@floyd said:
I understand why supporters of other clubs don't recognize why what we've got here is a bit special, but it baffles me that after all this time some of our own supporters don't see it.
If Gareth had been sacked at Christmas we'd have been relegated weeks ago, and have no chance of keeping the nucleus of a squad together to make a go of promotion next season.
People see what they want to see.
Players are delighted to get back here. Half the squad in recent seasons are on their 2nd or 3rd spell here. There's constant soundbites about the atmosphere, in a way I can't ever remember with previous regimes.
The best you got back then was the standard "good set of lads" cliche.
@glasshalffull said:
I am encouraged by the overwhelming number of posters who understand and appreciate just how important Gareth has been to the progress we have made in the last couple of seasons. I would also add that he has proved himself to be open and adaptable to changing his mindset and philosophy when it comes to tactics and style of play. This season was a learning curve for him and results since Christmas prove that he has taken on board the lessons learned. It will be a sad day when he leaves and I am sure that the decision to go will be his and not the club’s.
Re your last paragraph, out of (genuine) interest what do you think the mood would be among the supporters and more importantly perhaps the Couhig family if we were say 18th in League 1 come 1st December, @glasshalffull ? Would you final paragraph still stand?
@Chris said:
If we’re not in the top half come Christmas he’ll be gone.
Total rubbish. If next season is in League One I'd say it is almost certain we will have a slow start. Getting used to a new league again with some key leaders taking a back seat will be a tough start.
I fear that some might get panicky at that point but having come this far ditching the manager would be a horrible decision
@DevC said:
Re your last paragraph, out of (genuine) interest what do you think the mood would be among the supporters and more importantly perhaps the Couhig family if we were say 18th in League 1 come 1st December, @glasshalffull ? Would you final paragraph still stand?
No chance the lunatic fringe will wait that long. If we have a rough opening month people will want GA replaced.
My perspective is that without GA, Dobbo and the backroom team they have assembled we might not be in existence and if we were we would probably still be yo-yoing between tiers 3 & 4. They have created a culture and club ethos that makes us greater than the sum of our parts and has allowed us to punch way above our weight this season. As others have said the backroom team were as much on a learning curve as the players and they have clearly taken on board those lessons as the second half of the season has shown.
If and when GA & his team move on (and I suspect most will go with him) we will all rue that loss and it will fundamentally alter the dynamic of the dressing room and the club and as such is not something anyone should wish for.
Equally thanks and acknowledgement must go to the Couhigs for buying into the club and its ethos and for providing much needed financial support, the changes they have and continue to make will stand the club in good stead for many years to come. They seem markedly different from many other owners, particularly in Tier 2, especially in terms of their longer term objectives, Today's announcements by the "greedy 6" from the PL shows the fragility of football and the knock-on of that and the last 2 seasons in terms of football finances will see many clubs struggle financially as they do not have the sustainability agenda that the Couhigs have brought to the table here.
@Chris said:
If we’re not in the top half come Christmas he’ll be gone.
Total rubbish. If next season is in League One I'd say it is almost certain we will have a slow start. Getting used to a new league again with some key leaders taking a back seat will be a tough start.
I fear that some might get panicky at that point but having come this far ditching the manager would be a horrible decision
Totally share your perspective @Erroll_Sims. The greatest sadness currently is the existence of fans who are seemingly incapable of sharing that perspective. The club has never been better/more shrewdly run or more successful in all the decades I have been a supporter and it’s a great pity that some fans, for whatever reason, cannot see what a great achievement it has been to have competed so well against clubs with recent and/or prospective membership of the Premier League.
As some predicted before a ball was kicked this season was destined to be a boom time for GA bashers. Remember when there was no chance of him getting us out of League Two, or when there was no way we would survive in League One, and when we would never in a million years get to the Championship, now we are in the second tier for the first time ever, it is too much for him, and by the time we are back in League One he will have lost the dressing room, run out of ideas and have no chance of getting us back up to where we belong! I suspect a lot of the people shaking their heads sadly and telling us he has taken us as far as he can are the people who were telling us he had taken us as far as he could...two years ago.
Current timeline with hypothetical finish next year:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: Promoted from L1
2020-21: Relegated from Championship
2021-22: 10th in L1
Verdict: "Ainsworth out!"
Alternate timeline:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: 15th in L1
2020-21: 13th in L1
2021-22: 11th in L1
Verdict: "What an amazing job GA has done to make us a sustainable mid-table L1 club!"
There can be very few managers who enjoy such support amongst their club's fans as Gaz, and rightly so. Seems odd to me that some people choose to fixate upon the odd dissenting voice.
This latest round of it seems to have been sparked by one person if I'm not mistaken
How good was Dennis Adeniran on Saturday? Seemed always to be ahead of the game: getting a foot in and starting starting attacks, spotting the gaps and passing into them, or surging into space himself. A genuinely wonderful performance. Reminded me of watching Josh Scowen in Division 4.
Current timeline with hypothetical finish next year:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: Promoted from L1
2020-21: Relegated from Championship
2021-22: 10th in L1
Verdict: "Ainsworth out!"
Alternate timeline:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: 15th in L1
2020-21: 13th in L1
2021-22: 11th in L1
Verdict: "What an amazing job GA has done to make us a sustainable mid-table L1 club!"
@Shev that's an interesting post. Especially your alternate timeline. But if you take that, and rewind 20 years, our situation was almost identical to the one you've outlined, give or take an FA Cup semi-final, and perhaps not being quite as sustainable as we're aiming to be now.
The difference is in the verdict. Instead of the manager being lauded for his achievements, he was on the way to being thoroughly vilified for his failure to achieve Championship status, and for his style of football. I remember going to a fan's forum where, under fierce criticism, he said he would change the team's playing style to appease the fans. He began to do so, but the decision backfired, we went backwards, the manager had been sacked a year or so later, and a year after that we were back in League Two, where we would remain for a further five years.
Thankfully, I believe that our fanbase as a whole is more patient now than they were then. But the above demonstrates that, even if some people might have thought we were doing OK, there was always a proportion of fans who would be unhappy.
Be careful what you wish for, is what I'm possibly trying to say, in a roundabout way.
re. "the GA motivational effect", I said this elsewhere in a slightly different context, but never underestimate the resilience we've shown this season in our hardest ever season (in terms of the quality of the teams/players we've faced).
I still remember (much as I try not to) games in previous relegation seasons (yeah I know it's not done and dusted yet, but...). In those, heads would drop the minute a goal went in, the players just looked totally disheartened etc.
I would guess I've seen about 75% of games this season and I can honestly say (even in the thumpings) we've never given up. That really is worth a lot.
There's so many ifs buts and maybes to this season:
...if Player X had been available earlier
...if such-and-such decision had gone our way
...if we'd discovered the recent formation change earlier
but I'm sure every team fighting the drop could say the same.
Next season looks very optimistic as far as I'm concerned, obviously there will be transfer dealings to be done, but I think it pretty unlikely that we couldn't be highly competitive in L1 with the spine of the current squad.
Current timeline with hypothetical finish next year:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: Promoted from L1
2020-21: Relegated from Championship
2021-22: 10th in L1
Verdict: "Ainsworth out!"
Alternate timeline:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: 15th in L1
2020-21: 13th in L1
2021-22: 11th in L1
Verdict: "What an amazing job GA has done to make us a sustainable mid-table L1 club!"
In reality I suspect the type of fan who has started talking about the manager being axed, wouldn't be the type patiently enjoying midtable.
There's always been a strange anti Ainsworth undercurrent that is never that far away from the surface.
re. "the GA motivational effect" - I always thought St Martin was far better at managing a bunch of average players than he was at managing exceptional players. Both GA and Mo'N seem to be extremely good at creating a team, rather than a collection of individuals - I think this is a hugely undervalued skill in football management and in my opinion, one that's missing from way more than half the managers in the Championship. You look at Preston, Birmingham, QPR etc, they've got an exceptional group of individual players but you'd hardly call them a team - they all play like they barely know the other people on the pitch.
Edit: This is why I think replacing GA at xmas would have been catastrophic, and replacing him at any point in the future will be detrimental. The longer he's with us, the stronger that teaminess gets, and never was it more apparent than in the playoff games last year, or the way we've played the last few games this year.
@drcongo said:
re. "the GA motivational effect" - I always thought St Martin was far better at managing a bunch of average players than he was at managing exceptional players. Both GA and Mo'N seem to be extremely good at creating a team, rather than a collection of individuals - I think this is a hugely undervalued skill in football management and in my opinion, one that's missing from way more than half the managers in the Championship. You look at Preston, Birmingham, QPR etc, they've got an exceptional group of individual players but you'd hardly call them a team - they all play like they barely know the other people on the pitch.
I think this is a far better way of describing what Gareth Ainsworth brings to the role rather than simply maintaining a harmonious dressing room. I really think that suggesting that morale among players would collapse if he left is quite disrespectful to the players' professionalism. And the idea that none of our players have abrasive personalities is probably also far from the truth. Gareth has signed his fair share of tough guys and one or two whose personalities clearly haven't gelled. It's not so much who he brings in, more how he then motivates them to play as a single unit, help each other out and cover each others' positions. And if they don't, they're moved on. That's played a huge part in our success over the last few seasons, ever since it really came together for the first time at Torquay. It's camaraderie he brings. Not harmony.
Comments
People see what they want to see.
Players are delighted to get back here. Half the squad in recent seasons are on their 2nd or 3rd spell here. There's constant soundbites about the atmosphere, in a way I can't ever remember with previous regimes.
The best you got back then was the standard "good set of lads" cliche.
More than one player has said GA and the club made them fall back in love with the sport. That is a bit over the top for mere lip service.
I agree with all of this
Re your last paragraph, out of (genuine) interest what do you think the mood would be among the supporters and more importantly perhaps the Couhig family if we were say 18th in League 1 come 1st December, @glasshalffull ? Would you final paragraph still stand?
If we’re not in the top half come Christmas he’ll be gone.
Total rubbish. If next season is in League One I'd say it is almost certain we will have a slow start. Getting used to a new league again with some key leaders taking a back seat will be a tough start.
I fear that some might get panicky at that point but having come this far ditching the manager would be a horrible decision
No chance the lunatic fringe will wait that long. If we have a rough opening month people will want GA replaced.
Sadly, you are right @floyd
My perspective is that without GA, Dobbo and the backroom team they have assembled we might not be in existence and if we were we would probably still be yo-yoing between tiers 3 & 4. They have created a culture and club ethos that makes us greater than the sum of our parts and has allowed us to punch way above our weight this season. As others have said the backroom team were as much on a learning curve as the players and they have clearly taken on board those lessons as the second half of the season has shown.
If and when GA & his team move on (and I suspect most will go with him) we will all rue that loss and it will fundamentally alter the dynamic of the dressing room and the club and as such is not something anyone should wish for.
Equally thanks and acknowledgement must go to the Couhigs for buying into the club and its ethos and for providing much needed financial support, the changes they have and continue to make will stand the club in good stead for many years to come. They seem markedly different from many other owners, particularly in Tier 2, especially in terms of their longer term objectives, Today's announcements by the "greedy 6" from the PL shows the fragility of football and the knock-on of that and the last 2 seasons in terms of football finances will see many clubs struggle financially as they do not have the sustainability agenda that the Couhigs have brought to the table here.
I agree it would be a horrible decision.
Totally share your perspective @Erroll_Sims. The greatest sadness currently is the existence of fans who are seemingly incapable of sharing that perspective. The club has never been better/more shrewdly run or more successful in all the decades I have been a supporter and it’s a great pity that some fans, for whatever reason, cannot see what a great achievement it has been to have competed so well against clubs with recent and/or prospective membership of the Premier League.
As some predicted before a ball was kicked this season was destined to be a boom time for GA bashers. Remember when there was no chance of him getting us out of League Two, or when there was no way we would survive in League One, and when we would never in a million years get to the Championship, now we are in the second tier for the first time ever, it is too much for him, and by the time we are back in League One he will have lost the dressing room, run out of ideas and have no chance of getting us back up to where we belong! I suspect a lot of the people shaking their heads sadly and telling us he has taken us as far as he can are the people who were telling us he had taken us as far as he could...two years ago.
Great post, @Wendoverman. Here is the irony:
Current timeline with hypothetical finish next year:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: Promoted from L1
2020-21: Relegated from Championship
2021-22: 10th in L1
Verdict: "Ainsworth out!"
Alternate timeline:
2018-19: 17th in L1
2019-20: 15th in L1
2020-21: 13th in L1
2021-22: 11th in L1
Verdict: "What an amazing job GA has done to make us a sustainable mid-table L1 club!"
There can be very few managers who enjoy such support amongst their club's fans as Gaz, and rightly so. Seems odd to me that some people choose to fixate upon the odd dissenting voice.
This latest round of it seems to have been sparked by one person if I'm not mistaken
How good was Dennis Adeniran on Saturday? Seemed always to be ahead of the game: getting a foot in and starting starting attacks, spotting the gaps and passing into them, or surging into space himself. A genuinely wonderful performance. Reminded me of watching Josh Scowen in Division 4.
Dennis Adeniran was everywhere, great player on Saturday
Sorry @eric_plant
@Shev that's an interesting post. Especially your alternate timeline. But if you take that, and rewind 20 years, our situation was almost identical to the one you've outlined, give or take an FA Cup semi-final, and perhaps not being quite as sustainable as we're aiming to be now.
The difference is in the verdict. Instead of the manager being lauded for his achievements, he was on the way to being thoroughly vilified for his failure to achieve Championship status, and for his style of football. I remember going to a fan's forum where, under fierce criticism, he said he would change the team's playing style to appease the fans. He began to do so, but the decision backfired, we went backwards, the manager had been sacked a year or so later, and a year after that we were back in League Two, where we would remain for a further five years.
Thankfully, I believe that our fanbase as a whole is more patient now than they were then. But the above demonstrates that, even if some people might have thought we were doing OK, there was always a proportion of fans who would be unhappy.
Be careful what you wish for, is what I'm possibly trying to say, in a roundabout way.
re. "the GA motivational effect", I said this elsewhere in a slightly different context, but never underestimate the resilience we've shown this season in our hardest ever season (in terms of the quality of the teams/players we've faced).
I still remember (much as I try not to) games in previous relegation seasons (yeah I know it's not done and dusted yet, but...). In those, heads would drop the minute a goal went in, the players just looked totally disheartened etc.
I would guess I've seen about 75% of games this season and I can honestly say (even in the thumpings) we've never given up. That really is worth a lot.
There's so many ifs buts and maybes to this season:
...if Player X had been available earlier
...if such-and-such decision had gone our way
...if we'd discovered the recent formation change earlier
but I'm sure every team fighting the drop could say the same.
Next season looks very optimistic as far as I'm concerned, obviously there will be transfer dealings to be done, but I think it pretty unlikely that we couldn't be highly competitive in L1 with the spine of the current squad.
No need to apologise, people can say what they want
In reality I suspect the type of fan who has started talking about the manager being axed, wouldn't be the type patiently enjoying midtable.
There's always been a strange anti Ainsworth undercurrent that is never that far away from the surface.
re. "the GA motivational effect" - I always thought St Martin was far better at managing a bunch of average players than he was at managing exceptional players. Both GA and Mo'N seem to be extremely good at creating a team, rather than a collection of individuals - I think this is a hugely undervalued skill in football management and in my opinion, one that's missing from way more than half the managers in the Championship. You look at Preston, Birmingham, QPR etc, they've got an exceptional group of individual players but you'd hardly call them a team - they all play like they barely know the other people on the pitch.
Edit: This is why I think replacing GA at xmas would have been catastrophic, and replacing him at any point in the future will be detrimental. The longer he's with us, the stronger that teaminess gets, and never was it more apparent than in the playoff games last year, or the way we've played the last few games this year.
I would be interested to know who the no plan b people thought we would have recruited to ensure survival.
I think this is a far better way of describing what Gareth Ainsworth brings to the role rather than simply maintaining a harmonious dressing room. I really think that suggesting that morale among players would collapse if he left is quite disrespectful to the players' professionalism. And the idea that none of our players have abrasive personalities is probably also far from the truth. Gareth has signed his fair share of tough guys and one or two whose personalities clearly haven't gelled. It's not so much who he brings in, more how he then motivates them to play as a single unit, help each other out and cover each others' positions. And if they don't, they're moved on. That's played a huge part in our success over the last few seasons, ever since it really came together for the first time at Torquay. It's camaraderie he brings. Not harmony.