I think it would give some a kick up the backside and make them think, 'Hmm, maybe I should get the vaccine'. Much more to gain than lose from such a step imo.
@ReturnToSenda said:
I think it would give some a kick up the backside and make them think, 'Hmm, maybe I should get the vaccine'. Much more to gain than lose from such a step imo.
This is one of the critical issues. My view is the opposite - that it would give almost nobody the nudge they need to get jabbed. And possibly (probably) just entrench opposition to vaccination by fuelling the siege mentality that not getting jabbed is to somehow resist experts/state/government control.
I think we should be intolerant of anti-vax views and arguments because they are incredibly dangerous and stupid. I think we should be tolerant of people who have fallen victim to them.
Indeed. My sister's friends' daughter has just come out of her coma to be told her parents have both died. No idea why all three believed the internet bullshine.
Most terrorism is islam related - so all muslims are anti our way of life and should be treated with suspicion and probably banned from city centres.
Lots of asylum seekers are muslim and they are all invaders and deserve to be interned or push backed and left to drown in the channel
All anti-vaxxers are selfish and stupid and out to kill us so they should be taught a lesson and persuaded to toe the line and made to wear a yellow star so we can abuse them if they dare to venture into the street.
Its amazing what a bit of fear and a bit of media hype can make people believe and say.
Some people who have chosen not to be vaccinated are just arrogant selfish bastards. Some have chosen not to be vaccinated through honestly and deeply held personal beliefs and opinions. While we may feel that their opinions are misguided, we should all respect the latter categories right to genuinely hold those views.
Now I accept that it may be necessary to curtail some freedoms from people who choose that path. That should always be a last resort and proportional however. So I would have voted with a heavy heart for the covid passport *(with lateral test alternative) to enter nightclubs etc and I certainly supported without a moments hesitation masks in supermarkets but I wouldn't support a covid passport to get a train to work for example.
This is a football forum. I think I will leave it there.
@prufrock_91 said:
People are free to make their own decisions, but have to accept the consequences of that decision. I am free to say what I like to someone, but if it's offensive the consequence is that I'll get thumped, or if it's hateful I'll face the law, that's the deal.
It's the same thing here. People are free to remain unvaxxed, but the consequence is they cannot be around large groups of people and will lose their ability to do things they enjoy that require that... like going to watch a football match.
I find that a strange definition of 'freedom' but to be fair, it's one that seems to be in the ascendency.
So you want to be free to make a decision that impacts you and others, and have no judgement passed on you for it?
Most terrorism is islam related - so all muslims are anti our way of life and should be treated with suspicion and probably banned from city centres.
Lots of asylum seekers are muslim and they are all invaders and deserve to be interned or push backed and left to drown in the channel
All anti-vaxxers are selfish and stupid and out to kill us so they should be taught a lesson and persuaded to toe the line and made to wear a yellow star so we can abuse them if they dare to venture into the street.
Its amazing what a bit of fear and a bit of media hype can make people believe and say.
Some people who have chosen not to be vaccinated are just arrogant selfish bastards. Some have chosen not to be vaccinated through honestly and deeply held personal beliefs and opinions. While we may feel that their opinions are misguided, we should all respect the latter categories right to genuinely hold those views.
Now I accept that it may be necessary to curtail some freedoms from people who choose that path. That should always be a last resort and proportional however. So I would have voted with a heavy heart for the covid passport *(with lateral test alternative) to enter nightclubs etc and I certainly supported without a moments hesitation masks in supermarkets but I wouldn't support a covid passport to get a train to work for example.
This is a football forum. I think I will leave it there.
@DevC said:
Most terrorism is islam related - so all muslims are anti our way of life and should be treated with suspicion and probably banned from city centres.
Lots of asylum seekers are muslim and they are all invaders and deserve to be interned or push backed and left to drown in the channel
All anti-vaxxers are selfish and stupid and out to kill us so they should be taught a lesson and persuaded to toe the line and made to wear a yellow star so we can abuse them if they dare to venture into the street.
@prufrock_91 said:
People are free to make their own decisions, but have to accept the consequences of that decision. I am free to say what I like to someone, but if it's offensive the consequence is that I'll get thumped, or if it's hateful I'll face the law, that's the deal.
It's the same thing here. People are free to remain unvaxxed, but the consequence is they cannot be around large groups of people and will lose their ability to do things they enjoy that require that... like going to watch a football match.
I find that a strange definition of 'freedom' but to be fair, it's one that seems to be in the ascendency.
So you want to be free to make a decision that impacts you and others, and have no judgement passed on you for it?
Strange defiiniton of freedom to me.
I should clarify that it's the first bit I'm questioning - the bit that ends in 'thumped'. I'm yet to form an opinion on vaccine passports.
I would suggest those examples cited by @DevC are more internet populist extreme views and possibly one or two low brow papers rather than those propagated on South Today. Having said that I've not seen The Guardian demanding yellow stars for anti-vaxxers as yet.
This is a football forum. I think I will leave it there.
Probably wise, @DevC as, without greater clarity about what I assume was intended as devil’s advocacy based on the kind of outrageous points of view you could imagine being expressed in the gutter press, rather than, as some Gasroomers may have assumed, expressions of your own points of view.
I don’t see why non-football topics shouldn’t be vented on here, particularly when they have such a direct bearing on arrangements affecting the immediate future of the game we love.
Please add to first paragraph “...this could become an irritatingly convoluted exchange of views, initially at least, based on misunderstandings.” I’d lost the flow of my argument by the time I got to “....points of view.” !
I see that the ‘top civil servant’ appointed to investigate the Downing Street parties, is guilty of holding a lockdown party within his own department. What a shambles this government are!!!!
@Blue_since_1990 said:
I see that the ‘top civil servant’ appointed to investigate the Downing Street parties, is guilty of holding a lockdown party within his own department. What a shambles this government are!!!!
17957 souls in North Shropshire agree wholeheartedly with your assessment! Surely the Tory party have a death wish if they don't topple their clown of a leader very soon.
I saw leadership contenders being quoted as Liz Truss, Priti Patel and Matt Hancock. What a shower. I thought Brexit and incompetence was going to do for one or two...but looks like we have a long parliamentary term ahead if they've got to get through all the pretend Thatchers, bullies and liars before we get a boring vaguely competent public servant in charge.
Wow - Liz Truss, Priti Patel and Matt Hancock, what a thought that is. Can’t imagine those three having a brain cell between them. The Conservatives are in a real mess but the problem is that neither Labour or the Lib Dems have a strong leader to challenge them.
Back to football and Covid - is there a conversation to be had about unvaccinated supporters not being allowed to attend a match, but an unvaccinated player being allowed to attend a match? Or is that beginning to tread on employment law / rights a little bit?
@username123 said:
Back to football and Covid - is there a conversation to be had about unvaccinated supporters not being allowed to attend a match, but an unvaccinated player being allowed to attend a match? Or is that beginning to tread on employment law / rights a little bit?
That's already been mentioned on here somewhere - opens up an interesting argument although kind of irrelevant while unvaccinated supporters can still attend!
@username123 said:
Back to football and Covid - is there a conversation to be had about unvaccinated supporters not being allowed to attend a match, but an unvaccinated player being allowed to attend a match? Or is that beginning to tread on employment law / rights a little bit?
That's already been mentioned on here somewhere - opens up an interesting argument although kind of irrelevant while unvaccinated supporters can still attend!
@ReturnToSenda yeah I just read it on the other Covid thread. I’m falling behind now on the rules! I’m not quite sure why certain capacity stadiums are effected - surely that’s not such an issue, and really all stadiums should have capacity reduced to a percentage. I mean, I could sit in the stand at Marlow today and catch something from the person next to me in theory. But being more spread out helps. I think next step will be reduction in capacity by a percentage everywhere myself, and then last resort behind closed doors of spread still continues. I think I’m not as optimistic as some of I’m honest!!
@username123 said:
Back to football and Covid - is there a conversation to be had about unvaccinated supporters not being allowed to attend a match, but an unvaccinated player being allowed to attend a match? Or is that beginning to tread on employment law / rights a little bit?
That's already been mentioned on here somewhere - opens up an interesting argument although kind of irrelevant while unvaccinated supporters can still attend!
@ReturnToSenda yeah I just read it on the other Covid thread. I’m falling behind now on the rules! I’m not quite sure why certain capacity stadiums are effected - surely that’s not such an issue, and really all stadiums should have capacity reduced to a percentage. I mean, I could sit in the stand at Marlow today and catch something from the person next to me in theory. But being more spread out helps. I think next step will be reduction in capacity by a percentage everywhere myself, and then last resort behind closed doors of spread still continues. I think I’m not as optimistic as some of I’m honest!!
Oh I definitely think we'll be back to reduced capacity at best come the New Year, if not sooner.
Was listening to radio 5 last night. One of the pundits said he was wrestling with whether his 12 year old should have the vaccine. If I recall correctly this was after he'd been arguing that all players should be vaccinated.
Most players are not daft and their continuing health and fitness is vital for their careers. I would guess that most of them take much more care about what they put into their bodies than the average football fan. So if the pros and cons of getting the vaccine (with hard data not anecdotal stories - which the anti-vaxers love) are honestly and clearly set out then presumably it should be a no brainer for them to have the jabs.
I'm not aware that health experts have actually ever done this (I'm sure I've missed it so I'd be grateful for a link).
Trying to put myself in their shoes if I was in a younger age group and knew of dozens of people who had had Covid without significant short or longer term ill effects without such information I might also feel a bit loathe to get the jab.
Particularly with the new variant and the way that this untrustworthy government and some news organisations have used the (initially) comparatively high vaccine rates in party politics.
Trying to put myself in their shoes if I was in a younger age group and knew of dozens of people who had had Covid without significant short or longer term ill effects without such information I might also feel a bit loathe to get the jab.
Particularly with the new variant and the way that this untrustworthy government and some news organisations have used the (initially) comparatively high vaccine rates in party politics.
Putting myself in their shoes it’s a roll of the dice. Don’t get jabbed, get a mild dose and don’t infect loved ones or vulnerable friends so what. Don’t get jabbed and get long Covid, infect loved one and vulnerable friends and it’s a different set of circumstances.
Comments
I think it would give some a kick up the backside and make them think, 'Hmm, maybe I should get the vaccine'. Much more to gain than lose from such a step imo.
This is one of the critical issues. My view is the opposite - that it would give almost nobody the nudge they need to get jabbed. And possibly (probably) just entrench opposition to vaccination by fuelling the siege mentality that not getting jabbed is to somehow resist experts/state/government control.
I think we should be intolerant of anti-vax views and arguments because they are incredibly dangerous and stupid. I think we should be tolerant of people who have fallen victim to them.
Indeed. My sister's friends' daughter has just come out of her coma to be told her parents have both died. No idea why all three believed the internet bullshine.
Most terrorism is islam related - so all muslims are anti our way of life and should be treated with suspicion and probably banned from city centres.
Lots of asylum seekers are muslim and they are all invaders and deserve to be interned or push backed and left to drown in the channel
All anti-vaxxers are selfish and stupid and out to kill us so they should be taught a lesson and persuaded to toe the line and made to wear a yellow star so we can abuse them if they dare to venture into the street.
Its amazing what a bit of fear and a bit of media hype can make people believe and say.
Some people who have chosen not to be vaccinated are just arrogant selfish bastards. Some have chosen not to be vaccinated through honestly and deeply held personal beliefs and opinions. While we may feel that their opinions are misguided, we should all respect the latter categories right to genuinely hold those views.
Now I accept that it may be necessary to curtail some freedoms from people who choose that path. That should always be a last resort and proportional however. So I would have voted with a heavy heart for the covid passport *(with lateral test alternative) to enter nightclubs etc and I certainly supported without a moments hesitation masks in supermarkets but I wouldn't support a covid passport to get a train to work for example.
This is a football forum. I think I will leave it there.
Fucking hell.
So you want to be free to make a decision that impacts you and others, and have no judgement passed on you for it?
Strange defiiniton of freedom to me.> @DevC said:
what on earth did I just read?
What's the next step up from playing devil's advocate?
Jesus wept. As bad as the time he, Alan Partridge-style, imagined a suicide bomber detonating a vest walking down Hillbottom Rd
It's not easy writing something that badly. The Express would be proud.
For anyone pretending not to realise that
were examples of
and not what I believe, seriously behave.....
I should clarify that it's the first bit I'm questioning - the bit that ends in 'thumped'. I'm yet to form an opinion on vaccine passports.
Dev with perhaps the most idiotic way ever of trying to make his point.
Looking like he'd turned from tedious "take the opposite view to everyone" troll, to raging Britain First maniac
I would suggest those examples cited by @DevC are more internet populist extreme views and possibly one or two low brow papers rather than those propagated on South Today. Having said that I've not seen The Guardian demanding yellow stars for anti-vaxxers as yet.
Probably wise, @DevC as, without greater clarity about what I assume was intended as devil’s advocacy based on the kind of outrageous points of view you could imagine being expressed in the gutter press, rather than, as some Gasroomers may have assumed, expressions of your own points of view.
I don’t see why non-football topics shouldn’t be vented on here, particularly when they have such a direct bearing on arrangements affecting the immediate future of the game we love.
It’s classic Dev. Lengthy post with all manner of bizarre and controversial claims, designed to cause a stir and nothing else.
And then he ends it with ‘this is a football forum, I think I’ll leave it there’.
Peak pomposity. Let’s pray that he really does leave it there (although I doubt that’ll happen).
Please add to first paragraph “...this could become an irritatingly convoluted exchange of views, initially at least, based on misunderstandings.” I’d lost the flow of my argument by the time I got to “....points of view.” !
I see that the ‘top civil servant’ appointed to investigate the Downing Street parties, is guilty of holding a lockdown party within his own department. What a shambles this government are!!!!
17957 souls in North Shropshire agree wholeheartedly with your assessment! Surely the Tory party have a death wish if they don't topple their clown of a leader very soon.
I saw leadership contenders being quoted as Liz Truss, Priti Patel and Matt Hancock. What a shower. I thought Brexit and incompetence was going to do for one or two...but looks like we have a long parliamentary term ahead if they've got to get through all the pretend Thatchers, bullies and liars before we get a boring vaguely competent public servant in charge.
Wow - Liz Truss, Priti Patel and Matt Hancock, what a thought that is. Can’t imagine those three having a brain cell between them. The Conservatives are in a real mess but the problem is that neither Labour or the Lib Dems have a strong leader to challenge them.
You know the country is well and truly f**cked when it turns out that Boris really IS the best candidate on offer for the job of PM.
DOFL
He's really not!
Back to football and Covid - is there a conversation to be had about unvaccinated supporters not being allowed to attend a match, but an unvaccinated player being allowed to attend a match? Or is that beginning to tread on employment law / rights a little bit?
That's already been mentioned on here somewhere - opens up an interesting argument although kind of irrelevant while unvaccinated supporters can still attend!
@ReturnToSenda yeah I just read it on the other Covid thread. I’m falling behind now on the rules! I’m not quite sure why certain capacity stadiums are effected - surely that’s not such an issue, and really all stadiums should have capacity reduced to a percentage. I mean, I could sit in the stand at Marlow today and catch something from the person next to me in theory. But being more spread out helps. I think next step will be reduction in capacity by a percentage everywhere myself, and then last resort behind closed doors of spread still continues. I think I’m not as optimistic as some of I’m honest!!
Oh I definitely think we'll be back to reduced capacity at best come the New Year, if not sooner.
Was listening to radio 5 last night. One of the pundits said he was wrestling with whether his 12 year old should have the vaccine. If I recall correctly this was after he'd been arguing that all players should be vaccinated.
Most players are not daft and their continuing health and fitness is vital for their careers. I would guess that most of them take much more care about what they put into their bodies than the average football fan. So if the pros and cons of getting the vaccine (with hard data not anecdotal stories - which the anti-vaxers love) are honestly and clearly set out then presumably it should be a no brainer for them to have the jabs.
I'm not aware that health experts have actually ever done this (I'm sure I've missed it so I'd be grateful for a link).
Trying to put myself in their shoes if I was in a younger age group and knew of dozens of people who had had Covid without significant short or longer term ill effects without such information I might also feel a bit loathe to get the jab.
Particularly with the new variant and the way that this untrustworthy government and some news organisations have used the (initially) comparatively high vaccine rates in party politics.
I understand professional cyclists have been demanding as many vaccines as they can get into their system...them all being asthmatics like??
Putting myself in their shoes it’s a roll of the dice. Don’t get jabbed, get a mild dose and don’t infect loved ones or vulnerable friends so what. Don’t get jabbed and get long Covid, infect loved one and vulnerable friends and it’s a different set of circumstances.