So do England's defensive performances against Czech Rep and Croatia look better on the basis of what those teams have done against Holland and Spain? Or does it show that going for it is the big thing? No idea but it's not helping the nerves for tomorrow either way
I was not even shocked. France had not looked that great, or (especially) that bothered in any of their games. Classic case of full belly syndrome (which I just made up).
Honestly, I am going to draw a lot of immediate conclusions as to how the game is going to go based on how many defensive midfielders England start with.
I've said it before but it's worth repeating. Without a shadow of a doubt the greatest game of football I have ever seen is Wimbledon v Wycombe, FA Cup 5th round replay.
If I could go back in time to one match, not knowing what happened and what the result was, it would be that night every time.
Sit down and watch that game removed from from the emotion and the occasion and it is by any standards a poor game of football with very little quality
I have to say, I don't really understand the way England fans seem to see England. I remember Saint Martin being a pundit for what proved to be Sven's last game as manager and they turned to Martin for some analysis (after we'd lost the inevitable penalty shoot out to Portugal in the World Cup QF), clearly expecting him to stick the boot in about playing style, penalty technique or private-life shenanigans. Instead, he said, in typically lucid fashion something like, "By any historical standard, the manager's been a success" and went on to talk about reasonable expectation.
Now we have a manager who has won games at a rate to compare with any of his predecessors bar Allardyce. He has transformed the culture around the squad (no more whining, internal rivalries or shit about players' partners) so that they are much more likeable than some of the fans who "support" them or the media who write about them. And he has has brought on young players who can adapt to different systems, retain possession and control games - in contrast to the agonies of matches where we went behind and couldn't get the ball for long enough to get back into it. Oh - and he's statesmanlike to a point where it embarrasses the national Government.
And what? He's boring. He plays the wrong formation. There's not enough forward passes. He doesn't pick Grealish/Sancho/Freeman.
It just feels to me, at least for those of us old enough to remember the stirring campaigns of '72, '74, '76, '78, '84, '94 and '08, like we should appreciate what a Golden Age this is.
And yes, I'll still be of that view after tonight's defeat on penalties (nil-nil AET) and hoping he gets a ten-year contract.
I have to say, I don't really understand the way England fans seem to see England. I remember Saint Martin being a pundit for what proved to be Sven's last game as manager and they turned to Martin for some analysis (after we'd lost the inevitable penalty shoot out to Portugal in the World Cup QF), clearly expecting him to stick the boot in about playing style, penalty technique or private-life shenanigans. Instead, he said, in typically lucid fashion something like, "By any historical standard, the manager's been a success" and went on to talk about reasonable expectation.
Now we have a manager who has won games at a rate to compare with any of his predecessors bar Allardyce. He has transformed the culture around the squad (no more whining, internal rivalries or shit about players' partners) so that they are much more likeable than some of the fans who "support" them or the media who write about them. And he has has brought on young players who can adapt to different systems, retain possession and control games - in contrast to the agonies of matches where we went behind and couldn't get the ball for long enough to get back into it. Oh - and he's statesmanlike to a point where it embarrasses the national Government.
And what? He's boring. He plays the wrong formation. There's not enough forward passes. He doesn't pick Grealish/Sancho/Freeman.
It just feels to me, at least for those of us old enough to remember the stirring campaigns of '72, '74, '76, '78, '84, '94 and '08, like we should appreciate what a Golden Age this is.
And yes, I'll still be of that view after tonight's defeat on penalties (nil-nil AET) and hoping he gets a ten-year contract.
Sure that'll wind a few up but makes a lot of sense. France, Holland and to some extent Spain have shown how you can get hit if you don't play well defensively, we've done just enough to get through the group, a scrappy win tonight would be very welcome. Of course if we go out, or go out without scoring he'll get hammered for not being positive enough. Will be interesting to see how he's able to respond if needed to whatever happens.
England haven't won a Euros knockout game in 90 minutes since 1968, our first appearance (and that was a two-legged QF and the third place play-off). What a day this would be to end that.
I think some posters see the word Gareth and put the boot in as a knee jerk reaction. I was disappointed with the Scotland game but we won the group unbeaten and are up against one of the 'struggling' big teams. Great opportunity. The team is no longer built around a tabloid wunderkind and the manager isn't likely to be up and down like the PM's trousers or get filmed taking bungs. Good times.
The thing with England is that a lot of "fans" and media don't actually care if, or even want, England to win. It is fair enough (Scottish/Irish allegiances or whatever) but there is so much utter drivel after every match. The polar opinions always make the most noise. I'm happy enough with our performances so far but tonight's match is the biggest test since Russia. We won't be awful if we lose nor amazing if we win.
I think the sense of underachievement comes from the fact we are the only WC winner to have done nothing else of consequence. Winning the WC puts you in a rarified pantheon, and every other member has collected other major trophies (usually a lot of trophies). It is strange to be a member of an elite country club, but drive a Skoda into the valet.
That all being said, if there was ever a "through the looking glass" moment for England to beat Germany at the Euros, it is Euro 2020 being played in 2021. The bizarre nature of this tournament actually gives me more hope than anything else!
3-4-3 is the right system, although Mount/Foden/Grealish instead of Trippier would have allowed us to revert to four on the fly - and you worry about the lack of a clear link between the midfield and forward lines. Kane to come deep with Sterling and Saka running beyond presumably.
Looking at the personnel, though, that could so easily end up as 5-2-3 - and then you end up with the same problem as v Czech Republic, with the ball getting 'stuck' in midfield as we transition. I hoped Henderson might come in for this one as he's such and excellent tempo setter, among other things.
Think this gets our big game players on the pitch from a defensive point of view e.g. Trippier, Walker, Stones and Maguire. Did not want Trippier at left back in a 4.
Would be good if we had a left sided winger rather than left back, in this system would have preferred Chilwell over Shaw but not much between them. Fred could have done a job in this system...
Philips and Rice will provide good stability when we have a back 3.
Saka deserves his place after the last match and we've got some game changers on the bench.
Comments
Anymore of that and you’ll get some of this
So do England's defensive performances against Czech Rep and Croatia look better on the basis of what those teams have done against Holland and Spain? Or does it show that going for it is the big thing? No idea but it's not helping the nerves for tomorrow either way
This Spain-Croatia game isn't too shoddy, is it.
Can we finally do the annoying MBappe crying meme for MBappe himself?
Only one side left better than England. This is a real opportunity.
Great to see the French go out. They are so cocky just like their tiresome President.
What a day! Making up in advance for the boredom coming our way tomorrow evening.
Which one team is that.. Germany, Italy, Spain or Belgium ?
I do agree though, great chance if we get through tomorrow
Awful stuff
I was not even shocked. France had not looked that great, or (especially) that bothered in any of their games. Classic case of full belly syndrome (which I just made up).
I mean... Are you expecting anything else?
Honestly, I am going to draw a lot of immediate conclusions as to how the game is going to go based on how many defensive midfielders England start with.
Yeah, I'm expecting an emotional rollercoaster that I'll remember for years.
I suspect we watch football in very different ways, which is fine
I've said it before but it's worth repeating. Without a shadow of a doubt the greatest game of football I have ever seen is Wimbledon v Wycombe, FA Cup 5th round replay.
If I could go back in time to one match, not knowing what happened and what the result was, it would be that night every time.
Sit down and watch that game removed from from the emotion and the occasion and it is by any standards a poor game of football with very little quality
Belgium, but I suppose Italy too.
@eric_plant Stirring stuff.
I have to say, I don't really understand the way England fans seem to see England. I remember Saint Martin being a pundit for what proved to be Sven's last game as manager and they turned to Martin for some analysis (after we'd lost the inevitable penalty shoot out to Portugal in the World Cup QF), clearly expecting him to stick the boot in about playing style, penalty technique or private-life shenanigans. Instead, he said, in typically lucid fashion something like, "By any historical standard, the manager's been a success" and went on to talk about reasonable expectation.
Now we have a manager who has won games at a rate to compare with any of his predecessors bar Allardyce. He has transformed the culture around the squad (no more whining, internal rivalries or shit about players' partners) so that they are much more likeable than some of the fans who "support" them or the media who write about them. And he has has brought on young players who can adapt to different systems, retain possession and control games - in contrast to the agonies of matches where we went behind and couldn't get the ball for long enough to get back into it. Oh - and he's statesmanlike to a point where it embarrasses the national Government.
And what? He's boring. He plays the wrong formation. There's not enough forward passes. He doesn't pick Grealish/Sancho/Freeman.
It just feels to me, at least for those of us old enough to remember the stirring campaigns of '72, '74, '76, '78, '84, '94 and '08, like we should appreciate what a Golden Age this is.
And yes, I'll still be of that view after tonight's defeat on penalties (nil-nil AET) and hoping he gets a ten-year contract.
POTT
Sure that'll wind a few up but makes a lot of sense. France, Holland and to some extent Spain have shown how you can get hit if you don't play well defensively, we've done just enough to get through the group, a scrappy win tonight would be very welcome. Of course if we go out, or go out without scoring he'll get hammered for not being positive enough. Will be interesting to see how he's able to respond if needed to whatever happens.
Very well said @our_frank
England haven't won a Euros knockout game in 90 minutes since 1968, our first appearance (and that was a two-legged QF and the third place play-off). What a day this would be to end that.
Come on Eng ger land!!!
Just win baby!!!
I think some posters see the word Gareth and put the boot in as a knee jerk reaction. I was disappointed with the Scotland game but we won the group unbeaten and are up against one of the 'struggling' big teams. Great opportunity. The team is no longer built around a tabloid wunderkind and the manager isn't likely to be up and down like the PM's trousers or get filmed taking bungs. Good times.
The thing with England is that a lot of "fans" and media don't actually care if, or even want, England to win. It is fair enough (Scottish/Irish allegiances or whatever) but there is so much utter drivel after every match. The polar opinions always make the most noise. I'm happy enough with our performances so far but tonight's match is the biggest test since Russia. We won't be awful if we lose nor amazing if we win.
I think the sense of underachievement comes from the fact we are the only WC winner to have done nothing else of consequence. Winning the WC puts you in a rarified pantheon, and every other member has collected other major trophies (usually a lot of trophies). It is strange to be a member of an elite country club, but drive a Skoda into the valet.
That all being said, if there was ever a "through the looking glass" moment for England to beat Germany at the Euros, it is Euro 2020 being played in 2021. The bizarre nature of this tournament actually gives me more hope than anything else!
No like-for-like Kane replacement on the bench ?
Two defensive midfielders it is. Winning by playing not to lose usually works out so well.
(and yes, I'd love to eat my words later).
3-4-3 is the right system, although Mount/Foden/Grealish instead of Trippier would have allowed us to revert to four on the fly - and you worry about the lack of a clear link between the midfield and forward lines. Kane to come deep with Sterling and Saka running beyond presumably.
Looking at the personnel, though, that could so easily end up as 5-2-3 - and then you end up with the same problem as v Czech Republic, with the ball getting 'stuck' in midfield as we transition. I hoped Henderson might come in for this one as he's such and excellent tempo setter, among other things.
Looks good to me. Solid.
Think this gets our big game players on the pitch from a defensive point of view e.g. Trippier, Walker, Stones and Maguire. Did not want Trippier at left back in a 4.
Would be good if we had a left sided winger rather than left back, in this system would have preferred Chilwell over Shaw but not much between them. Fred could have done a job in this system...
Philips and Rice will provide good stability when we have a back 3.
Saka deserves his place after the last match and we've got some game changers on the bench.
60 minutes to kick-off, come on England!
So conservative. The answer to the question "how many of Mount, Foden and Grealish can we get in the same team?" appears to be "zero".