The interviewer script had three headings supposition, accusation and emotion but on a positive note Rob came across really well pity that the Derby fans weren’t listening.
@ReturnToSenda said:
Apparently BBC Derby are out in Wycombe and Middlesbrough tomorrow getting vox pops? Fucking hell.
I heard that too, no doubt they'll just be in the town centre propositioning non-fans with no idea if the situation with ridiculous questions like "Do you want the Wycombe chairmen to cause Derby to liquidate?". To then quote without context as well
Rob came across really well, as is to be expected. I think he has put the ball right back into the administrators court. He's stuck to the facts as we know them.
We absolutely have a claim, no one can deny that.
Over to Quantuma & Mel Morris to see what happens next!
There is a discussion on Colin Murray's Radio 5 Live show at 11 tonight with Kieran Maguire (Price of Football pod & Liverpool Uni lecturer on football finance), Nigel Owen (member of DCFC Black & White Together supporters group), Pavinder Samra (Punjabi Rams supporters group), Steph Millward (not sure of her affiliation other than she is a DCFC fan) & Adam Boddington (another Black & White Together member by the looks of his twitter account).
I suspect KM is in for a hard time as he patiently explains the reality of Derby's situation to a group of people with their fingers in their ears sing "la la la" back at him
It's difficult not to write pages and pages on this. A few points from me.
-Our claim seems fairly sound, it might not win but they know what they did and Rob is no mug.
-We should if possible look to distance ourselves from a lot of the noise by only asking for money out of future profits or player sales after a takeover, if they survive there will be money there, if they don't there won't be.
-Derby should be cutting their cloth as we had to if they want to survive. If they can't afford an academy or players of a certain reputation they need to go and be replaced by whatever they can afford out of what will still be very decent gate receipts going forward
-Abusing Wycombe and Rob won't help them in any way and there's a lot of it about. They want favours but are not showing any contrition.
-Blaming the EFL is fine but their hands are tied by their other members, by the law and and by clubs like Derby suing them every time they make a decision they don't like.
-Morris cannot be allowed to emerge with any money here.
I’m tuned in to 5 Live awaiting what should be an interesting discussion. From occasional fleeting visits to Quest EFL show, I got the impression that Colin Murray is sympathetic to the Wycombe cause.
I know it’s been mentioned on this post previously, about how some of us trawl the web to find out what others say. I’ve gotta be honest, the more I read from Derby fans, the more I dislike them in general. I get that it’s largely desperation but they are an entitled bunch. If they were as passionate about sorting their own house out (ie challenging the admins if they’re not happy with how they are handling things) as they are when shouting down other teams, a lot more fans football in general would feel sympathy.
Rob Couhig gave a great interview. But perhaps the single best point he made is that Mel Morris isn’t giving up his own claims. If Morris gifted the stadium to the club tomorrow Derby would have a positive balance sheet.
As Kieran Maguire has said Morris could go from zero to hero by making the ground available to the administrators to be part of the sale & agreeing to underwrite any successful claim from Boro and ourselves
Rob had some real zingers in that interview. The question about the administrators' conduct, the question about Mel Morris and the stadium, the question about Mel Morris' admission in his own interview. The BBC Derby presenter could do nothing but quietly acknowledge that Rob was correct. He had really nothing left other than basically begging Rob to drop the case on humanitarian grounds.
@OakwoodExile said:
Rob Couhig gave a great interview. But perhaps the single best point he made is that Mel Morris isn’t giving up his own claims. If Morris gifted the stadium to the club tomorrow Derby would have a positive balance sheet.
Isn't there a suggestion he has already mortgaged a lot of it to MSD?
Agree with @therabbittest the presenter had no bullets in his gun by the end. I have said it before that this shit show has become the perfect storm. A meeting of a big club that overspends on a bet, the HMRC that allowed such a big debt to accrue & the EFL for not enforcing quick enough to oversee their own rules.
Problem now being, it was ok for the EFL to let little Bury and Macclesfield go to the wall, but now it’s big Derby and they don’t want to see it go down. The writing has been on the wall for years and I suspect that there are a fair few at the Premiere league head office that are getting sweaty rear ends at the minute. In the Championship, there are, I suspect, a few clubs that are hanging by their fingernails and if DCFC survive this through rule bending then another precedent will have been set and the game will be poorer for it.
The slow ease of parachute payments I think will escalate the rise of this shitpit and those that have been trading on the futures market will be heading down the same road. As such RC has now no choice but to be rather blinkered in his approach and see it through to the end. If DCFC do go, then maybe it will be a lesson learned for other “big clubs” and they will cut their cloths accordingly?
Does anyone know why we are pursuing Derby, rather than the EFL?
It was the EFL's incompetent audit process which meant the amortisation issue was not noticed upon first submission. If the EFL audited correctly first time round then this could have been solved a lot faster.
From the 5 live podcast it seems as if this could rumble on for at least another 12 months yet...
statistically teams that stay in Championship for a second term stay up for a third.
Rob wants to be financially compensated for the loss.
I'm sorry that I'm yet to have drunk the Kool Aid on this. But I genuinely cannot comprehend how someone can spend no money on permanent transfers in the January window, finish the campaign with £3m+ in the bank but get relegated by a point, and then lodge a claim with the administrators for up to £10m of lost earnings.
Gareth Ainsworth publicly lobbied to sign another striker that window. If we'd signed Sam Vokes in January - as a hypothetical example - and played him alongside Uche, does anyone think we wouldn't have gained another two points?
There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that we wanted to save money to spend over the coming years to keep the club financially sustainable. It's an argument the Couhigs made themselves when, I vaguely remember, they talked about how they'd be happy for Wycombe to be a yo-yo club for a few years before establishing themselves in the Championship. That's a fine argument to make. But I just don't see how it fits logically with what Rob Couhig is saying now. To me this claim smacks of opportunism. There are other very worthy creditors to Derby's demise. I'm really not persuaded we're one of them.
@frequentstander said:
Does anyone know why we are pursuing Derby, rather than the EFL?
It was the EFL's incompetent audit process which meant the amortisation issue was not noticed upon first submission. If the EFL audited correctly first time round then this could have been solved a lot faster.
From the 5 live podcast it seems as if this could rumble on for at least another 12 months yet...
statistically teams that stay in Championship for a second term stay up for a third.
Rob wants to be financially compensated for the loss.
I'm sorry that I'm yet to have drunk the Kool Aid on this. But I genuinely cannot comprehend how someone can spend no money on permanent transfers in the January window, finish the campaign with £3m+ in the bank but get relegated by a point, and then lodge a claim with the administrators for up to £10m of lost earnings.
Gareth Ainsworth publicly lobbied to sign another striker that window. If we'd signed Sam Vokes in January - as a hypothetical example - and played him alongside Uche, does anyone think we wouldn't have gained another two points?
There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that we wanted to save money to spend over the coming years to keep the club financially sustainable. It's an argument the Couhigs made themselves when, I vaguely remember, they talked about how they'd be happy for Wycombe to be a yo-yo club for a few years before establishing themselves in the Championship. That's a fine argument to make. But I just don't see how it fits logically with what Rob Couhig is saying now. To me this claim smacks of opportunism. There are other very worthy creditors to Derby's demise. I'm really not persuaded we're one of them.
Of course it's opportunistic. The Couhigs have skin in the game!
@frequentstander said:
Does anyone know why we are pursuing Derby, rather than the EFL?
It was the EFL's incompetent audit process which meant the amortisation issue was not noticed upon first submission. If the EFL audited correctly first time round then this could have been solved a lot faster.
From the 5 live podcast it seems as if this could rumble on for at least another 12 months yet...
DCFC don’t have 12 months, they have 2 weeks.
Yes. I have stated earlier in this thread that I think they will liquidate. That doesn't stop this rumbling on in one way or another through various claim processes (based on comments in the 5 live podcast by Kieran Maguire).
statistically teams that stay in Championship for a second term stay up for a third.
Rob wants to be financially compensated for the loss.
I'm sorry that I'm yet to have drunk the Kool Aid on this. But I genuinely cannot comprehend how someone can spend no money on permanent transfers in the January window, finish the campaign with £3m+ in the bank but get relegated by a point, and then lodge a claim with the administrators for up to £10m of lost earnings.
Gareth Ainsworth publicly lobbied to sign another striker that window. If we'd signed Sam Vokes in January - as a hypothetical example - and played him alongside Uche, does anyone think we wouldn't have gained another two points?
There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that we wanted to save money to spend over the coming years to keep the club financially sustainable. It's an argument the Couhigs made themselves when, I vaguely remember, they talked about how they'd be happy for Wycombe to be a yo-yo club for a few years before establishing themselves in the Championship. That's a fine argument to make. But I just don't see how it fits logically with what Rob Couhig is saying now. To me this claim smacks of opportunism. There are other very worthy creditors to Derby's demise. I'm really not persuaded we're one of them.
So us not gambling more in the championship with an eye on being competitive for 2/3 years in league 1 means we shouldn't be compensated for in the end for the cheating which directly caused us to be relegated come the final standings?
It's opportunist, in that if they hadn't cheated there wouldn't be the "opportunity" for us to have to recoup our losses, rather than simply earn the championship TV money we would rightly have received from being in the championship.
Not sure where you are coming from on this @aloysius You claim that GA publicly lobbied for another striker in the January window? I really don't remember GA doing so publicly, I do remember some on the gasroom were, but that is an aside. Maybe RC said no as we would then be running at a loss and we would have to "cook the books" to justify it? Therein lies the battle lines. Derby chose to gamble and cheat, Rob didn't and we were relegated as a consequence.
@frequentstander said:
Does anyone know why we are pursuing Derby, rather than the EFL?
It was the EFL's incompetent audit process which meant the amortisation issue was not noticed upon first submission. If the EFL audited correctly first time round then this could have been solved a lot faster.
From the 5 live podcast it seems as if this could rumble on for at least another 12 months yet...
I think there crux of it is, that the amortisation appeals procedure all went through, the decision, the appeal and then reappeal which confirmed that Derby were in breach, all of that timewasting was "within the rules". But then once Derby knew this would cause them to be deducted points and that was the reason for them delaying the handing over of their accounts, by Morris' own admission. That's just plain cheating, with the direct losers being us.
Yes the efl are culpable too, but you still blame the robbers and take them to court not the police, even if they were incompetent.
Sueing the EFL is sueing 72 clubs, 71 of which did nothing wrong
Not entirely true to say Derby have 2 weeks.
Although they have 2 weeks to demonstrate to the EFL that they have the funds to complete this seasons fixtures. I think the figure needed is £5M, but could be £10M.
Normally the EFL require this proof of funding from the Administrator as soon as they are appointed. In this case the Administrator for Derby has been in position since 21st September, or there about, but has still not been able to demonstrate they have the funding.
One way to generate these funds - maybe the only way - would be to sell plsyers yet so far they have sold only 1..... for £30K.
Yet even tonight I've heard the comment that Derby should be allowed to sign players in this transfer window and the embargo placed on them is unjust!
You couldn't make it up...
Comments
The interviewer script had three headings supposition, accusation and emotion but on a positive note Rob came across really well pity that the Derby fans weren’t listening.
I heard that too, no doubt they'll just be in the town centre propositioning non-fans with no idea if the situation with ridiculous questions like "Do you want the Wycombe chairmen to cause Derby to liquidate?". To then quote without context as well
Would love to spend the day hanging out in Wycombe town centre tomorrow.
Should read out your severed leg analogy live on air
That’s not a phrase you hear very often.
Pretty sure I saw Severed Leg Analogy supporting Napalm Death once.
Rob came across really well, as is to be expected. I think he has put the ball right back into the administrators court. He's stuck to the facts as we know them.
We absolutely have a claim, no one can deny that.
Over to Quantuma & Mel Morris to see what happens next!
That was a great interview. You all know where I stand on this, and I still do. But what a great man to have in our corner !
If I was a Derby fan I'd be asking serious questions of their administration after today's events.
I think it was Screaming Headless Torsos actually!
Robs message to Derby fans is stop screaming at us and look at what your administrators aren’t doing
There is a discussion on Colin Murray's Radio 5 Live show at 11 tonight with Kieran Maguire (Price of Football pod & Liverpool Uni lecturer on football finance), Nigel Owen (member of DCFC Black & White Together supporters group), Pavinder Samra (Punjabi Rams supporters group), Steph Millward (not sure of her affiliation other than she is a DCFC fan) & Adam Boddington (another Black & White Together member by the looks of his twitter account).
I suspect KM is in for a hard time as he patiently explains the reality of Derby's situation to a group of people with their fingers in their ears sing "la la la" back at him
It's difficult not to write pages and pages on this. A few points from me.
-Our claim seems fairly sound, it might not win but they know what they did and Rob is no mug.
-We should if possible look to distance ourselves from a lot of the noise by only asking for money out of future profits or player sales after a takeover, if they survive there will be money there, if they don't there won't be.
-Derby should be cutting their cloth as we had to if they want to survive. If they can't afford an academy or players of a certain reputation they need to go and be replaced by whatever they can afford out of what will still be very decent gate receipts going forward
-Abusing Wycombe and Rob won't help them in any way and there's a lot of it about. They want favours but are not showing any contrition.
-Blaming the EFL is fine but their hands are tied by their other members, by the law and and by clubs like Derby suing them every time they make a decision they don't like.
-Morris cannot be allowed to emerge with any money here.
We are really very lucky to have Rob Couhig. I'm not sure I could feel much more confident in a football club owner knowing his stuff as him.
I’m tuned in to 5 Live awaiting what should be an interesting discussion. From occasional fleeting visits to Quest EFL show, I got the impression that Colin Murray is sympathetic to the Wycombe cause.
I’d always say Derby County were in breach of regulations rather than ‘was’. I hate the way the Aussies say England is trailing by 485 runs !
I know it’s been mentioned on this post previously, about how some of us trawl the web to find out what others say. I’ve gotta be honest, the more I read from Derby fans, the more I dislike them in general. I get that it’s largely desperation but they are an entitled bunch. If they were as passionate about sorting their own house out (ie challenging the admins if they’re not happy with how they are handling things) as they are when shouting down other teams, a lot more fans football in general would feel sympathy.
Rob Couhig gave a great interview. But perhaps the single best point he made is that Mel Morris isn’t giving up his own claims. If Morris gifted the stadium to the club tomorrow Derby would have a positive balance sheet.
As Kieran Maguire has said Morris could go from zero to hero by making the ground available to the administrators to be part of the sale & agreeing to underwrite any successful claim from Boro and ourselves
Rob had some real zingers in that interview. The question about the administrators' conduct, the question about Mel Morris and the stadium, the question about Mel Morris' admission in his own interview. The BBC Derby presenter could do nothing but quietly acknowledge that Rob was correct. He had really nothing left other than basically begging Rob to drop the case on humanitarian grounds.
Isn't there a suggestion he has already mortgaged a lot of it to MSD?
Agree with @therabbittest the presenter had no bullets in his gun by the end. I have said it before that this shit show has become the perfect storm. A meeting of a big club that overspends on a bet, the HMRC that allowed such a big debt to accrue & the EFL for not enforcing quick enough to oversee their own rules.
Problem now being, it was ok for the EFL to let little Bury and Macclesfield go to the wall, but now it’s big Derby and they don’t want to see it go down. The writing has been on the wall for years and I suspect that there are a fair few at the Premiere league head office that are getting sweaty rear ends at the minute. In the Championship, there are, I suspect, a few clubs that are hanging by their fingernails and if DCFC survive this through rule bending then another precedent will have been set and the game will be poorer for it.
The slow ease of parachute payments I think will escalate the rise of this shitpit and those that have been trading on the futures market will be heading down the same road. As such RC has now no choice but to be rather blinkered in his approach and see it through to the end. If DCFC do go, then maybe it will be a lesson learned for other “big clubs” and they will cut their cloths accordingly?
Does anyone know why we are pursuing Derby, rather than the EFL?
It was the EFL's incompetent audit process which meant the amortisation issue was not noticed upon first submission. If the EFL audited correctly first time round then this could have been solved a lot faster.
From the 5 live podcast it seems as if this could rumble on for at least another 12 months yet...
I'm sorry that I'm yet to have drunk the Kool Aid on this. But I genuinely cannot comprehend how someone can spend no money on permanent transfers in the January window, finish the campaign with £3m+ in the bank but get relegated by a point, and then lodge a claim with the administrators for up to £10m of lost earnings.
Gareth Ainsworth publicly lobbied to sign another striker that window. If we'd signed Sam Vokes in January - as a hypothetical example - and played him alongside Uche, does anyone think we wouldn't have gained another two points?
There's a perfectly valid argument to be made that we wanted to save money to spend over the coming years to keep the club financially sustainable. It's an argument the Couhigs made themselves when, I vaguely remember, they talked about how they'd be happy for Wycombe to be a yo-yo club for a few years before establishing themselves in the Championship. That's a fine argument to make. But I just don't see how it fits logically with what Rob Couhig is saying now. To me this claim smacks of opportunism. There are other very worthy creditors to Derby's demise. I'm really not persuaded we're one of them.
DCFC don’t have 12 months, they have 2 weeks.
Of course it's opportunistic. The Couhigs have skin in the game!
Yes. I have stated earlier in this thread that I think they will liquidate. That doesn't stop this rumbling on in one way or another through various claim processes (based on comments in the 5 live podcast by Kieran Maguire).
So us not gambling more in the championship with an eye on being competitive for 2/3 years in league 1 means we shouldn't be compensated for in the end for the cheating which directly caused us to be relegated come the final standings?
It's opportunist, in that if they hadn't cheated there wouldn't be the "opportunity" for us to have to recoup our losses, rather than simply earn the championship TV money we would rightly have received from being in the championship.
Not sure where you are coming from on this @aloysius You claim that GA publicly lobbied for another striker in the January window? I really don't remember GA doing so publicly, I do remember some on the gasroom were, but that is an aside. Maybe RC said no as we would then be running at a loss and we would have to "cook the books" to justify it? Therein lies the battle lines. Derby chose to gamble and cheat, Rob didn't and we were relegated as a consequence.
I think there crux of it is, that the amortisation appeals procedure all went through, the decision, the appeal and then reappeal which confirmed that Derby were in breach, all of that timewasting was "within the rules". But then once Derby knew this would cause them to be deducted points and that was the reason for them delaying the handing over of their accounts, by Morris' own admission. That's just plain cheating, with the direct losers being us.
Yes the efl are culpable too, but you still blame the robbers and take them to court not the police, even if they were incompetent.
Sueing the EFL is sueing 72 clubs, 71 of which did nothing wrong
Not entirely true to say Derby have 2 weeks.
Although they have 2 weeks to demonstrate to the EFL that they have the funds to complete this seasons fixtures. I think the figure needed is £5M, but could be £10M.
Normally the EFL require this proof of funding from the Administrator as soon as they are appointed. In this case the Administrator for Derby has been in position since 21st September, or there about, but has still not been able to demonstrate they have the funding.
One way to generate these funds - maybe the only way - would be to sell plsyers yet so far they have sold only 1..... for £30K.
Yet even tonight I've heard the comment that Derby should be allowed to sign players in this transfer window and the embargo placed on them is unjust!
You couldn't make it up...