer fee has failed even if that fee is "only" £1m.
That £1m will already have paid for the development team, won’t it?
There's every chance we already doubled or more than doubled his wages in the first place though.
What are you proposing? Give him 15k-20k a week? 750-1m a year in wages? How long a deal?
How many league 1 mids go for more than 1m anyway?
Someone was trying to link Crystal Palace selling a player who had a storming season or 2 in the premier league to Manchester United for 50m to our sale of Mehmeti.
The two scenarios are absolutely beyond compare.
I am a little surprised so many are in the "be happy we got anything" camp! Maybe we can beg Forino's agent for an extra fiver when he goes?
Of course, we still don't know the actual facts - maybe we will belatedly find out all this is academic when he is sold on.
Or maybe @thecatwwfc knows if there was a sell on?
We have had the development squad for three seasons, and this is the only sale. If we have managed to pay for those three years (and bear in mind we also have to include Sam Grace's salary in the equation), then it still is not worth it, as it is a break even proposition. Even if we made a small profit, it is still not worth it, as we have shown that a massive, perhaps once in a generation talent is only worth one million, therefore any lesser talents produced will not pay for the next three years.
To me, the point of this squad is to hit a few financial home runs as well as contribute to the first team. PC even said this is the only way we can be sustainable.
The system is there both to breed players for the first team, as well as sell some on.
So far Mehmeti is the major success in both ways, with Forino success on the first team side.
After that, you could argue about the success, depending on how you rate De Barr, Wakeley and Pattenden so far.
It's hard to judge what a good success rate is. 2 players making it to the first team and playing 30 games a year? 2 players being sold a year?
Whether the development squad concept will prove to be successful remains t be seen @Shev
In 2.5 seasons, it has produced a player in Mehmeti that gave great pleasure to supporters, earned points on the field and broke our record transfer sale. In Forino, we have another prospect who may do almost as well. There may be others about to emerge - who knows?
Frankly if you were expecting the concept to do better than that in its first 2.5 years, I think the problem here may have been more with your expectations than with the reality of how it has fared.
Well...2 years of great performances and a million quid is hardly nothing.
No reason at all why a release clause couldn't include extras btw
I think success should be based on what the club said the vision is, which (to my memory, I could be wrong) is to make the club sustainable in L1 and also be able to push for promotion (I am sure I heard talk of being a yoyo club somewhere, but would have to look it up). I suppose we won't know that for a few seasons - PC did seem to think the Mehmeti sale is securing that vision for now, so maybe they did a better job at negotiating than we think.
I think part of the issue here must be that some on here don't rate Mehmeti as highly as I do, which is fine. I know when we were projecting fee up front there was a wide range of ratings, with some rating him as less than a million (I had him 2-3 million) so I am sure some of it comes down to that. The more you rated him, the more you may feel a little annoyed if we did not get value, etc.
IF there was a defined fee release clause it makes it irrelevant what you think he was worth in January this year. We do know however that he sold for more than any other player in our history including those who have had proven top level careers.
if you believe the development squad is going to deliver multi million profits each season, I fear you are likely to be disappointed.
An observation re how easy Anis appears to have stepped up.
Best of luck to the lad, if we get more out of his trajectory it’s a bonus.
Kind of a circular argument there @DevC - of course reality means what ideally should have happened can no longer happen, but we still tend to discuss these things, right? The point I am making is that we did not in reality get value for the crown jewels, so I am not sure why so many are throwing their caps in the air for joy after doffing them to Bristol City, whether you feel it was unavoidable or not.
As a hypothetical example, if I had a very valuable painting, but someone held a gun to my head and forced me to part with it for pennies on the pound, one may see that as unavoidable, but certainly would not be smiling at a sales job well done. The "gun to the head" part is to tie it to the argument that we had no negotiating position at all, which I still don't know to be the case.
Honestly no idea what you are talking about now @Shev . Suggest we leave it there
The reported release clause is true, i can assure of that. So there's no negotiation possible there.
It's whether there was also a sell on fee in the contract. It's probably best left alone in case that's a no!
In the new FourFourTwo
I expect he'll go to PL end of next season, the way things are developing.
If someone can find the Mawson interview with Ben Foster, it's quite sad.
Failed a medical in the summer.
Was only training once a week, and just managing the games.
Felt wrong, and had a 2 week break, but still didn't feel right.
Saw the experts who basically said retire now, and don't even try to run again when you leave the room! (Can still cycle at least).
Or rest up and maybe manage 3-4 games late season, but run the risk of affecting simply walking in the future.
Such a cruel end, especially after the false illusion that 22 game run must have created.
Thanks for the recommendation @Malone - I'll have to check it out. Such a sad end to a great career that could have been so much greater. Of all the "what-might-have-beens" in football, promising careers blighted by injuries are up there as the most agonizing.
Here's the Alfie interview...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSBPPXScdMM
Hakan Hayrettin appointed manager of Dulwich Hamlet.
Awww spoilsport. I was enjoying this. In reality far too many unknowns for anyone to conjure up a solid argument one way or another, but interesting to see just how much gut feeling can influence someone’s point of view.
Football, hey.
I guess I could have just summarized by saying "I feel like Anis was worth much more than we got for him," but what fun would that have been? A bit of hyperbole never hurt anyone!
@Shev. Surely the reference, made in relation to the development squad, was that it would be self financing and thus sustainable. I don't think either Rob or Pete actually said player sales alone would make us sustainable in league 1. For that we have to grow the fan base and increase the football club revenues - potentially by being in the championship.
Here is what PC said in the deadline day interview:
"One of the only ways we can achieve sustainability at Wycombe...it would be nice to get 9000 fans in every time. It's not going to happen, so the only way to do it is through player trading income. When you look at the clubs who have risen through the ladder, it's because they have built a system that brings young players in, helps them get better, and then creates a financial reward, so that you can cover the losses that are going to occur in League One football."
He then goes on to say "Selling players like this can get us closer to having a break even year."
Hopefully the tedium of going to the video to transcribe it is justified by indicating why I am passionate about getting value for our playing assets.
Every supporter and more importantly every key employee of the club is keen to get the maximum possible transfer revenue for every player we sell @Shev . I don’t argue with that desire.
You though seem to have jumped , with no evidence whatsoever, to an assumption that in Mehmeti’s case we didn’t due to incompetence and /or disinterest by those in authority (the club management) betraying the interests of the masses (the fans)
I am afraid that is an increasing prevalent theme across the internet and exploited by the media and mostly populist politicians to seek power by foistering mistrust fear and feelings of betrayal created by those who promise to protect the masses from the illusion they have created.
sadly the tactics created by Bannon on your side of the pond are now all to prevalent on this side too and as you may have guessed I fecking hate it.
I would have loved to have got a higher fee for Mehmeti than whatever was achieved - as no doubt you would. I see no evidence to suggest that was possible in the circumstances the club faced. My view is that it is likely we did the best job anyone could reasonably expect.