Kashket and Bayo are getting into good positions most consistently, but Bayo's finishing has been poor all season and Scotty's has been recently - so we have a bit of a problem...
Well that’s been interesting! I am one of Kashket’s greatest fans and always have been. His overall game has come on in leaps and bounds and his name will always be one of the first on the team sheet. I was not suggesting for one moment that Mehmeti should be ahead of him, simply that, because he has very quick feet, good close control and the confidence of youth (witness that 35 yarder a few games ago) he should be given the opportunity (as a substitute) to slot into a Kashket type role. In my original post, I chose the word ‘role’ quite deliberately. Of course he’s not going to take his place.
I don’t buy into the argument that he is too young and inexperienced to make an important contribution. When young Dennis Adeniran arrived on Friday 25th September he had played only a couple of professional games and one notorious poster on the original Wanderers Facebook page set out, paragraph after paragraph, how there was absolutely no way he would play the following day. The following day he played the full 90 minutes against Swansea. Along with the rest of the team, he grew in confidence and, as we all recall, Wycombe went toe to toe with Swansea in the second half.
Anis will be 20 in a couple of weeks time and I’m pretty sure there are numerous players of that age and under at Premier League and Championship clubs who have come to prominence within months of making their professional debuts.
Apart from that, I agree with much that has been said this afternoon, especially how good it was to see a player as cultured and composed as Nick Freeman finally being able to show how good he can be at this level.
@chairboyscentral said:
Kashket and Bayo are getting into good positions most consistently, but Bayo's finishing has been poor all season and Scotty's has been recently - so we have a bit of a problem...
Agreed, they’re also the only players being given a regular chance for a full game, except Samuel when he plays instead of Bayo.
I just think we’re giving some players extended runs and others aren’t being given much of a chance to make a case up front.
@chairboyscentral said:
Nine goals if you take away the pens and the OG. We're creating a good amount, we've just been really wasteful.
If you take away the ludicrous mistakes like the Millwall keeper made then the total gets very sketchy indeed.
But then I suppose every season we could do the same to reduce it.
Would be easier if we scored more goals wouldn't it?
Kashket's early chance yesterday wasn't deemed 'clear cut' by the stats guru's so I've no idea how to improve to get our strikers better chances.
Could it just be we're up against better defenders than our strike force have met before? Certainly the goalies on this league have been excellent until the QPR guy yesterday
The goalkeeping standard is a pretty big factor, yeah. Kashket's a very good finisher, but we'll probably need an even better one in January - but they need to be a grafter too, Gaz won't want a pure poacher. That might be easier said than done as presumably we'll only be able to bring players in on loan, but you never know, we might unearth the next Marcello Trotta...
Whilst obviously the lack of goals from the Bayo-Kashket partnership is a little concerning (anyone else think if we get another penalty Bayo should take it if he’s on the pitch?), what shouldn’t be underestimated is how much they affect how teams play against us.
Their different attributes mean that defences have to work hard to contain them which then makes it harder for teams to be comfortable against us.
Where we are currently lacking (along with the misfiring of the front two) is that we aren’t really backing this up with goals from midfield although there have been promising signs in recent games that we are creating more chances.
I just think we’re giving some players extended runs and others aren’t being given much of a chance to make a case up front.
>
While I agree we haven't seen some players much on a match day, surely GA & Dobbo will have seen enough in training to decide if they have made a case.
It's hard to think who deserves an extended run who's not already had one. Fred, perhaps, but he's not really making the case when he does get minutes. Samuel hasn't looked effective. Parker is a bemusing one, he certainly deserves the opportunity to come off the subs bench at some stage at least. Mehmeti looks cameo-level to me.
Other than that we're down to the bare bones of the squad. The only available player we've not yet seen is Stockdale, though Allsop doesn't deserve to be dropped.
I think we're going to need much more than just a striker and a defender in Jan. We need another ball-playing central midfielder and another left back as well (can only assume this guy we got from Chelsea isn't Championship standard if he's not making the bench in days we don't have other defensive cover).
With everyone fit we can field a team that competes with all lower half Championship teams, which is all we need to do and realistically all we could aspire to do at this stage in our development. But the squad depth quickly drops off. We need more quality loans and we need to spend some of the many millions we've been given to be competitive in this league. Let's not pretend any more that we can somehow stay up on a never-say-die spirit alone.
@Twizz said:
>
While I agree we haven't seen some players much on a match day, surely GA & Dobbo will have seen enough in training to decide if they have made a case.
Every person has favourites or unconscious/conscious bias etc.
Personally I think GA is giving Kashket a continued run in the side based on the fact he is our most natural finisher. He’s even started on the right wing, clearly out of position. For me it shows a potential lack of belief in other squad players to score any goals.
He’s now missed quite a few chances that I would feel he’s disappointed with. Two chances in the six yard box straight at the keeper, the right footed chance from center of goal six yards out and of course a difficult header at the weekend.
I’m definitely bias towards Fred and I think he’s not been given a chance to shine alongside Bayo and the reason for me is the management team continue to pick Kashket this season no matter what.
I do hope this faith is repaid soon or Fred is given a more central role.
Kashket has rightly had a lot of praise for some decent performances as a lot of people, myself included thought he wouldn't get a huge amount of game time. He didn't exactly start a lot of games in a tier lower for one thing.
I'm not sure he's been brilliant like some seem to think though. He seems to have recently lost his main attribute.
Interesting that most posters are concentrating on our shortage of goals. Personally, I think better defending is the key to our survival as you only need to score one goal as long as you keep a clean sheet. Look at Stoke, they are two points off a play off place despite a GD of just +4.
It is mainly the teams with a good defensive record who are prospering.
We have been strong defensively when we've not been absolutely battered by injuries. Losing your three best, defensive midfielders and best centre-back - and having to play right-backs in his place - are hardly going to be conducive to keeping it tight at the back. We've been particularly unlucky in that respect.
Gareth wants defenders in January though, so he knows we could do with more depth there (in fairness, I assumed he meant centre-backs, but I suppose he could be including a left-back in that).
We do need to seriously improve our finishing though; nine goals (12 minus penalties and an own goal) in 20 games is poor whichever way you look at it.
@chairboyscentral said:
You don't change your penalty taker if he's not missing!
I was thinking that if Bayo was to get a goal (no guarantee from a penalty I appreciate) it would get that ‘can’t score in the Championship’ tag off his back and it could give him more confidence and he might start taking his chances.
It was in no way a suggestion that JJ deserves not to more an ‘is it for the greater good to get Bayo off the mark’ type thinking
@chairboyscentral said:
You don't change your penalty taker if he's not missing!
I was thinking that if Bayo was to get a goal (no guarantee from a penalty I appreciate) it would get that ‘can’t score in the Championship’ tag off his back and it could give him more confidence and he might start taking his chances.
It was in no way a suggestion that JJ deserves not to more an ‘is it for the greater good to get Bayo off the mark’ type thinking
I get that, I just don't think Bayo is one to struggle for confidence.
I feared for us this season and have been pleasantly surprised at how competitive we have been . We seemed to struggle against higher level teams in cup games in previous seasons.
Interesting (ish) fact - only five teams in our league have gone longer since a two goal defeat (bla, sto, cov, bre and bou).
With almost half season gone, I think we can be proud of how well how team has competed
@chairboyscentral said:
You don't change your penalty taker if he's not missing!
I was thinking that if Bayo was to get a goal (no guarantee from a penalty I appreciate) it would get that ‘can’t score in the Championship’ tag off his back and it could give him more confidence and he might start taking his chances.
It was in no way a suggestion that JJ deserves not to more an ‘is it for the greater good to get Bayo off the mark’ type thinking
I get that, I just don't think Bayo is one to struggle for confidence.
If we were 3-0 up I’d be all for it, but I also agree that confidence doesn’t look to be Bayo’s problem at the moment - he just looks absolutely shattered within 15 minutes of kick off.
I think the reason Kashket is getting so much game time at the moment is his pace. At this level he is scarily quick and getting to balls and putting pressure on defenders when he’s no right to even get there. There were 2 or 3 times Saturday when he came from nowhere to challenge a defender.
I remember some years ago an international level defender (can’t remember who) saying that the thing defenders feared most was forwards with pace
@bookertease opponents do seem to play an infeasibly high line against us, perfect for a player with pace, tenacity, quick-witedness and a lethal shot. Kashket has all that, if he'd put those two chances away yesterday people would be talking about him as destined for the Premier League. Miss them and some are suggesting he's dropped.
Personally I've never seen him as the weak link this season, always Bayo. That looks likely to be resolved, injuries to Ikpeazu allowing. But like a few others, I've been disappointed that when Kashket hasn't been firing on all cylinders Fred hasn't been played centrally in his place. He has all the same attributes - minus Kashket's cockiness. Maybe that explains the 'make Fred angry' comment of Bayo's.
@Commoner, FWIW I'm bemused by the fact the Parker hasn't been given any opportunity! Glad that I don't have to pick the starting 11 each week, but then I don't see the players every day in training either so...
My own feeling is that in many positions our opposition are often 5-10% "better" be that faster, stamina, skillful, clinical finishing, anticipation, positional sense etc.. Over the duration of a game that's what is making the difference in many games so far.
Where I think we have been "better" than many is team spirit and togetherness, although, sadly team spirit and togetherness don't often win games.
I do enjoy watching our players perform to the maximum of their ability. Provided, after 46 games I feel that our players have given 100% then I don't think I can realistically complain even if we don't pick up any more points.
I won't be happy but...
Comments
Kashket and Bayo are getting into good positions most consistently, but Bayo's finishing has been poor all season and Scotty's has been recently - so we have a bit of a problem...
Well that’s been interesting! I am one of Kashket’s greatest fans and always have been. His overall game has come on in leaps and bounds and his name will always be one of the first on the team sheet. I was not suggesting for one moment that Mehmeti should be ahead of him, simply that, because he has very quick feet, good close control and the confidence of youth (witness that 35 yarder a few games ago) he should be given the opportunity (as a substitute) to slot into a Kashket type role. In my original post, I chose the word ‘role’ quite deliberately. Of course he’s not going to take his place.
I don’t buy into the argument that he is too young and inexperienced to make an important contribution. When young Dennis Adeniran arrived on Friday 25th September he had played only a couple of professional games and one notorious poster on the original Wanderers Facebook page set out, paragraph after paragraph, how there was absolutely no way he would play the following day. The following day he played the full 90 minutes against Swansea. Along with the rest of the team, he grew in confidence and, as we all recall, Wycombe went toe to toe with Swansea in the second half.
Anis will be 20 in a couple of weeks time and I’m pretty sure there are numerous players of that age and under at Premier League and Championship clubs who have come to prominence within months of making their professional debuts.
Apart from that, I agree with much that has been said this afternoon, especially how good it was to see a player as cultured and composed as Nick Freeman finally being able to show how good he can be at this level.
To not quite quote Mike Bassett ... If you're good enough, you're old enough.
Shockingly low goals tally really.
Rotherham in their 29 point season still scored 35
12 in 20 for us so far.
Maybe we needed to hit the bottom of the table to make the comeback even better?
Nine goals if you take away the pens and the OG. We're creating a good amount, we've just been really wasteful.
Agreed, they’re also the only players being given a regular chance for a full game, except Samuel when he plays instead of Bayo.
I just think we’re giving some players extended runs and others aren’t being given much of a chance to make a case up front.
If you take away the ludicrous mistakes like the Millwall keeper made then the total gets very sketchy indeed.
But then I suppose every season we could do the same to reduce it.
And like you say at least we're making more now.
Would be easier if we scored more goals wouldn't it?
Kashket's early chance yesterday wasn't deemed 'clear cut' by the stats guru's so I've no idea how to improve to get our strikers better chances.
Could it just be we're up against better defenders than our strike force have met before? Certainly the goalies on this league have been excellent until the QPR guy yesterday
The goalkeeping standard is a pretty big factor, yeah. Kashket's a very good finisher, but we'll probably need an even better one in January - but they need to be a grafter too, Gaz won't want a pure poacher. That might be easier said than done as presumably we'll only be able to bring players in on loan, but you never know, we might unearth the next Marcello Trotta...
Whilst obviously the lack of goals from the Bayo-Kashket partnership is a little concerning (anyone else think if we get another penalty Bayo should take it if he’s on the pitch?), what shouldn’t be underestimated is how much they affect how teams play against us.
Their different attributes mean that defences have to work hard to contain them which then makes it harder for teams to be comfortable against us.
Where we are currently lacking (along with the misfiring of the front two) is that we aren’t really backing this up with goals from midfield although there have been promising signs in recent games that we are creating more chances.
You don't change your penalty taker if he's not missing!
>
While I agree we haven't seen some players much on a match day, surely GA & Dobbo will have seen enough in training to decide if they have made a case.
It's hard to think who deserves an extended run who's not already had one. Fred, perhaps, but he's not really making the case when he does get minutes. Samuel hasn't looked effective. Parker is a bemusing one, he certainly deserves the opportunity to come off the subs bench at some stage at least. Mehmeti looks cameo-level to me.
Other than that we're down to the bare bones of the squad. The only available player we've not yet seen is Stockdale, though Allsop doesn't deserve to be dropped.
I think we're going to need much more than just a striker and a defender in Jan. We need another ball-playing central midfielder and another left back as well (can only assume this guy we got from Chelsea isn't Championship standard if he's not making the bench in days we don't have other defensive cover).
With everyone fit we can field a team that competes with all lower half Championship teams, which is all we need to do and realistically all we could aspire to do at this stage in our development. But the squad depth quickly drops off. We need more quality loans and we need to spend some of the many millions we've been given to be competitive in this league. Let's not pretend any more that we can somehow stay up on a never-say-die spirit alone.
I don't think anyone thinks we can stay up on that alone?
There were plenty of people arguing that as the transfer deadline approached, @chairboyscentral.
Every person has favourites or unconscious/conscious bias etc.
Personally I think GA is giving Kashket a continued run in the side based on the fact he is our most natural finisher. He’s even started on the right wing, clearly out of position. For me it shows a potential lack of belief in other squad players to score any goals.
He’s now missed quite a few chances that I would feel he’s disappointed with. Two chances in the six yard box straight at the keeper, the right footed chance from center of goal six yards out and of course a difficult header at the weekend.
I’m definitely bias towards Fred and I think he’s not been given a chance to shine alongside Bayo and the reason for me is the management team continue to pick Kashket this season no matter what.
I do hope this faith is repaid soon or Fred is given a more central role.
Kashket has rightly had a lot of praise for some decent performances as a lot of people, myself included thought he wouldn't get a huge amount of game time. He didn't exactly start a lot of games in a tier lower for one thing.
I'm not sure he's been brilliant like some seem to think though. He seems to have recently lost his main attribute.
Interesting that most posters are concentrating on our shortage of goals. Personally, I think better defending is the key to our survival as you only need to score one goal as long as you keep a clean sheet. Look at Stoke, they are two points off a play off place despite a GD of just +4.
It is mainly the teams with a good defensive record who are prospering.
We have been strong defensively when we've not been absolutely battered by injuries. Losing your three best, defensive midfielders and best centre-back - and having to play right-backs in his place - are hardly going to be conducive to keeping it tight at the back. We've been particularly unlucky in that respect.
Gareth wants defenders in January though, so he knows we could do with more depth there (in fairness, I assumed he meant centre-backs, but I suppose he could be including a left-back in that).
We do need to seriously improve our finishing though; nine goals (12 minus penalties and an own goal) in 20 games is poor whichever way you look at it.
I think we’re debating the shortage of goals BECAUSE our defending (bar the odd mistake) has generally been very good.
I’m pretty sure if we were regularly letting 2-3 goals in every game we would be endlessly complaining about it on here.
I was thinking that if Bayo was to get a goal (no guarantee from a penalty I appreciate) it would get that ‘can’t score in the Championship’ tag off his back and it could give him more confidence and he might start taking his chances.
It was in no way a suggestion that JJ deserves not to more an ‘is it for the greater good to get Bayo off the mark’ type thinking
I get that, I just don't think Bayo is one to struggle for confidence.
I feared for us this season and have been pleasantly surprised at how competitive we have been . We seemed to struggle against higher level teams in cup games in previous seasons.
Interesting (ish) fact - only five teams in our league have gone longer since a two goal defeat (bla, sto, cov, bre and bou).
With almost half season gone, I think we can be proud of how well how team has competed
If we were 3-0 up I’d be all for it, but I also agree that confidence doesn’t look to be Bayo’s problem at the moment - he just looks absolutely shattered within 15 minutes of kick off.
I think the reason Kashket is getting so much game time at the moment is his pace. At this level he is scarily quick and getting to balls and putting pressure on defenders when he’s no right to even get there. There were 2 or 3 times Saturday when he came from nowhere to challenge a defender.
I remember some years ago an international level defender (can’t remember who) saying that the thing defenders feared most was forwards with pace
@bookertease opponents do seem to play an infeasibly high line against us, perfect for a player with pace, tenacity, quick-witedness and a lethal shot. Kashket has all that, if he'd put those two chances away yesterday people would be talking about him as destined for the Premier League. Miss them and some are suggesting he's dropped.
Personally I've never seen him as the weak link this season, always Bayo. That looks likely to be resolved, injuries to Ikpeazu allowing. But like a few others, I've been disappointed that when Kashket hasn't been firing on all cylinders Fred hasn't been played centrally in his place. He has all the same attributes - minus Kashket's cockiness. Maybe that explains the 'make Fred angry' comment of Bayo's.
Not sure that second chance from Kashket should be lumped in with the first one.
The first one was about as good a chance you'll get in football. 6 yards out - either side of keeper - goal.
The second one came at him very fast and he did well to get his head on it at all I thought.
He has missed a couple of others similar to the first one recently though.
@Commoner, FWIW I'm bemused by the fact the Parker hasn't been given any opportunity! Glad that I don't have to pick the starting 11 each week, but then I don't see the players every day in training either so...
My own feeling is that in many positions our opposition are often 5-10% "better" be that faster, stamina, skillful, clinical finishing, anticipation, positional sense etc.. Over the duration of a game that's what is making the difference in many games so far.
Where I think we have been "better" than many is team spirit and togetherness, although, sadly team spirit and togetherness don't often win games.
I do enjoy watching our players perform to the maximum of their ability. Provided, after 46 games I feel that our players have given 100% then I don't think I can realistically complain even if we don't pick up any more points.
I won't be happy but...
We have the second worst defensive record in the division having conceded 29 goals, one fewer than PNE.