The idea of giving higher weight to results against stronger opponents as suggested in the tweet above is actually a recognised method of tie-break in international team chess ( Sonneborn-Berger method).
Surely only League One and Two clubs get a vote on it? Why should Championship clubs get a vote if they play on and have no need to decide on how to settle their season?
Most of the supporters of our fellow League 1 clubs won't want to watch our cheating shithousery tactics again next season so would be happy to see us go up.. However, I suspect their managers and coaching staff would consider that Oxford are a much harder option next season so would want them to go up.
Thinking about it I would have thought most of discussion would be around whether to stop and if so whether to ppg. If management board recommend a Ppg method, I expect most clubs would then agree.
I feel sorry for whichever one of us misses out. I know we are supposed to hate Oxford, but this whole PPG situation has both clubs going through the mill.
I wish we were able to have a one-off game at Wembley to decide it!
Whatever happens it will be a disappointing end to a great season for me. Can we get the Chinese government to give us all a bung to help us start the next season in style. It is all their fault after all.
Yes, even if we had missed out after 44 games, it would have been exciting no matter what. We have been robbed of some great memories. Celebrating PPG over a newspaper and cereal doesn't have the same romance.
@Shev said:
Yes, even if we had missed out after 44 games, it would have been exciting no matter what. We have been robbed of some great memories. Celebrating PPG over a newspaper and cereal doesn't have the same romance.
It was all bubbling up to a really exciting conclusion, automatic promotion was still doable, yet definitely being in the playoffs was no given.
But that run of fixtures at the end looked promising.
For it all to be decided in some behind closed doors discussions is a rubbish end. Made even worse if Oxford do get the nod.
There are also some cracking takes on Twitter such as:
"If Coventry, Rotherham and Oxford go up, you can't complain as they are the best 3 teams in the league."
And "If Wycombe Wanderers are somehow promoted to the Championship it will be the greatest act of shithousery of all time."
I think some people forget that the only reason Oxford are even above us in the league table is down to the fixture list - they simply won a game on the last available gameweek where we didn't have a game.
With there being no truly fair way to settle this (even voiding or ending the season punishes success and rewards failure), it is natural for different fan bases and clubs to desire an outcome that suits their team.
That being said, PPG is a model being applied elsewhere. It is based on what has happened, not what might happen. So we are not exactly stretching to make the point that we merit 3rd place.
As someone said on here, I think a lot of clubs are concerned about the look of a team jumping from 8th to 3rd, compared to the spots staying the same. Also, clubs are more likely to just look at our name and size and think it is better to keep us in L1 (however incorrectly).
I do think the vote will go Oxford's way, but it is a no-win for us. If we miss out, it feels like robbery, using a different model than other leagues. If we go up, it will feel strange (though I will still celebrate), and all we may get for our troubles is a truncated Championship season behind closed doors, while everyone grumbles that we "should not be there in the first place" (though I don't care so much about that).
Does anyone know how the vote actually works? Are teams asked to vote on every conceivable solution or just a shortlist? Because the weighted PPG suggestion is such blatant self-serving behaviour that it really ought to be thrown straight out.
To be honest, now we've got a taste of the aggro that's to come, I'm thinking null and void isn't such a bad idea after all.
I still don’t see the point in rushing to a conclusion to this season when there is surely almost no prospect of the next one starting in August. If and when we can commence a 2020/21 season it will be played under a cloud with every team knowing that a flare up in the virus will lead to another season ended on some ludicrous mathematical model.
As other leagues in Europe and Scotland have used the PPG system, couldnt Rick Parry just do a Pontious Pilot stance, and let UEFA make that a blanket rule for unfinished leagues ?
Surely would lower the risk of legal action.
Just to be clear, have all the other leagues used the straight forward PPG?
It'd be our classic English arrogance to think we need to do a more special method, just like we thought we'd do VAR in a way that made the ref look totally powerless, versus the check the monitor option everyone else uses.
What I truly don't understand is why the EFL are currently still not admitting that the season is over, while at the same time saying the play-offs couldn't be completed under any scenario.
The play-offs would only be another 5 matches per division whereas currently to complete the season requires about 100 matches per division.
Surely a compromise is to use PPG, weighted or otherwise, to determine positions and then to have a televised BCD play-off competition?
@Twizz, a one off promotion game between us and the Ox would be interesting, but I dare say would still lead to loads of "why are this team currently in 8th, involved".
A huge amount of football fans are very hard of thinking so wouldn't get it at all.
And I dare say we're only considering this as we're now thinking we have a big chance of missing out!
I though do look forward to reading those Oxford forums if we do get the nod, they've been so smug.
Comments
Oxford are a joke in so many ways. Would be quite fitting for them to get promoted on the basis of a quirky mathematical calculation
The idea of giving higher weight to results against stronger opponents as suggested in the tweet above is actually a recognised method of tie-break in international team chess ( Sonneborn-Berger method).
Surely only League One and Two clubs get a vote on it? Why should Championship clubs get a vote if they play on and have no need to decide on how to settle their season?
Most of the supporters of our fellow League 1 clubs won't want to watch our cheating shithousery tactics again next season so would be happy to see us go up.. However, I suspect their managers and coaching staff would consider that Oxford are a much harder option next season so would want them to go up.
Thinking about it I would have thought most of discussion would be around whether to stop and if so whether to ppg. If management board recommend a Ppg method, I expect most clubs would then agree.
I feel sorry for whichever one of us misses out. I know we are supposed to hate Oxford, but this whole PPG situation has both clubs going through the mill.
I wish we were able to have a one-off game at Wembley to decide it!
Playing games to decide who goes up. Why has this radical idea not been thought of before?
Would be a perfect pre Christmas treat with a pre season league cup behind closed doors to warm up
Deal with Oxford? We agree to support their scheme but we split the tv and prem money 50-50?
Let them have it.
Who seriously wants to go up like this?
I don't mind not going up as long as it doesn't feel like we've been shafted.
Whatever happens it will be a disappointing end to a great season for me. Can we get the Chinese government to give us all a bung to help us start the next season in style. It is all their fault after all.
@chairboyscentral , are you "Wanderer" on the Oxford forum?
Amazingly, they seem convinced that the way that benefits them is the right way to sort it out.
One chump described us as their "Non league" neighbours.
Did he miss them being non league for quite a while, not so long ago?
Yes, even if we had missed out after 44 games, it would have been exciting no matter what. We have been robbed of some great memories. Celebrating PPG over a newspaper and cereal doesn't have the same romance.
It was all bubbling up to a really exciting conclusion, automatic promotion was still doable, yet definitely being in the playoffs was no given.
But that run of fixtures at the end looked promising.
For it all to be decided in some behind closed doors discussions is a rubbish end. Made even worse if Oxford do get the nod.
Lol, I'm afraid not.
Had your style of discussion.
But I did wonder why someone would undertake such a pointless task as arguing it on their site!
One Headington fan did complain to me earlier that we'd played Bolton's kids. Original... Also not true.
There are also some cracking takes on Twitter such as:
"If Coventry, Rotherham and Oxford go up, you can't complain as they are the best 3 teams in the league."
And "If Wycombe Wanderers are somehow promoted to the Championship it will be the greatest act of shithousery of all time."
I think some people forget that the only reason Oxford are even above us in the league table is down to the fixture list - they simply won a game on the last available gameweek where we didn't have a game.
With there being no truly fair way to settle this (even voiding or ending the season punishes success and rewards failure), it is natural for different fan bases and clubs to desire an outcome that suits their team.
That being said, PPG is a model being applied elsewhere. It is based on what has happened, not what might happen. So we are not exactly stretching to make the point that we merit 3rd place.
As someone said on here, I think a lot of clubs are concerned about the look of a team jumping from 8th to 3rd, compared to the spots staying the same. Also, clubs are more likely to just look at our name and size and think it is better to keep us in L1 (however incorrectly).
I do think the vote will go Oxford's way, but it is a no-win for us. If we miss out, it feels like robbery, using a different model than other leagues. If we go up, it will feel strange (though I will still celebrate), and all we may get for our troubles is a truncated Championship season behind closed doors, while everyone grumbles that we "should not be there in the first place" (though I don't care so much about that).
.
.
Does anyone know how the vote actually works? Are teams asked to vote on every conceivable solution or just a shortlist? Because the weighted PPG suggestion is such blatant self-serving behaviour that it really ought to be thrown straight out.
To be honest, now we've got a taste of the aggro that's to come, I'm thinking null and void isn't such a bad idea after all.
I still don’t see the point in rushing to a conclusion to this season when there is surely almost no prospect of the next one starting in August. If and when we can commence a 2020/21 season it will be played under a cloud with every team knowing that a flare up in the virus will lead to another season ended on some ludicrous mathematical model.
As other leagues in Europe and Scotland have used the PPG system, couldnt Rick Parry just do a Pontious Pilot stance, and let UEFA make that a blanket rule for unfinished leagues ?
Surely would lower the risk of legal action.
Just to be clear, have all the other leagues used the straight forward PPG?
It'd be our classic English arrogance to think we need to do a more special method, just like we thought we'd do VAR in a way that made the ref look totally powerless, versus the check the monitor option everyone else uses.
What I truly don't understand is why the EFL are currently still not admitting that the season is over, while at the same time saying the play-offs couldn't be completed under any scenario.
The play-offs would only be another 5 matches per division whereas currently to complete the season requires about 100 matches per division.
Surely a compromise is to use PPG, weighted or otherwise, to determine positions and then to have a televised BCD play-off competition?
Has anyone seen this suggested?
@Twizz, a one off promotion game between us and the Ox would be interesting, but I dare say would still lead to loads of "why are this team currently in 8th, involved".
A huge amount of football fans are very hard of thinking so wouldn't get it at all.
And I dare say we're only considering this as we're now thinking we have a big chance of missing out!
I though do look forward to reading those Oxford forums if we do get the nod, they've been so smug.
One described our "conference ground".
So deluded they haven't noticed that theirs probably isn't even that level, with 3 sides!?
Monkey Tennis?
Ah. Nostalgia. How I miss those debates and doesn’t it seem to be such a long time ago now