Idk, but he does talk about an extra 5-6m theoretically being available - which surely isn't attainable no matter what improvements we make? Does having a top-notch ground make that much of a difference to floating supporters if the football isn't entertaining/successful? I'm not convinced. And they still haven't even made some basic improvements to the toilets.
Modern grounds have the ability to take more money per person as well as host more. I think the logical aim for this work is that revenue per person increases if you can get to a tea bar or a real bar more easily and have more shops and hospitality areas you'll sell more. As a smaller club we also need to take more money from away fans, if we are ever able to go up again there are clubs there that will want to bring 5,6000+ with them and facilities down that way are limited.
The road stuff allows a bit of an increase in gates but also stops people turning up once and deciding not to bother again, or deciding it's all too much hassle if they come from a distance or need to be somewhere before or after.
I think he has one eye on a sale at some point, not immediately but as he says he's ageing and Pete can't live here, fairly sure he wants it to be worth more at whatever point he does exit and also to be in able to get back what he's put in, and he can't do that if he doesn't own any of the bits he's paying to improve.
Fairly sure it's going to happen as it sounds like it's already agreed, and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out given that the trust weren't seemingly able to meet obligations and stem losses without outside investment.
What is delusional about that statement? We are currently 18th in the league table of average attendances in our division. Surely you understand the correlation between higher crowds/greater income and the ability to acquire better players.
Sure sounded a lot like that to me. Anyway, I just don't think this 'build it and they will come' approach will work with Wycombe. We're always going to be limited by our small catchment and proximity to many bigger clubs.
If he can't understand the fanbase difference between Wednesday, Ipswich and Derby over against Wycombe he is absolutely deluded. MK Dons are in a large city with a 30,000 plus stadium and don't get anywhere near 20,000. Huge fanbases are established by decades of success, including usually international success.
That is not what he said. He said we are competing with five clubs (more than that in my opinion) who are able to generate a lot more income than we can, a statement of fact.
My first ever WW match was the FA Cup 1st Round. Wycombe v Slough Town, November 1970 in front of 7,000 fans at Loakes Park. 52 years later we lose at the same stage in front of just 2,319 fans to a League Two side.
I think the problems aren’t just “a temporary blip” but can be clearly split into 2 parts. Firstly, off the pitch. Today’s match was officially downgraded as soon as the announcement was made to close the Frank Adams Upper. How many people decided not to go because they couldn’t sit in their usual seat? Very worrying though was the lack of children at Adams Park. The Family Stand had very few indeed. I noticed this v Peterborough and also Cambridge (a midweek game but in the half-term holidays). Today was the FA Cup for goodness sake. Why not kids for £1 after the success of the numbers at the Morecambe game?
Decisions made by the club have also helped to alienate some of our older (& longest-attending fans). Many of those kicked out of the Woodlands Bar two years ago simply haven’t returned (sadly priced out). Some relocated to the Honours Lounge for one season but we’re then kicked out of there to facilitate a bigger boardroom.
All this talk of increasing crowds leaves me with a wry smile on my face - they should stop losing fans before trying to find new ones! The official rhetoric seems to assume that better facilities (& inevitably much more costly) will attract more fans. All the club seem interested in at the moment is people who are high-spenders. Loyalty and length of supporting doesn’t seem to have any place at Adams Park today - unless it comes with a wedge. It’s all about increased revenue streams whether it alienates our core fanbase or not.
On the pitch we have been under-performing lately as many have pointed out. Personally, I have been infuriated by our approach to cup competitions in particular. We have never played our first-choice side & hoped to win with a weakened side. Where did we get? Losing Stockdale, Stewart, Akinfenwa, Bloomfield & Harrison in the summer takes a lot of replacing. We’ve recently resorted to some dreadful stuff to watch. I sincerely believe we have some very good players who need sorting out. I don’t want to see GA leave but in the light of the loss of so many key influencers I’d like to see a top coach come in & develop an improved use of the players, especially counter-attacking away from home.
My gut reaction is the heart is starting to be drained out of the club, which makes me very sad. Results on the pitch will ebb & flow (but need dealing with). Off the pitch worries me more. The club needs to realise that die-hard supporters are different to casual spectators & need respect & accomodation. If you remove the foundations of your house it will never remain standing when the next storm comes along. WW should not be “just about the numbers”.
I agree with everything you're saying @A_Worboys, but re:ticket prices, aren't there some odd rules about not offering extreme discounts for cup games because so much of the money goes into the central pot.
Some interesting points raised by Rob. And these are largely the points of an outsider with no preconceptions about football in this country. That’s both a good and bad thing.
My perspective is skewed by Steve Hayes. And I think Rob spells it out that he is only here until the next guy and that will probably be when the next guy offers some cash. So get the books in order, make the club profitable, polish up the old gal and flog her on. Welcome to the world of private ownership.
He clearly didn't just that for the hell of it. He appears to consider that a change in the ownership structure of the club will enable us to compete more with those bigger clubs.
That suggests to me that either he has a lot more money that he is willing to invest, but he doesn't wish to do so without having more than 75% ownership, or he thinks that he can do something that will significantly raise our income levels.
Is there something else that could happen that I just haven't thought of? Or was the 'preview of Wednesday's proposals' completely unlinked to the statement about other bigger clubs?
The most passionate bloke at the game today was that young ball boy Stan - watching him was more enjoyable than any of the guff on the pitch. He’s got more love for Wycombe than half the turnips out there in that first half. It was piss poor fare for 70 minutes.
Mehmeti Mellor and Tjay were the only ones trying something different come the end. That flat back 3 with ropey wingbacks is just not working. Vokes up top on his own just looks miserable feeding off scraps with no-one to help him and his flick ons just getting lapped up by eager defenders. What a shower this crop are!
Access to the ground has never entered my thought process when deciding to go to a game. A new road won't make people think differently. In fact, in the the current climate, my guess is that it will probably have an undesired pushback by some.
Fantastic post but my guess is that ticket prices for cup games (split gate receipts) must have some guidelines? Like when we played Man City away and they reduced their ticket prices resulting in less for us.....
Late in, but a couple of points based on this thread.
Gate receipts are split in various percentages to both clubs and the FA is my understanding so not really likely to be cutting prices too much.
In any case, in shitty weather, a run of awful home performances, a cost of living crisis and families making annual 5th November firework display plans I’m not remotely surprised if the family stand and other areas were low in numbers.
If your kids play grassroots football, then their day would have been an early start to get wet playing football on muddy pitches after this weeks rain. Go to WWFC and get wet in the family stand. Go out in the evening and get pissed on at the fireworks.
On the big club thing, Rob is possibly still not quite getting it is my perception. Someone said above it’s a mixture of things which I’d agree with.
Sheff Wed, Derby and Ipswich were referenced - it’s more than just attendances right now that makes them big clubs. In 1993 (I think) Wednesday made 2 Wembley cup finals in the same year and had full England internationals in their team. Derby had a hell of a team in Cloughie and were cheated out of their European Cup run. Ipswich have won a European trophy with a legendary England manager. We were a semi pro football club at that same time.
MK get more fans than Oldham Athletic I would guess, have a far bigger stadium and are in a higher league. Yet I would say Oldham are the bigger club based on their history.
Comments
Idk, but he does talk about an extra 5-6m theoretically being available - which surely isn't attainable no matter what improvements we make? Does having a top-notch ground make that much of a difference to floating supporters if the football isn't entertaining/successful? I'm not convinced. And they still haven't even made some basic improvements to the toilets.
Has anyone said where this road will link to? Is it Toweridge Lane, or Bullocks Farm Lane? Or Both?
Both of those are quite narrow aren't they? So would the plan be to make those roads one way in the hour after games?
Sorry display today. The wingbacks were anonymous.
Mccarthy lost the guy for the first and went awol for the second. He runs up and down can't cross and can't use his left foot.
Obita has lost all confidence going forward.
They both leave the back 3 exposed as they are missing in action
How much of its success was down to Bayo?
He was a central attraction to watching us.
I'm sorry, I always picture Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh when Trevor posts.
I had a look at the summary of the character and found
"He is generally characterized as a pessimistic, gloomy, depressed, anhedonic, old grey stuffed donkey"
It probably helped a lot. Although the whole “we were the only team that replied in spainish” had alot of legs when the relationship first came about.
Are you suggesting that having lovely toilets and facilities isn't your top reason for going somewhere? There has to be ...entertainment too?!
Education has definitely got you chasing dreams. 😋
He talked about bridging the gap not closing it.
Modern grounds have the ability to take more money per person as well as host more. I think the logical aim for this work is that revenue per person increases if you can get to a tea bar or a real bar more easily and have more shops and hospitality areas you'll sell more. As a smaller club we also need to take more money from away fans, if we are ever able to go up again there are clubs there that will want to bring 5,6000+ with them and facilities down that way are limited.
The road stuff allows a bit of an increase in gates but also stops people turning up once and deciding not to bother again, or deciding it's all too much hassle if they come from a distance or need to be somewhere before or after.
I think he has one eye on a sale at some point, not immediately but as he says he's ageing and Pete can't live here, fairly sure he wants it to be worth more at whatever point he does exit and also to be in able to get back what he's put in, and he can't do that if he doesn't own any of the bits he's paying to improve.
Fairly sure it's going to happen as it sounds like it's already agreed, and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out given that the trust weren't seemingly able to meet obligations and stem losses without outside investment.
What is delusional about that statement? We are currently 18th in the league table of average attendances in our division. Surely you understand the correlation between higher crowds/greater income and the ability to acquire better players.
The delusional part is this idea that there's an extra 5-6m we could generate to strengthen the squad. Fanciful to say the least.
Talk about Pete can't live or here, or can't get a visa etc.
Does anyone know much about this? Can you only get a one year visa, and his simply ran out? Or is it more he can't move the family here?
He didn't say that.
Sure sounded a lot like that to me. Anyway, I just don't think this 'build it and they will come' approach will work with Wycombe. We're always going to be limited by our small catchment and proximity to many bigger clubs.
If he can't understand the fanbase difference between Wednesday, Ipswich and Derby over against Wycombe he is absolutely deluded. MK Dons are in a large city with a 30,000 plus stadium and don't get anywhere near 20,000. Huge fanbases are established by decades of success, including usually international success.
Where did MK's 20k come from? They didn't have decades of success?
That is not what he said. He said we are competing with five clubs (more than that in my opinion) who are able to generate a lot more income than we can, a statement of fact.
My first ever WW match was the FA Cup 1st Round. Wycombe v Slough Town, November 1970 in front of 7,000 fans at Loakes Park. 52 years later we lose at the same stage in front of just 2,319 fans to a League Two side.
I think the problems aren’t just “a temporary blip” but can be clearly split into 2 parts. Firstly, off the pitch. Today’s match was officially downgraded as soon as the announcement was made to close the Frank Adams Upper. How many people decided not to go because they couldn’t sit in their usual seat? Very worrying though was the lack of children at Adams Park. The Family Stand had very few indeed. I noticed this v Peterborough and also Cambridge (a midweek game but in the half-term holidays). Today was the FA Cup for goodness sake. Why not kids for £1 after the success of the numbers at the Morecambe game?
Decisions made by the club have also helped to alienate some of our older (& longest-attending fans). Many of those kicked out of the Woodlands Bar two years ago simply haven’t returned (sadly priced out). Some relocated to the Honours Lounge for one season but we’re then kicked out of there to facilitate a bigger boardroom.
All this talk of increasing crowds leaves me with a wry smile on my face - they should stop losing fans before trying to find new ones! The official rhetoric seems to assume that better facilities (& inevitably much more costly) will attract more fans. All the club seem interested in at the moment is people who are high-spenders. Loyalty and length of supporting doesn’t seem to have any place at Adams Park today - unless it comes with a wedge. It’s all about increased revenue streams whether it alienates our core fanbase or not.
On the pitch we have been under-performing lately as many have pointed out. Personally, I have been infuriated by our approach to cup competitions in particular. We have never played our first-choice side & hoped to win with a weakened side. Where did we get? Losing Stockdale, Stewart, Akinfenwa, Bloomfield & Harrison in the summer takes a lot of replacing. We’ve recently resorted to some dreadful stuff to watch. I sincerely believe we have some very good players who need sorting out. I don’t want to see GA leave but in the light of the loss of so many key influencers I’d like to see a top coach come in & develop an improved use of the players, especially counter-attacking away from home.
My gut reaction is the heart is starting to be drained out of the club, which makes me very sad. Results on the pitch will ebb & flow (but need dealing with). Off the pitch worries me more. The club needs to realise that die-hard supporters are different to casual spectators & need respect & accomodation. If you remove the foundations of your house it will never remain standing when the next storm comes along. WW should not be “just about the numbers”.
Spot on - "big club" is a mixture of a few things, and the stadium, though of course big itself, is more of a symptom than a cause.
Also, we might want to consider beating massive clubs like Morecambe and Walsall at home before having hallucinations about our size.
I agree with everything you're saying @A_Worboys, but re:ticket prices, aren't there some odd rules about not offering extreme discounts for cup games because so much of the money goes into the central pot.
I believe you can do it if it’s agreed between the clubs. I’m sure Keith Allen could confirm if he reads this!
Some interesting points raised by Rob. And these are largely the points of an outsider with no preconceptions about football in this country. That’s both a good and bad thing.
My perspective is skewed by Steve Hayes. And I think Rob spells it out that he is only here until the next guy and that will probably be when the next guy offers some cash. So get the books in order, make the club profitable, polish up the old gal and flog her on. Welcome to the world of private ownership.
He clearly didn't just that for the hell of it. He appears to consider that a change in the ownership structure of the club will enable us to compete more with those bigger clubs.
That suggests to me that either he has a lot more money that he is willing to invest, but he doesn't wish to do so without having more than 75% ownership, or he thinks that he can do something that will significantly raise our income levels.
Is there something else that could happen that I just haven't thought of? Or was the 'preview of Wednesday's proposals' completely unlinked to the statement about other bigger clubs?
Here bloody here !!
The most passionate bloke at the game today was that young ball boy Stan - watching him was more enjoyable than any of the guff on the pitch. He’s got more love for Wycombe than half the turnips out there in that first half. It was piss poor fare for 70 minutes.
Mehmeti Mellor and Tjay were the only ones trying something different come the end. That flat back 3 with ropey wingbacks is just not working. Vokes up top on his own just looks miserable feeding off scraps with no-one to help him and his flick ons just getting lapped up by eager defenders. What a shower this crop are!
This is a great post.
Access to the ground has never entered my thought process when deciding to go to a game. A new road won't make people think differently. In fact, in the the current climate, my guess is that it will probably have an undesired pushback by some.
Fantastic post but my guess is that ticket prices for cup games (split gate receipts) must have some guidelines? Like when we played Man City away and they reduced their ticket prices resulting in less for us.....
Just watched the highlights, what on earth was mawson doing for the 2nd goal?!
Late in, but a couple of points based on this thread.
Gate receipts are split in various percentages to both clubs and the FA is my understanding so not really likely to be cutting prices too much.
In any case, in shitty weather, a run of awful home performances, a cost of living crisis and families making annual 5th November firework display plans I’m not remotely surprised if the family stand and other areas were low in numbers.
If your kids play grassroots football, then their day would have been an early start to get wet playing football on muddy pitches after this weeks rain. Go to WWFC and get wet in the family stand. Go out in the evening and get pissed on at the fireworks.
On the big club thing, Rob is possibly still not quite getting it is my perception. Someone said above it’s a mixture of things which I’d agree with.
Sheff Wed, Derby and Ipswich were referenced - it’s more than just attendances right now that makes them big clubs. In 1993 (I think) Wednesday made 2 Wembley cup finals in the same year and had full England internationals in their team. Derby had a hell of a team in Cloughie and were cheated out of their European Cup run. Ipswich have won a European trophy with a legendary England manager. We were a semi pro football club at that same time.
MK get more fans than Oldham Athletic I would guess, have a far bigger stadium and are in a higher league. Yet I would say Oldham are the bigger club based on their history.