Well if poxford were to be promoted they would always have the shame of not actually being promoted correctly . The bonus would be if they go straight down again and we are promoted on merit next season.
@OX66 said:
Well if poxford were to be promoted they would always have the shame of not actually being promoted correctly . The bonus would be if they go straight down again and we are promoted on merit next season.
Indeed. As has been said, promotion by maths followed by a season of matches you can’t attend followed by relation would be grim. So us going up as champions with a business plan to survive in ‘21 as Oxford return to league 1 would, in some ways, be sweeter.
All of these clearly partisan ideas for ending the season leads me to propose the only possible objective formula:
PPG x number of shirt quarters x fans who would not want to watch every week + bonus point for male names in stadium name + bonus point for grammatical exactitude of fan forum x drum disputes x red kites + bonus point for single access road.
On such a fair an objective method, we would squeeze into first place with around 342,564 points.
Would anyone seriously like to be promoted in all this?
When there's talk of football being behind closed doors until Jan?
What joy is there in watching your, underfunded team due to a worldwide pandemic, head to clubs competing for the top division, and being potentially drubbed every week on iFollow?
@OX66 said:
Well if poxford were to be promoted they would always have the shame of not actually being promoted correctly . The bonus would be if they go straight down again and we are promoted on merit next season.
Indeed. As has been said, promotion by maths followed by a season of matches you can’t attend followed by relation would be grim. So us going up as champions with a business plan to survive in ‘21 as Oxford return to league 1 would, in some ways, be sweeter.
I think i'd still choose to go up this season and bank that championship money, even if we're terrible for a season.
As long as we don't boot it into a range of 10k a week players, it should serve us better all in.
You can't go off current standings for the games in hand element, so PPG seems the only sensible way of conducting things.
To then warp it into biasing away games seems mad.
Why not bias it further depending on the position of each team faced as well. That little twist might tweak the order again.
And so on.
Is it not inconceivable that we finish the season, after Christmas, and add a British cup to the FA Cup. As their is little glory or solace in football when your peers or neighbours are dying.
And in the meantime people stand up to sky sports money back demands.
That really is football coming home !!
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Why just sitting tight and waiting is so hard I'll never know.
I think because reality is starting to bite. L1 and L2 clubs can't afford to play behind closed doors and fans aren't going to be allowed into grounds anytime soon. Player contracts are up at the end of next month and clubs need to work out how they're going to survive the next 6-12 months. Sitting tight and waiting isn't an option unless someone is going to throw a load of money into L1 and L2 to keep clubs afloat, so ending the season really becomes the only option.
I don't think this home/away PPG thing is as terrible as some are saying, insofar as it's no worse than any of the other ideas that anyone's come up with.
I suppose the point I'm making is they are all as bad as one another. The only fair way of deciding a league is after everyone has played everyone else twice. Anything else doesn't and can't take into account who you have played or are yet to play, much less intangible and unquantifiable factors like runs of form etc
What would be really interesting, if someone could be bothered to do it (disclaimer: I absolutely can't) would be to retrospectively apply this, and perhaps absolute PPG calculations to the league tables at this stage during the last x number of seasons and see how accurate the calculated final tables are compared to the actual final table
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Why just sitting tight and waiting is so hard I'll never know.
I think because reality is starting to bite. L1 and L2 clubs can't afford to play behind closed doors and fans aren't going to be allowed into grounds anytime soon. Player contracts are up at the end of next month and clubs need to work out how they're going to survive the next 6-12 months. Sitting tight and waiting isn't an option unless someone is going to throw a load of money into L1 and L2 to keep clubs afloat, so ending the season really becomes the only option.
Sorry but isn't that just a fact of life for every person, business, charity or sports club? We all need financial support as revenue and wages stop. I don't see how stopping makes life any easier. Clubs will sign new players in anticipation of a season at some point in the future. They will want to be paid?
When football returns with crowds it needs a massive initial boost. Surely playing the last games of this season is of more interest than the first few of a next when their is no guarantee that will be played to a finish either.
Just wait and see what happens. Why make assumptions and not actually solving anything
@chairboyscentral good work and surely shows that in the last 10 games of the season teams at the bottom get on rolls and can save themselves from nowhere. Stopping teams from doing this and creating extra financial problems for them with relegation caused by maths is just not a sporting solution.
I'd say stopping makes life easier for a few reasons:
1. It allows clubs to release players and scale back their expenditure as needed. I assume many more clubs over the next couple of seasons will follow our recent model of wafer-thin first team squads with the aim being survival.
2. You're right that clubs will sign players before the new season. However, I suspect it may be harder for players to find clubs, so compensation will be lower and clubs will get more bang for their buck.
3. It may unlock payments (sponsorship etc.) that will be paid to clubs at the start of a new season, but won't be paid if this one is still ongoing.
I'm obviously not an expert in this area and there may be many other reasons I'm missing. Those seem logical to me though.
As eric says, every solution is deeply unsatisfactory.
I’d want to see the top 2 go up, and the bottom 2 come down from the championship.
That way us, Oxford and everyone else can argue for the next twenty years about what should have been, but at least no one actually gained a significant advantage or bragging rights over it.
@Last_Quarter said:
I'd say stopping makes life easier for a few reasons:
1. It allows clubs to release players and scale back their expenditure as needed. I assume many more clubs over the next couple of seasons will follow our recent model of wafer-thin first team squads with the aim being survival.
2. You're right that clubs will sign players before the new season. However, I suspect it may be harder for players to find clubs, so compensation will be lower and clubs will get more bang for their buck.
3. It may unlock payments (sponsorship etc.) that will be paid to clubs at the start of a new season, but won't be paid if this one is still ongoing.
I'm obviously not an expert in this area and there may be many other reasons I'm missing. Those seem logical to me though.
Player contracts go to 30th June and then a one month severance payment is made. We are in early May so we have loads of time before then.
I can't see salaries reducing at our level when it's not happening higher up.
Ending the season early may well lead to certain sponsorship money being repaid. Unlocking next years is only bringing forward cash and is not saving the club money. It just pushes problems further away.
I don't get what stopping the season does to secure the future that can't be done in other ways. Just be patient and wait.
Comments
I'm in the anyone but PNL camp !!
This is the table after 34 games plus PPG for home and away games applied.
Cov 44 86.706 Pts
Rot 44 80.235 Pts
Por 44 76.353 Pts
Fle 44 75.474 Pts
Wyc 44 74.708 Pts
Sun 44 74.095 Pts
Pete 44 73.94 Pts
Oxf 44 73.766 Pts
Oxford clearly benefiting from having played an extra game compared to us.
The EFL have a very tough job on their hands.
All this time I never knew you could get 4 points for an away win.
Well if poxford were to be promoted they would always have the shame of not actually being promoted correctly . The bonus would be if they go straight down again and we are promoted on merit next season.
What are the 44s?
Indeed. As has been said, promotion by maths followed by a season of matches you can’t attend followed by relation would be grim. So us going up as champions with a business plan to survive in ‘21 as Oxford return to league 1 would, in some ways, be sweeter.
Games Played
All of these clearly partisan ideas for ending the season leads me to propose the only possible objective formula:
PPG x number of shirt quarters x fans who would not want to watch every week + bonus point for male names in stadium name + bonus point for grammatical exactitude of fan forum x drum disputes x red kites + bonus point for single access road.
On such a fair an objective method, we would squeeze into first place with around 342,564 points.
@Shev Don't forget to add extra for length of kiosk queue and number of trees visible from inside the ground.
Seeing as football won’t be able to be resumed for a while, I suggest promotion is decided through a bench press competition on Zoom.
seems obvious now, ta!
I think I was confused at the mention of 34 games at the start, and having 44 but only points after it. We didn't need the 44s!
Would anyone seriously like to be promoted in all this?
When there's talk of football being behind closed doors until Jan?
What joy is there in watching your, underfunded team due to a worldwide pandemic, head to clubs competing for the top division, and being potentially drubbed every week on iFollow?
I think i'd still choose to go up this season and bank that championship money, even if we're terrible for a season.
As long as we don't boot it into a range of 10k a week players, it should serve us better all in.
You can't go off current standings for the games in hand element, so PPG seems the only sensible way of conducting things.
To then warp it into biasing away games seems mad.
Why not bias it further depending on the position of each team faced as well. That little twist might tweak the order again.
And so on.
Simple answer use the Pools Panel. It would be interesting to see the current table based on their predictions.
https://www.footballpools.com/news/pools-panel-continuation-of-classic-pools#
Is it not inconceivable that we finish the season, after Christmas, and add a British cup to the FA Cup. As their is little glory or solace in football when your peers or neighbours are dying.
And in the meantime people stand up to sky sports money back demands.
That really is football coming home !!
Royal rumble with each team nominating their strongest player? Not sure who we'd put forward.
Those of us who had some of the 20/1 pre-season
Why just sitting tight and waiting is so hard I'll never know.
I think because reality is starting to bite. L1 and L2 clubs can't afford to play behind closed doors and fans aren't going to be allowed into grounds anytime soon. Player contracts are up at the end of next month and clubs need to work out how they're going to survive the next 6-12 months. Sitting tight and waiting isn't an option unless someone is going to throw a load of money into L1 and L2 to keep clubs afloat, so ending the season really becomes the only option.
I don't think this home/away PPG thing is as terrible as some are saying, insofar as it's no worse than any of the other ideas that anyone's come up with.
I suppose the point I'm making is they are all as bad as one another. The only fair way of deciding a league is after everyone has played everyone else twice. Anything else doesn't and can't take into account who you have played or are yet to play, much less intangible and unquantifiable factors like runs of form etc
What would be really interesting, if someone could be bothered to do it (disclaimer: I absolutely can't) would be to retrospectively apply this, and perhaps absolute PPG calculations to the league tables at this stage during the last x number of seasons and see how accurate the calculated final tables are compared to the actual final table
2018/19 actual top 6:
Bottom 4:
2018/19 top 6 based on PPG had the season stopped at the same stage as this season:
Bottom 4:
I'll give the whole thing a look later.
Sorry but isn't that just a fact of life for every person, business, charity or sports club? We all need financial support as revenue and wages stop. I don't see how stopping makes life any easier. Clubs will sign new players in anticipation of a season at some point in the future. They will want to be paid?
When football returns with crowds it needs a massive initial boost. Surely playing the last games of this season is of more interest than the first few of a next when their is no guarantee that will be played to a finish either.
Just wait and see what happens. Why make assumptions and not actually solving anything
@chairboyscentral good work and surely shows that in the last 10 games of the season teams at the bottom get on rolls and can save themselves from nowhere. Stopping teams from doing this and creating extra financial problems for them with relegation caused by maths is just not a sporting solution.
Hang on a minute, I've gone a round of fixtures too early. So this is last season's table after most teams had played 35 games:
This is the actual final table:
And this is the final table based on PPG from the first table (x46):
Seems incredible Charlton picked up 28 points in their last 11 games.
They were incredibly solid at our place, which I think was the last game of our winless run.
I'd say stopping makes life easier for a few reasons:
1. It allows clubs to release players and scale back their expenditure as needed. I assume many more clubs over the next couple of seasons will follow our recent model of wafer-thin first team squads with the aim being survival.
2. You're right that clubs will sign players before the new season. However, I suspect it may be harder for players to find clubs, so compensation will be lower and clubs will get more bang for their buck.
3. It may unlock payments (sponsorship etc.) that will be paid to clubs at the start of a new season, but won't be paid if this one is still ongoing.
I'm obviously not an expert in this area and there may be many other reasons I'm missing. Those seem logical to me though.
Cheers @chairboyscentral that's great work
As eric says, every solution is deeply unsatisfactory.
I’d want to see the top 2 go up, and the bottom 2 come down from the championship.
That way us, Oxford and everyone else can argue for the next twenty years about what should have been, but at least no one actually gained a significant advantage or bragging rights over it.
It feels a lot less contentious to me.
I don't get what stopping the season does to secure the future that can't be done in other ways. Just be patient and wait.