@Mr67 we played in it away at Sheffield Wednesday at the end of November, and gained a commendable draw. This is a fact, compared to your "I don't know how we would do if...". My subjective view is that I don't particularly like the kit.
Waving an imaginary card feels like some kind of Victorian era extravagance anyway. Perhaps in the future, pub shuffles will give way to a bout of imaginary card waving.
It's always interesting that people react with fury at player's doing the little imaginary card gesture, yet don't seem to mind players screaming at the ref and running towards him. When it's guaranteed they're just doing a lyrical version of demandng a card.
One the one hand you have "2 footed tackle", which always sounds dodgy ground from the start.
But then you watch it, and he's tackled through the ball, and their man comes into the equation afterwards almost, goes down like he's been
properly 2 footed, and as a quick watch it looks far more brutal than it actually was.
Dim to challenge like that on the half way line though, so little danger, and it certainly cost us a big rousing finish, plus obviously the unknown of having to break up a really effective midfield combo.
Needs a better camera angle doesn't it. Doesn't look great on first viewing, but on closer inspection it looks like he came in from the side and possibly didn't make any contact with the Gills player and more importantly (in terms of the red card) didn't pose any danger.
I'd think on the evidence from that 1 camera it's unlikely to be overturned. A different angle may show, what many suspect happened which was that Wing made a 2 footed, but clean tackle that posed no risk to the opposition player who took advantage of the aggressive nature of the tackle to feign injury and get Wing sent off.
To be honest, given that Wing gets there to the ball well ahead of their player he really didn’t need to dive in with such ferocity.
Clearly there is a overreaction to the tackle but Wing was still a bit foolish in my view. It happens sometimes and I think he’s been absolutely excellent overall. A very good combination with Scowen and someone I hope we keep next season.
What no-one has mentioned (or at least I haven't seen) is that seconds beforehand Lee, to me at least, seems to have gone over the top of the ball on Wheeler.
I think the force of Wing's subsequent lunge (which is a red, regardless of what you think of that law) was provoked by the first one and the red mist came down a bit and it was retaliation. I could be wrong, see what you think:
I was at that Forest FA Cup final and sat right in line with the second Gazza challenge on Gary Charles, disgusting and he should have been sent off. No card was shown and he left the field on a stretcher. Gazza was looking crazy that day as the first challenge on Garry Parker demonstrated.
Had someone brandished an actual red card after Gazza's first tackle Forest might have had their second FA Cup and Gazza would not have seriously injured himself with the second!
@eric_plant said:
What no-one has mentioned (or at least I haven't seen) is that seconds beforehand Lee, to me at least, seems to have gone over the top of the ball on Wheeler.
I think the force of Wing's subsequent lunge (which is a red, regardless of what you think of that law) was provoked by the first one and the red mist came down a bit and it was retaliation. I could be wrong, see what you think:
I think it's red by the letter of the law, could easily have done some damage if it had connected with the player, and the point is to stop players making those tackles.
But at the same time if you could prove there was no contact and the guy roles over like that then he should get a lengthy ban too
I think they gave up on retrospective bans for simulation after about the third one (the first was for a dive v us, Carlisle player I think in the 3-3 up there in 2017). From memory, Bamford and Niasse the only others to get one.
@StrongestTeam said:
I think it's red by the letter of the law, could easily have done some damage if it had connected with the player, and the point is to stop players making those tackles.
But at the same time if you could prove there was no contact and the guy roles over like that then he should get a lengthy ban too
Should they just say, you go in with 2 feet, it's an auto red?
But then like @LX1 said, is it a red if the keeper does it, with no-one within 10 yards?
@StrongestTeam said:
I think it's red by the letter of the law, could easily have done some damage if it had connected with the player, and the point is to stop players making those tackles.
But at the same time if you could prove there was no contact and the guy roles over like that then he should get a lengthy ban too
Should they just say, you go in with 2 feet, it's an auto red?
But then like @LX1 said, is it a red if the keeper does it, with no-one within 10 yards?
Two footing someone off the ball without any pretence or claim to have gone for the ball is already a red. Jumping about like a loon on your own in your own penalty area is only penalised by everyone thinking you are barmy.
@StrongestTeam said:
I think it's red by the letter of the law, could easily have done some damage if it had connected with the player, and the point is to stop players making those tackles.
But at the same time if you could prove there was no contact and the guy roles over like that then he should get a lengthy ban too
Should they just say, you go in with 2 feet, it's an auto red?
But then like @LX1 said, is it a red if the keeper does it, with no-one within 10 yards?
Two footing someone off the ball without any pretence or claim to have gone for the ball is already a red. Jumping about like a loon on your own in your own penalty area is only penalised by everyone thinking you are barmy.
The Wing incident wasn't even marginally like either of your examples though?
@StrongestTeam said:
I think it's red by the letter of the law, could easily have done some damage if it had connected with the player, and the point is to stop players making those tackles.
But at the same time if you could prove there was no contact and the guy roles over like that then he should get a lengthy ban too
Should they just say, you go in with 2 feet, it's an auto red?
But then like @LX1 said, is it a red if the keeper does it, with no-one within 10 yards?
Two footing someone off the ball without any pretence or claim to have gone for the ball is already a red. Jumping about like a loon on your own in your own penalty area is only penalised by everyone thinking you are barmy.
The Wing incident wasn't even marginally like either of your examples though?
It was excessive force which is a red, there was absolutely no need to go 2 footed as I think he still would have won the ball first using just his right foot.
Wing reaches the ball well ahead of the opposing player. His left next to the ball studs down, right leg comes through to clear the ball. No two footed challenge, no excessive force, no contact with the opponent. No foul, no card of any colour.
The referee produced the red card so quickly, it seemed like he'd already got it ready to send someone off. He certainly didn't consider the decision.
Why make a challenge for the ball in midfield? Both teams pushing for a winning goal, break up a developing attack and build one of your own. If players don't defend in midfield people complain that the midfield is ineffective and overrun.
Wing reaches the ball well ahead of the opposing player. His left next to the ball studs down, right leg comes through to clear the ball. No two footed challenge, no excessive force, no contact with the opponent. No foul, no card of any colour.
The referee produced the red card so quickly, it seemed like he'd already got it ready to send someone off. He certainly didn't consider the decision.
Why make a challenge for the ball in midfield? Both teams pushing for a winning goal, break up a developing attack and build one of your own. If players don't defend in midfield people complain that the midfield is ineffective and overrun.
That's true. But I reckon that, coupled with the fact that he has actually learned the laws of the game and the fact that he does it every week, make it more likely that he is right than fans who for the most part haven't learned the laws of the game and are naturally biased towards their team
Comments
To be fair most of us were waving imaginary cards at Koeman.
@Mr67 we played in it away at Sheffield Wednesday at the end of November, and gained a commendable draw. This is a fact, compared to your "I don't know how we would do if...". My subjective view is that I don't particularly like the kit.
Waving an imaginary card feels like some kind of Victorian era extravagance anyway. Perhaps in the future, pub shuffles will give way to a bout of imaginary card waving.
It's always interesting that people react with fury at player's doing the little imaginary card gesture, yet don't seem to mind players screaming at the ref and running towards him. When it's guaranteed they're just doing a lyrical version of demandng a card.
The ref was right in top of the Wing tackle, can’t see us challenging the decision.
One the one hand you have "2 footed tackle", which always sounds dodgy ground from the start.
But then you watch it, and he's tackled through the ball, and their man comes into the equation afterwards almost, goes down like he's been
properly 2 footed, and as a quick watch it looks far more brutal than it actually was.
Dim to challenge like that on the half way line though, so little danger, and it certainly cost us a big rousing finish, plus obviously the unknown of having to break up a really effective midfield combo.
I’m not convinced Wing made any contact with the player at all. He was basically stationary by the time the Gills player arrived at the scene.
Needs a better camera angle doesn't it. Doesn't look great on first viewing, but on closer inspection it looks like he came in from the side and possibly didn't make any contact with the Gills player and more importantly (in terms of the red card) didn't pose any danger.
I'd think on the evidence from that 1 camera it's unlikely to be overturned. A different angle may show, what many suspect happened which was that Wing made a 2 footed, but clean tackle that posed no risk to the opposition player who took advantage of the aggressive nature of the tackle to feign injury and get Wing sent off.
The Gills player certainly has some explaining to do about his reaction.
Player concerned is Olly Lee, son of one time Wycombe player Rob Lee.
To be honest, given that Wing gets there to the ball well ahead of their player he really didn’t need to dive in with such ferocity.
Clearly there is a overreaction to the tackle but Wing was still a bit foolish in my view. It happens sometimes and I think he’s been absolutely excellent overall. A very good combination with Scowen and someone I hope we keep next season.
What no-one has mentioned (or at least I haven't seen) is that seconds beforehand Lee, to me at least, seems to have gone over the top of the ball on Wheeler.
I think the force of Wing's subsequent lunge (which is a red, regardless of what you think of that law) was provoked by the first one and the red mist came down a bit and it was retaliation. I could be wrong, see what you think:
That's the key. Textbook case of excessive force.
I was at that Forest FA Cup final and sat right in line with the second Gazza challenge on Gary Charles, disgusting and he should have been sent off. No card was shown and he left the field on a stretcher. Gazza was looking crazy that day as the first challenge on Garry Parker demonstrated.
Had someone brandished an actual red card after Gazza's first tackle Forest might have had their second FA Cup and Gazza would not have seriously injured himself with the second!
I saw it the same. But yes, no chance of the red being overturned unfortunately. I doubt we'll even appeal.
"That is a disgusting foul".
Hardly. Not sure it was even a foul!
Just goes to show how biased most opposition media and fans are compared to the far more considered opinions expressed on here and our new TV channel.
I think it's red by the letter of the law, could easily have done some damage if it had connected with the player, and the point is to stop players making those tackles.
But at the same time if you could prove there was no contact and the guy roles over like that then he should get a lengthy ban too
I think they gave up on retrospective bans for simulation after about the third one (the first was for a dive v us, Carlisle player I think in the 3-3 up there in 2017). From memory, Bamford and Niasse the only others to get one.
Should they just say, you go in with 2 feet, it's an auto red?
But then like @LX1 said, is it a red if the keeper does it, with no-one within 10 yards?
Two footing someone off the ball without any pretence or claim to have gone for the ball is already a red. Jumping about like a loon on your own in your own penalty area is only penalised by everyone thinking you are barmy.
The Wing incident wasn't even marginally like either of your examples though?
No it wasn't, I gave my opinion on that earlier
It was excessive force which is a red, there was absolutely no need to go 2 footed as I think he still would have won the ball first using just his right foot.
Wing reaches the ball well ahead of the opposing player. His left next to the ball studs down, right leg comes through to clear the ball. No two footed challenge, no excessive force, no contact with the opponent. No foul, no card of any colour.
The referee produced the red card so quickly, it seemed like he'd already got it ready to send someone off. He certainly didn't consider the decision.
Why make a challenge for the ball in midfield? Both teams pushing for a winning goal, break up a developing attack and build one of your own. If players don't defend in midfield people complain that the midfield is ineffective and overrun.
Well I’m quite sure we will appeal it then.
The ref could not have had a better view.
That doesn’t necessarily mean that he made the right decision though.
That's true. But I reckon that, coupled with the fact that he has actually learned the laws of the game and the fact that he does it every week, make it more likely that he is right than fans who for the most part haven't learned the laws of the game and are naturally biased towards their team