@Erroll_Sims said:
The challenge seems to be without Curtis & Dennis we do not seem to have anyone who is prepared to take the game by the scruff of the neck and try something a little different from the hoof it to Bayo and hope plan A;
In complete agreement with this. As much as I love Dom Gape, when he is on his own in CM he plays into the hit and hope, frantic and often aimless long ball. When Thompson is alongside him we look considerably more assured.
@Erroll_Sims said:
Utterly dire showing - too many starting players look shattered, the only players who come out of that with any credit are Allsop, Grimmer and Knight
I would add McCleary to that trio because, in the second half, he did very well defensively (soft penalty apart) although that is a waste of his skill and pace (is that ok?) going forward.
Sorry to say this, but I think this one was down to GA's poor game plan. How did he ever think a diminutive striker and a (virtually) crippled target man where ever going to win anything in the air against those defenders?
@Erroll_Sims said:
Utterly dire showing - too many starting players look shattered, the only players who come out of that with any credit are Allsop, Grimmer and Knight
I would add McCleary to that trio because, in the second half, he did very well defensively (soft penalty apart) although that is a waste of his skill and pace (is that ok?) going forward.
I thought McCleary was one of the few brighter notes as well. We need to be able to get the ball to him and Horgan on the deck more often.
@Erroll_Sims said:
The challenge seems to be without Curtis & Dennis we do not seem to have anyone who is prepared to take the game by the scruff of the neck and try something a little different from the hoof it to Bayo and hope plan A;
In complete agreement with this. As much as I love Dom Gape, when he is on his own in CM he plays into the hit and hope, frantic and often aimless long ball. When Thompson is alongside him we look considerably more assured.
He didn't look fit either, his passes looked half-powered and he was late in the tackle.
It does seem strange that we brought in two excellent wingers , Horgan and McClearly , but continue to hump the ball forward ( hit and hope) . Why can’t we try to play the ball on the ground sometimes.
Very difficult game on Saturday. We clearly need to change things, but with the injuries it's hard to know what to do. Lot's of thinking for GA and Dobbo in the next couple of days.
Parry ghoulishly taunting fans who have the nerve to question a poor display just made this night even worse. Get back to your vol-au-vents & freebies mate.
Any football fan watching that tonight would have seen a team with absolutely no idea how to switch up a failing tactic. They looked mentally tired too. Is it so wrong to be disappointed with that?
I’ll still be behind the team on Saturday and I’m sure we will come back fighting again.
Saturday is an interesting one, as we have struggled to get any results against Coventry home or away in our previous encounters.
I wonder if Bayo should start on the bench and go for all out pace (Fred/Kashket/McCleary) on Saturday to mix it up. Last season Cov played wing backs and we hadn't a clue how to cope. We need to turn the tables and spring a surprise or two. As someone said above much for the management team to ponder.
@davecz said:
It does seem strange that we brought in two excellent wingers , Horgan and McClearly , but continue to hump the ball forward ( hit and hope) . Why can’t we try to play the ball on the ground sometimes.
I think it was in the expectation that we might occasionally see a mobile target man on the pitch, namely Uche, sharing the load with Bayo.
@kiscokid said:
Parry ghoulishly taunting fans who have the nerve to question a poor display just made this night even worse. Get back to your vol-au-vents & freebies mate.
Any football fan watching that tonight would have seen a team with absolutely no idea how to switch up a failing tactic. They looked mentally tired too. Is it so wrong to be disappointed with that?
I’ll still be behind the team on Saturday and I’m sure we will come back fighting again.
Gareth just said in his post match interview that we switched to a front three at half time, but it looked like 433 from the off to me, and once again we get exploited on the counter attack when opponents launch quick balls down the channels into acres of space. That led to both of their goals. McCarthy was horribly out of position for the first, let the ball sail over him and Styles had so much room. It's painful to watch and let's not pretend every opposition manager doesn't know exactly how to get goals against us.
The other thing they know they need to do is smother Bayo and wait for his flick-on, if he gets the ball, to fly into empty space. Moving Kashket and McCleary closer to him worked for a bit, but still didn't lead to any shots. How many minutes has Bayo played this season now? Must be 1000 or so. When he's on the pitch every Wycombe player is instructed to launch the ball to him yet how many chances has that led to?
It's time to play another way. Not leave ourselves so predictable to play against. Utilise the width of the pitch and the talented wingers we've amassed. Shake things up. Show we can compete.
It starts Saturday, when hopefully Adeniran will be ready to start alongside Gape in a proper 442. Wheeler back up front with either Kashket or Fred. Horgan and McCleary on the wings. Parker and Freeman given a chance from the bench. Let's try to show we belong at this level.
@aloysius I think that's an accurate assessment of tonight, but not necessarily the season. We have played well with Bayo in the side and we have created chances. Preston on Saturday is a prime example. We will need to change things on Saturday there's no doubt about that and from the GA comments I've seen, he's acknowledged that.
Missed Anthony Stewart at the back immensely tonight, but pretty much everything we tried to do going forward was immediately shut down by Barnsley's excellent defence. One of the problems is we often need too much time and too many touches to get the ball under control, and consequently lose it too many times when we really shouldn't. We also attempt passes to players without really being aware of defenders nipping in to intercept. That's when the step up in quality from last season becomes really evident. Championship players think quicker, react quicker, and if you don't do the same you lose out.
@aloysius said:
When he's on the pitch every Wycombe player is instructed to launch the ball to him yet how many chances has that led to?
Quite a lot, he's by far our most creative player. Have done some analysis on this recently, although it's probably not of interest on here.
But how much is that skewed by the management instructions that almost every attack is started through a long ball to Bayo?
Perhaps more interesting would be the proportion of shots on goal from attacks involving Bayo compared with shots on goal from those excluding him (while he is on the pitch)
@aloysius said:
When he's on the pitch every Wycombe player is instructed to launch the ball to him yet how many chances has that led to?
Quite a lot, he's by far our most creative player. Have done some analysis on this recently, although it's probably not of interest on here.
But how much is that skewed by the management instructions that almost every attack is started through a long ball to Bayo?
Perhaps more interesting would be the proportion of shots on goal from attacks involving Bayo compared with shots on goal from those excluding him (while he is on the pitch)
It is bound to be a bit skewed, but it tends to work. Tonight was just a stretch too far for him and I do worry what state he's going to end up in.
I'd be interested in that too, although it would take an age to work out from scratch.
I'd still prefer a relatively fit Bayo for half of each game than a knackered Bayo for full games.
Again, to me the main disappointment is an apparent failure to diagnose what was going wrong, and how to fix it. To me the process would be:
Problem #1: Long ball not working against 8 foot defenders.
Problem #2: Our players cannot get a foot on the ball.
Problem #3: Bayo looks knackered before halftime.
Possible solution: Bring on players who are more confident on the ball.
Bench assessment: Freeman and Mehmeti fit the profile.
Action: Bring on ne or both of them on either at halftime or soon after.
Instead, the solution seemed to be "open another can of hoof". We did win the penalty from a longball, and perhaps that reinforced the idea that if we hoof enough, something will give. But to me, it was the definition of madness. We should have gratefully taken that gift of an equalizer and still changed it up.
One silver lining: JJ gets a Championship goal. One of my hopes for this season is that as many players as possible manage that, no matter what.
@NewburyWanderer said:
We also attempt passes to players without really being aware of defenders nipping in to intercept. That's when the step up in quality from last season becomes really evident. Championship players think quicker, react quicker, and if you don't do the same you lose out.
I've been wondering whether we've actually missed Tafazolli a lot more than we realise. He should hopefully have that Championship-level understanding to anticipate opposition gameplay and really help cut down on mistakes (which have begun creeping into Knight's game recently). It would also allow Stewart to play on his natural side when fit and offer real threat from set pieces.
@aloysius said:
When he's on the pitch every Wycombe player is instructed to launch the ball to him yet how many chances has that led to?
Quite a lot, he's by far our most creative player. Have done some analysis on this recently, although it's probably not of interest on here.
But how much is that skewed by the management instructions that almost every attack is started through a long ball to Bayo?
Perhaps more interesting would be the proportion of shots on goal from attacks involving Bayo compared with shots on goal from those excluding him (while he is on the pitch)
It is bound to be a bit skewed, but it tends to work. Tonight was just a stretch too far for him and I do worry what state he's going to end up in.
I'd be interested in that too, although it would take an age to work out from scratch.
If most of our goal kicks, long passes etc are directed to him, as they are, then this statistic would be correct. It doesn't follow though that there is not a better way to use our other midfield and attacking players, other than by just constantly bypassing them and hoofing it to Bayo.
@aloysius said:
When he's on the pitch every Wycombe player is instructed to launch the ball to him yet how many chances has that led to?
Quite a lot, he's by far our most creative player. Have done some analysis on this recently, although it's probably not of interest on here.
But how much is that skewed by the management instructions that almost every attack is started through a long ball to Bayo?
Perhaps more interesting would be the proportion of shots on goal from attacks involving Bayo compared with shots on goal from those excluding him (while he is on the pitch)
It is bound to be a bit skewed, but it tends to work. Tonight was just a stretch too far for him and I do worry what state he's going to end up in.
I'd be interested in that too, although it would take an age to work out from scratch.
I guess we can get an idea at least from our actual goals scored. Including the penalty tonight, the only direct involvement Bayo's had in one, that I can think of at least, was winning the foul that led to Kashket's goal at the weekend.
Saturday was the best we've balanced things between going long to Bayo and playing it on the deck - but even then Bayo was more involved than tonight, because he was in a proper state to start. The sooner Uche is back - and if he's back training on grass then he can't be far off - the better, assuming he stays fit ? We and Bayo should be better off for it.
@chairboyscentral said:
He didn't look fit either, his passes looked half-powered and he was late in the tackle.
Gape can't be match fit. He's hardly played any matches. Add to that having to play central midfield by himself and he's really being asked to do alot.
@chairboyscentral said:
Quite a lot, he's by far our most creative player. Have done some analysis on this recently, although it's probably not of interest on here.
I'd be interested in the analysis. I'd also be interested in how our current playground all chase the ball attacking formation messes up our defensive shape as soon as we lose the ball? We certainly don't feel as solid defensively but is that Thompson's absence or the inclusion if so many wingers?
Comments
In complete agreement with this. As much as I love Dom Gape, when he is on his own in CM he plays into the hit and hope, frantic and often aimless long ball. When Thompson is alongside him we look considerably more assured.
Best thing to do after a game like that is just look forward to the next one.
We've generally been pretty good under Gaz at reacting to poor performances.
Saturday is another day and there will be 2,000 of us there cheering us on. Something to look forward to
I would add McCleary to that trio because, in the second half, he did very well defensively (soft penalty apart) although that is a waste of his skill and pace (is that ok?) going forward.
Never mind, we can instantly move on to fretting about ticketing websites tomorrow. Sleep well everyone.
Sorry to say this, but I think this one was down to GA's poor game plan. How did he ever think a diminutive striker and a (virtually) crippled target man where ever going to win anything in the air against those defenders?
I thought McCleary was one of the few brighter notes as well. We need to be able to get the ball to him and Horgan on the deck more often.
We won 30 to their 29 (Bayo only won 9/19), which seems pretty low to me. Put it this way: Bayo alone contested 38 headers against Birmingham.
He didn't look fit either, his passes looked half-powered and he was late in the tackle.
It does seem strange that we brought in two excellent wingers , Horgan and McClearly , but continue to hump the ball forward ( hit and hope) . Why can’t we try to play the ball on the ground sometimes.
Very difficult game on Saturday. We clearly need to change things, but with the injuries it's hard to know what to do. Lot's of thinking for GA and Dobbo in the next couple of days.
He can hardly be match fit after three and a half games (?) this season.
Parry ghoulishly taunting fans who have the nerve to question a poor display just made this night even worse. Get back to your vol-au-vents & freebies mate.
Any football fan watching that tonight would have seen a team with absolutely no idea how to switch up a failing tactic. They looked mentally tired too. Is it so wrong to be disappointed with that?
I’ll still be behind the team on Saturday and I’m sure we will come back fighting again.
Saturday is an interesting one, as we have struggled to get any results against Coventry home or away in our previous encounters.
I wonder if Bayo should start on the bench and go for all out pace (Fred/Kashket/McCleary) on Saturday to mix it up. Last season Cov played wing backs and we hadn't a clue how to cope. We need to turn the tables and spring a surprise or two. As someone said above much for the management team to ponder.
I think it was in the expectation that we might occasionally see a mobile target man on the pitch, namely Uche, sharing the load with Bayo.
There we go
Totally agree . Fans have the right to comment.
Gareth just said in his post match interview that we switched to a front three at half time, but it looked like 433 from the off to me, and once again we get exploited on the counter attack when opponents launch quick balls down the channels into acres of space. That led to both of their goals. McCarthy was horribly out of position for the first, let the ball sail over him and Styles had so much room. It's painful to watch and let's not pretend every opposition manager doesn't know exactly how to get goals against us.
The other thing they know they need to do is smother Bayo and wait for his flick-on, if he gets the ball, to fly into empty space. Moving Kashket and McCleary closer to him worked for a bit, but still didn't lead to any shots. How many minutes has Bayo played this season now? Must be 1000 or so. When he's on the pitch every Wycombe player is instructed to launch the ball to him yet how many chances has that led to?
It's time to play another way. Not leave ourselves so predictable to play against. Utilise the width of the pitch and the talented wingers we've amassed. Shake things up. Show we can compete.
It starts Saturday, when hopefully Adeniran will be ready to start alongside Gape in a proper 442. Wheeler back up front with either Kashket or Fred. Horgan and McCleary on the wings. Parker and Freeman given a chance from the bench. Let's try to show we belong at this level.
I assume they'll be arguing with @glasshalffull shortly about how they can't have an opinion. Night all.
F*** me I was joking! Sometimes the Gasroom eats itself!?
Quite a lot, he's by far our most creative player. Have done some analysis on this recently, although it's probably not of interest on here.
@aloysius I think that's an accurate assessment of tonight, but not necessarily the season. We have played well with Bayo in the side and we have created chances. Preston on Saturday is a prime example. We will need to change things on Saturday there's no doubt about that and from the GA comments I've seen, he's acknowledged that.
Missed Anthony Stewart at the back immensely tonight, but pretty much everything we tried to do going forward was immediately shut down by Barnsley's excellent defence. One of the problems is we often need too much time and too many touches to get the ball under control, and consequently lose it too many times when we really shouldn't. We also attempt passes to players without really being aware of defenders nipping in to intercept. That's when the step up in quality from last season becomes really evident. Championship players think quicker, react quicker, and if you don't do the same you lose out.
But how much is that skewed by the management instructions that almost every attack is started through a long ball to Bayo?
Perhaps more interesting would be the proportion of shots on goal from attacks involving Bayo compared with shots on goal from those excluding him (while he is on the pitch)
It is bound to be a bit skewed, but it tends to work. Tonight was just a stretch too far for him and I do worry what state he's going to end up in.
I'd be interested in that too, although it would take an age to work out from scratch.
Sorry, I say it was just a stretch too far, but Barnsley defended excellently - not sure a sharp Bayo would have had a huge impact tonight.
I'd still prefer a relatively fit Bayo for half of each game than a knackered Bayo for full games.
Again, to me the main disappointment is an apparent failure to diagnose what was going wrong, and how to fix it. To me the process would be:
Problem #1: Long ball not working against 8 foot defenders.
Problem #2: Our players cannot get a foot on the ball.
Problem #3: Bayo looks knackered before halftime.
Possible solution: Bring on players who are more confident on the ball.
Bench assessment: Freeman and Mehmeti fit the profile.
Action: Bring on ne or both of them on either at halftime or soon after.
Instead, the solution seemed to be "open another can of hoof". We did win the penalty from a longball, and perhaps that reinforced the idea that if we hoof enough, something will give. But to me, it was the definition of madness. We should have gratefully taken that gift of an equalizer and still changed it up.
One silver lining: JJ gets a Championship goal. One of my hopes for this season is that as many players as possible manage that, no matter what.
I've been wondering whether we've actually missed Tafazolli a lot more than we realise. He should hopefully have that Championship-level understanding to anticipate opposition gameplay and really help cut down on mistakes (which have begun creeping into Knight's game recently). It would also allow Stewart to play on his natural side when fit and offer real threat from set pieces.
If most of our goal kicks, long passes etc are directed to him, as they are, then this statistic would be correct. It doesn't follow though that there is not a better way to use our other midfield and attacking players, other than by just constantly bypassing them and hoofing it to Bayo.
I guess we can get an idea at least from our actual goals scored. Including the penalty tonight, the only direct involvement Bayo's had in one, that I can think of at least, was winning the foul that led to Kashket's goal at the weekend.
Saturday was the best we've balanced things between going long to Bayo and playing it on the deck - but even then Bayo was more involved than tonight, because he was in a proper state to start. The sooner Uche is back - and if he's back training on grass then he can't be far off - the better, assuming he stays fit ? We and Bayo should be better off for it.
Gape can't be match fit. He's hardly played any matches. Add to that having to play central midfield by himself and he's really being asked to do alot.
I'd be interested in the analysis. I'd also be interested in how our current playground all chase the ball attacking formation messes up our defensive shape as soon as we lose the ball? We certainly don't feel as solid defensively but is that Thompson's absence or the inclusion if so many wingers?