Putting Derby out of business though doesn't help all those creditors on this occasion @drcongo. Surely it is better if those creditors get say a third of the money rather than sweet FA.
However the general problem needs to be addressed ASAP. HMRC for a start should be required to take recovery action as soon as a club is 3 months in arrears so that these massive sums do not accrue. As soon as ANY creditor gets a court judgement, the EFL should immediately implement a transfer embargo.
In all transfers the total fee should be paid up front (with no subsequent additions based on a players/clubs performance) and not spread over years. There should be a 10% levy imposed by the EFL on all transfer fees which can be used to pay off certain creditors such as the ambulance service etc. if a club goes under.
As someone mentioned on this thread, any club going into administration should be immediately relegated two divisions even if it means going into the National League. Likewise, if a club breaches FFP, they should be automatically relegated instead of deducted points. The accounts of all clubs that achieve promotion on the field should be urgently checked by an INDEPENDENT auditor appointed by the EFL, and if proved to have breached the FFP, their promotion cancelled, particularly when it is promotion to the Premier League.
There are obviously a lot of other rules that could be brought in, but those I have mentioned would I believe lead to a much even playing field. The big problem however is that the EFL are not fit for purpose.
@eric_plant said:
Another point to make is that it is being framed by a lot of fans as "Derby cheated and cost us a place in the Championship" which seems reasonable but is actually speculative.
@eric_plant said:
What we can say with certainty is that had the points deduction been applied to last season then we would have stayed in the Championship so it's that which has cost Wycombe, and the action taken by Derby to delay that judgement.
So, their cheating by forcing the delayed action didn't cost us a place in the Championship, but their cheating by forcing the delayed action did cost us a place in the Championship.
No, what they did to allow them to overspend on their squad did not necessarily cost us a place in the Championship as we do not know how many point they would have gained had they not done so.
Delaying submitting their accounts, and therefore pushing their points deduction onto this season rather than last season did (cost us a place in the championship).
Perhaps my earlier post didn't make clear what I was meaning to say.
I think your second paragraph (1.47) may be incomplete, @eric_plant. [I did the same recently as a result of a lengthy time gap between drafting and posting but I’m not sure that applies here.]
The Derby fans are beyond deluded. They're on about counter-sueing us, Boro, the EFL and anyone else now and raising funds to do it. No campaign to raise funds to get their ground back or something that would help the club.
Some are accusing their administrators of being part of the grand scheme against them.
@micra said:
I think your second paragraph (1.47) may be incomplete, @eric_plant. [I did the same recently as a result of a lengthy time gap between drafting and posting but I’m not sure that applies here.]
@Username said:
The Derby fans are beyond deluded. They're on about counter-sueing us, Boro, the EFL and anyone else now and raising funds to do it. No campaign to raise funds to get their ground back or something that would help the club.
Some are accusing their administrators of being part of the grand scheme against them.
Says it all that the EFL statement yesterday included the section 'Does the EFL have a vendetta against Derby County?'
@our_frank Compare it to the Middlesbrough one and it appears they were quite selective about the information they put in the special Wycombe + Middlesbrough section.
@micra would probably like that re-written as "were" cheating, but cheating is the key here
Are you sure? When referring to Derby in connection with the EFL rules, surely they are a corporate body therefore a single entity in which case "was" is appropriate. I am probably wrong but no doubt @micra will confirm one way or the other!
Comments
Putting Derby out of business though doesn't help all those creditors on this occasion @drcongo. Surely it is better if those creditors get say a third of the money rather than sweet FA.
However the general problem needs to be addressed ASAP. HMRC for a start should be required to take recovery action as soon as a club is 3 months in arrears so that these massive sums do not accrue. As soon as ANY creditor gets a court judgement, the EFL should immediately implement a transfer embargo.
In all transfers the total fee should be paid up front (with no subsequent additions based on a players/clubs performance) and not spread over years. There should be a 10% levy imposed by the EFL on all transfer fees which can be used to pay off certain creditors such as the ambulance service etc. if a club goes under.
As someone mentioned on this thread, any club going into administration should be immediately relegated two divisions even if it means going into the National League. Likewise, if a club breaches FFP, they should be automatically relegated instead of deducted points. The accounts of all clubs that achieve promotion on the field should be urgently checked by an INDEPENDENT auditor appointed by the EFL, and if proved to have breached the FFP, their promotion cancelled, particularly when it is promotion to the Premier League.
There are obviously a lot of other rules that could be brought in, but those I have mentioned would I believe lead to a much even playing field. The big problem however is that the EFL are not fit for purpose.
@mooneyman said: "The big problem however is that the EFL are not fit for purpose."
I think this is really the crux of the issue. Derby should never have been allowed to get this far in debt.
Which is why football really needs a completely independent regulator.
So, their cheating by forcing the delayed action didn't cost us a place in the Championship, but their cheating by forcing the delayed action did cost us a place in the Championship.
Glad we cleared that up.
No, what they did to allow them to overspend on their squad did not necessarily cost us a place in the Championship as we do not know how many point they would have gained had they not done so.
Delaying submitting their accounts, and therefore pushing their points deduction onto this season rather than last season did (cost us a place in the championship).
Perhaps my earlier post didn't make clear what I was meaning to say.
I think your second paragraph (1.47) may be incomplete, @eric_plant. [I did the same recently as a result of a lengthy time gap between drafting and posting but I’m not sure that applies here.]
……definitely did cost us a place {in the Championship}?
The Derby fans are beyond deluded. They're on about counter-sueing us, Boro, the EFL and anyone else now and raising funds to do it. No campaign to raise funds to get their ground back or something that would help the club.
Some are accusing their administrators of being part of the grand scheme against them.
Cheers Micra! Now edited
Says it all that the EFL statement yesterday included the section 'Does the EFL have a vendetta against Derby County?'
That’s a puzzle in itself @ReturnToSenda (without the context, of course).
Just noticed they have Forest this weekend. Might even be on telly (12.30 ko). Should be a lively atmosphere.
It is indeed on telly. Might have to tune in!
Statement from Middlesbrough https://www.mfc.co.uk/news/club-statement-derby-county
RC on BBC Radio Derby this eve at 6
Exclusive: Wycombe owner Rob Couhig speaks to @BBCDerby on why he's pursuing a legal claim against Derby County.
Tonight at 6pm on Sportscene at Six.
Hopefully Rob will issue a similar statement.
The Middlesbrough one is very good. Pity the EFL couldn't come up with something less inflammatory.
Rob will be on the radio later
Derby Twitter frothing at the mouth already.
They’re losing their minds. Even started banging on about us cheating our way into the Championship (via PPG).
Interested to hear what Rob says on there. I suspect it’s going to be pretty hostile.
@drcongo In what way is it inflammatory?
@our_frank Compare it to the Middlesbrough one and it appears they were quite selective about the information they put in the special Wycombe + Middlesbrough section.
Apologise for what, Nathan?
Strong from Boro in their statement in line 1
CHEATING.
MFC became aware that Derby County was cheating under the P&S Rules during 2018/19
@micra would probably like that re-written as "were" cheating, but cheating is the key here
Unless we're dropping the claim (very unlikely), I really struggle to see what good can come of this...
Only just clocked that it's their local radio show!
He'll be making a speech at half time at their ground next
But there's no-one you'd rather backing our cause.
Are you sure? When referring to Derby in connection with the EFL rules, surely they are a corporate body therefore a single entity in which case "was" is appropriate. I am probably wrong but no doubt @micra will confirm one way or the other!
@Malone , @mooneyman
In the syntax of "they were cheating", the they can be singular or plural. So I'd agree "Derby County were cheating". ?
I thought it was a was as a were would mean all the Derby Counties were cheating.
(Though I admit my book learning is a long way back now...)
You could be right. It's unlikely he will be able to convince them of their wrongdoing.