I do wonder about the big club bias. It could be the referees feel less accountable when giving decions against smaller clubs. I'm sure they'd be much more of a furore if those calls were made against Norwich, I doubt it'll warrant a mention in most media outlets being they were given against Wycombe. In fairness, maybe they have to put up with the same thing in the Prem?
@Wycombe85 said:
I do wonder about the big club bias. It could be the referees feel less accountable when giving decions against smaller clubs. I'm sure they'd be much more of a furore if those calls were made against Norwich, I doubt it'll warrant a mention in most media outlets being they were given against Wycombe. In fairness, maybe they have to put up with the same thing in the Prem?
There must be a subconscious knowledge that you're less likely to get roasted for braver decisions against a small team.
But with no crowds you'd have thought the crowd pressure element would go at least.
I just put it down to breath-taking low standards of reffing which is quite an indictment for tier 2.
Our luck is mad this season. The JJ goal for one thing. When do you ever see a linesman actually making a big call like that?!
For sure, there's a heck of a lot of guessing going on. No way, for example, did the lino see a foul on the keeper last week. And today's free kick likewise. Guessing.
However, it's nothing new. We got a lot of marginal calls go our way last year, for example...
I think there is often a ‘home team’ bias from any ref. The ref will watch that back and he will see that he had a poor game on some key decisions. I don’t think his assistants helped much either as the Fred Penalty decision was on the lino’s side and he didn’t seem to offer an opinion.
@Forest_Blue said:
I think there is often a ‘home team’ bias from any ref. The ref will watch that back and he will see that he had a poor game on some key decisions. I don’t think his assistants helped much either as the Fred Penalty decision was on the lino’s side and he didn’t seem to offer an opinion.
We needed that bloody nosey lino from the JJ corner game!
Better again but still second best even accounting for a horrendous homer referee, they should have scored a couple more regardless with the chances they fashioned.
Think I've already written this season off as a good cash builder and nothing else, even good championship teams would struggle after our start
With not being able to go to any games it all feels so distant and it's thoroughly depressing knowing that the one chance we might have had to have a season of top away days happens to have fallen during a pandemic.
Any "fortune" we banked last year with not having to play the season out, which was a real bun fight where we could have snuck 2nd, but could also have missed the playoffs completely - is certainly being taken back by fate this season, to say the least!
I couldn't resist a little look at Rotherham's miserable 23 point season.
They had a 7 game run of defeats early doors, and also a 10 game run late on, which was part of a 14 defeats in 15 run!
21 away defeats amongst 33 losses all in.
@chairboyscentral said:
We're only four points from safety and now competing, still very premature to write us off.
Course that's down to everyone to make their own judgement, but as sure as I was last season that we would stay in the promotion race after our good start, I'm sure we're not going to get remotely close to staying up without something massive happening this season(multiple clubs going under type thing).
Competing is definitely an improvement, but it still looks like a lower league side playing a cup game against a "big team" in the whole pattern of play... In the league. That's never ever going to get a team close to staying up over the course of a season, but I can't really see anything more that GA can do... The gulf in quality is just too much to bridge by getting 100% from the players and being well drilled. My biggest hope is that heads don't drop... Which I'm sure they won't with GA in charge, but if this run goes to 9,10 games without a win and we take another heavy beating or two then that would happen to most teams
Obviously you leave yourself with a bit of a mountain to climb after a start like ours, but you could have a run like this at any stage - and we have the mitigation of being total newcomers off the back of a short pre-season, and multiple key players missing for all or most of the season so far. I'll worry if we're still sat on 0 in 3 games' time. Luton had runs of 5 straight losses and 8 losses in 9 last season.
As for Barnsley, they won their opener then went SEVENTEEN without a win - and even without Wigan's deduction, they'd have only gone down by a point. It's entirely doable. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm more positive than I was before the start of the season (I predicted we'd come 23rd).
While it's certainly easy to see the situation as hopeless at times, away to Norwich probably isn't the game to give it all up.
However, it's certainly going to take that level of performance today, opposition being a good chunk off their top levels, AND luck coming back to us at key moments to get points rocking.
@chairboyscentral said:
Obviously you leave yourself with a bit of a mountain to climb after a start like ours, but you could have a run like this at any stage - and we have the mitigation of being total newcomers off the back of a short pre-season, and multiple key players missing for all or most of the season so far. I'll worry if we're still sat on 0 in 3 games' time. Luton had runs of 5 straight losses and 8 losses in 9 last season.
Until we win a game it's not so much a run of form as just not being up to the standard.
Fingers crossed I'm well wide of the mark, but I don't think anyone that's a football neutral could have watched any of our games bar Rotherham and not thought that we were at least 1 division lower, maybe 2.
Tbh, our last three games have been narrow (and, in today's case, harsh) defeats against sides I'd expect to be challenging for the top six. We've played very well in the last two particularly.
Ok, we were our own worst enemies against Rotherham and that wasn't good enough, but we've only looked out of place against Blackburn and Swansea - both games in which we got the set-up badly wrong (ok, second half v Swansea was better, but the damage had been done). Luton was ok, but we still weren't as good as we could have been.
But since Millwall, we've looked like we belong imo.
We've competed well in our last four games, and would have got something out of three of them if not for some absurd refereeing. You are, indeed, well wide of the mark.
The thing is, Ward has always been a dugmeat referee, we've had him in L2 and he's been woeful so why is he refereeing in the second tier. Unlike us who earned our place here, it seems below the PL it really is a collection of awful officials. I remember Madley who disallowed JJs corner goal v Millwall ludicrously ruling out a perfect Bayo goal at L2 level. You really wonder how these refs are deemed good enough to be operating in the second tier.
Until we win a game it's not so much a run of form as just not being up to the standard.
Fingers crossed I'm well wide of the mark, but I don't think anyone that's a football neutral could have watched any of our games bar Rotherham and not thought that we were at least 1 division lower, maybe 2.
I think you are well wide of the mark. To suggest that we were two divisions inferior to some of our opponents is both inaccurate and unfair. We have got steadily better and if it hadn’t been for poor refereeing decisions we would now be sitting on 3-6 points.
Listened to BBC Radio Norfolk commentary. They said Wycombe's performance against them was better than Derby and Birmingham. The latter just parking the bus.
I would suggest our players may not be the 'best' in the division but I still think the team once they get a grip on the league have enough to survive...if that makes sense. We will be a better side when Norwich come to AP and when the cup starts and the battle for the Prem starts, 'better' sides will be under more pressure than we will. Still all to play for.
I am encouraged by the positive attitude of the majority.
The pessimism of the minority is unfounded when there are still so many points to logorrhoea.
Comments
How many years into the gasroom will it be before you recognise snipe artists and trolls?!
Ignore button mate.
Myself and @Right_in_the_Middle who certainly don't agree on everything, definitely agree on this one.
Different post match argument tonight? No idea why as I think the starter is someone I blocked long ago.
Still annoyed by the injustice of today and why referees are so protected despite the video analysis on TV and on social media after every match
100% agree. Was really affecting my mental health with his constant bullying. Much much happier now.
I do wonder about the big club bias. It could be the referees feel less accountable when giving decions against smaller clubs. I'm sure they'd be much more of a furore if those calls were made against Norwich, I doubt it'll warrant a mention in most media outlets being they were given against Wycombe. In fairness, maybe they have to put up with the same thing in the Prem?
There must be a subconscious knowledge that you're less likely to get roasted for braver decisions against a small team.
But with no crowds you'd have thought the crowd pressure element would go at least.
I just put it down to breath-taking low standards of reffing which is quite an indictment for tier 2.
Our luck is mad this season. The JJ goal for one thing. When do you ever see a linesman actually making a big call like that?!
Could lack of crowds actually be making them worse? Some might perform better under the pressure of a crowd. I don't know, just theorising.
Like, maybe they're making big calls they wouldn't normally risk - but a lot of them are guesses.
For sure, there's a heck of a lot of guessing going on. No way, for example, did the lino see a foul on the keeper last week. And today's free kick likewise. Guessing.
However, it's nothing new. We got a lot of marginal calls go our way last year, for example...
that result was a killer....what a point that would of been ....how is Uche play ? any news on Gaoe at all?
I think there is often a ‘home team’ bias from any ref. The ref will watch that back and he will see that he had a poor game on some key decisions. I don’t think his assistants helped much either as the Fred Penalty decision was on the lino’s side and he didn’t seem to offer an opinion.
We needed that bloody nosey lino from the JJ corner game!
Better again but still second best even accounting for a horrendous homer referee, they should have scored a couple more regardless with the chances they fashioned.
Think I've already written this season off as a good cash builder and nothing else, even good championship teams would struggle after our start
With not being able to go to any games it all feels so distant and it's thoroughly depressing knowing that the one chance we might have had to have a season of top away days happens to have fallen during a pandemic.
We're only four points from safety and now competing, still very premature to write us off.
Any "fortune" we banked last year with not having to play the season out, which was a real bun fight where we could have snuck 2nd, but could also have missed the playoffs completely - is certainly being taken back by fate this season, to say the least!
I couldn't resist a little look at Rotherham's miserable 23 point season.
They had a 7 game run of defeats early doors, and also a 10 game run late on, which was part of a 14 defeats in 15 run!
21 away defeats amongst 33 losses all in.
They had 6 points after 7 games though.
Rotherham were back in the championship a year after 23pointsgate. I'll take that.
Course that's down to everyone to make their own judgement, but as sure as I was last season that we would stay in the promotion race after our good start, I'm sure we're not going to get remotely close to staying up without something massive happening this season(multiple clubs going under type thing).
Competing is definitely an improvement, but it still looks like a lower league side playing a cup game against a "big team" in the whole pattern of play... In the league. That's never ever going to get a team close to staying up over the course of a season, but I can't really see anything more that GA can do... The gulf in quality is just too much to bridge by getting 100% from the players and being well drilled. My biggest hope is that heads don't drop... Which I'm sure they won't with GA in charge, but if this run goes to 9,10 games without a win and we take another heavy beating or two then that would happen to most teams
Obviously you leave yourself with a bit of a mountain to climb after a start like ours, but you could have a run like this at any stage - and we have the mitigation of being total newcomers off the back of a short pre-season, and multiple key players missing for all or most of the season so far. I'll worry if we're still sat on 0 in 3 games' time. Luton had runs of 5 straight losses and 8 losses in 9 last season.
As for Barnsley, they won their opener then went SEVENTEEN without a win - and even without Wigan's deduction, they'd have only gone down by a point. It's entirely doable. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm more positive than I was before the start of the season (I predicted we'd come 23rd).
While it's certainly easy to see the situation as hopeless at times, away to Norwich probably isn't the game to give it all up.
However, it's certainly going to take that level of performance today, opposition being a good chunk off their top levels, AND luck coming back to us at key moments to get points rocking.
Until we win a game it's not so much a run of form as just not being up to the standard.
Fingers crossed I'm well wide of the mark, but I don't think anyone that's a football neutral could have watched any of our games bar Rotherham and not thought that we were at least 1 division lower, maybe 2.
Tbh, our last three games have been narrow (and, in today's case, harsh) defeats against sides I'd expect to be challenging for the top six. We've played very well in the last two particularly.
Ok, we were our own worst enemies against Rotherham and that wasn't good enough, but we've only looked out of place against Blackburn and Swansea - both games in which we got the set-up badly wrong (ok, second half v Swansea was better, but the damage had been done). Luton was ok, but we still weren't as good as we could have been.
But since Millwall, we've looked like we belong imo.
We've competed well in our last four games, and would have got something out of three of them if not for some absurd refereeing. You are, indeed, well wide of the mark.
The thing is, Ward has always been a dugmeat referee, we've had him in L2 and he's been woeful so why is he refereeing in the second tier. Unlike us who earned our place here, it seems below the PL it really is a collection of awful officials. I remember Madley who disallowed JJs corner goal v Millwall ludicrously ruling out a perfect Bayo goal at L2 level. You really wonder how these refs are deemed good enough to be operating in the second tier.
Probably because refereeing is hard.
In which future games, against which club(s), would we want the referee to make a wrong decision in our favour?
Can I suggest the pnl if they make the 3rd round of the FA Cup, but Plymouth would be funnier.
I think you are well wide of the mark. To suggest that we were two divisions inferior to some of our opponents is both inaccurate and unfair. We have got steadily better and if it hadn’t been for poor refereeing decisions we would now be sitting on 3-6 points.
Listened to BBC Radio Norfolk commentary. They said Wycombe's performance against them was better than Derby and Birmingham. The latter just parking the bus.
I would suggest our players may not be the 'best' in the division but I still think the team once they get a grip on the league have enough to survive...if that makes sense. We will be a better side when Norwich come to AP and when the cup starts and the battle for the Prem starts, 'better' sides will be under more pressure than we will. Still all to play for.
I am encouraged by the positive attitude of the majority.
The pessimism of the minority is unfounded when there are still so many points to logorrhoea.