@DevC he has generally played well but is prone to knocking saves straight to an opposition striker, falling down injured at every set-piece and does not command his defence as he should, or breed confidence at corners or when a ball is being crossed. As League One goalies go he's not the best, but every fan forum seems to have an issue with their keepers.
Stockdale may well be far the superior 'keeper in theory but the second goal against MK was a Sunday League howler (and yes, Tom, I watched it on the highlights as well as being there) and, as evidenced by the goal in the previous game (Blackpool?) as well as his overall appearance, he didn't seem too light on his feet generally.
I thought he was fantastic in the couple of games he played last season and would be delighted if he started playing again and performed like that but he was, to my untutored eye, nowhere near that level so far this time round. If he needs a few weeks to get properly fit then so be it. In the meantime, Ryan, for whom I had some sympathy when Stockdale arrived and who has performed, again in my ill-informed judgement, somewhat better than last season, seems a perfectly acceptable alternative if not a consistently reassuring one.
@DevC said:
Is it possible the "issue" could be that Stockdale is now 34 , has hardly played for a couple of years , perhaps hasn't trained with the intensity he should (speculation) and is now not nearly as good a keeper as he was in his days on the edge of the England side.
We have got to third in the table with allsopp in goal. I am told he has generally played well this season. Not sure i understand why the knives are out for him on this site. Does there always have to be one?
Fans that go to games are going to have opinions on players they see Dev. All part of being a fan
Anyone else reading this and thinking back to when certain sections of the fan base were seriously arguing that Scott Brown should start instead of Jamal Blackman a few years' back? The Allsop vs Stockdale argument seems much the same to me. Still, in Gareth I trust.
Fans that go to games are going to have opinions on players they see Dev. All part of being a fan
Indeed Eric. Thats why I cannot have an opinion on players performance apart from the handful of games I see. All i was doing was suggesting that instead of there being some behind the scenes "issue", it could well just be as simple as on the filed and in training, Allsopp is performing in the managers opinion better than the 34 year old Stockdale. Not everything has to be a drama.
well quite, but as Stockdale is by any measure in a different class to Allsopp then there would have to be a reason for him to be worse in training than him, such as the ones you have mentioned
You're pretty much agreeing with everyone else, unless you feel that all other things being equal Allsopp is the better goalkeeper
As we have both agreed, I cant really judge players as I only see a few games. At his peak (on the edge of the England team) there is no doubt that Stockdale was a better goalkeeper than Allsopp currently is. But that isn't really the question. The question is whether today Stockdale or Allsopp is the better goalkeeper. I dont know the answer to that either but I know a man who is paid to make that judgement and is the best position to make it. I am happy to trust his judgement.
I do think it far more likely that GA choice of Allsopp over Stockdale is a judgement on playing form and not a result of some sort of behind the scenes "issue".
Fortunately Eric, I don’t have to make that decision. All
I know is, the manager sees the players on a daily basis, he is therefore in the best position to judge their form, their mood, their strengths and weaknesses, whether they have off the field problems etc. I trust Gareth’s judgement 100%.
I think Ainsworth made it fairly clear that there was an issue with Stockdale's fitness. Personally, whilst agreeing that a fully fit Stockdale is the better keeper. Based upon his performance at MK, where he controlled the area well, but made a couple of mistakes when making saves, having Allsop ahead of him at the moment is the correct call in my view.
Rocky has been in goal for the (at present) third placed team for most of the season, so he may not be better than Stockdale, but he's better than a lot of the other keepers in the division.
@Wendoverman said:
Rocky has been in goal for the (at present) third placed team for most of the season, so he may not be better than Stockdale, but he's better than a lot of the other keepers in the division.
@Wendoverman said:
I hope you are not accusing me of being overly simplistic in my analysis @chairboyscentral I can't do the maths.
I'd need to look more into it, on the 'eye test' compared to all the other 'keepers this season, I'd say he's about average - so I suppose you could say he's better than a lot. But my main point was that goalkeeping strength doesn't necessarily correlate with league position. Sunderland and Pompey have had problems in that department yet are right behind us.
@fame_46 said:
Many players have been talked about 'nearly' making an England squad. Facts are he didn't - that's not to say I don't rate him. Clearly he's a capable goalkeeper as proven throughout his earlier career.
What's the old adage - "Form is temporary, class is permanent"
Stockdale undoubtedly comes with some pedigree. However, he has made two errors two games in a row and looked anything but match fit in those two performances. His form is woeful but no-one doubts if he can regain match fitness we should see his class again. He deserved to be dropped.
Allsop has had a significantly improved season, no doubt helped by a better defensive unit in front of him, but he is also part of that improved unit. They have worked hard as a team of five. I think it is grossly unfair to suggest that the run of 10 games and one goal conceded was solely down to the four defenders and nothing to do with the GK quite absurd. They are a team.
If anything our goals conceded was due to our midfield not providing enough protection, particularly when Gape and Thompson got injured over the Xmas period.
A number of PL keepers have passed the ball directly to an opposition striker in the last few weeks and then conceded, Jordan Pickford being one such example. Even at the highest level that type of mistake takes place. Allsop is in L1 because he is not brilliant at every facet of his game.
I thought after that error Allsop played particularly well against Fleetwood. Unlike his PL counterparts his error did not cost a goal. I've seen a replay of the goal, Allsop is anticipating the striker getting a touch and positioned himself accordingly. The ball took a bobble, the striker missed it completely and wrong footed Allsop. I'm not sure it was a significant error on his part but I know others will see it otherwise.
As is the norm, once an opinion is formed of a player, fans generally see every little error to back up that opinion. One guy in the group I sit with cannot stop hammering him constantly, going as far as not even applauding him if he makes a great save!
It seems there are a few others on here who wouldn't give him credit for having a good game "because there's an error just around the corner"...
I'm behind every player out there on the pitch, but there's nothing wrong with critiquing (abuse is a different matter and has driven Matt Bloomfield off Twitter this season) - and I'm fairly confident none of the players read this forum!
Comments
Being 34 isn't an issue for a goalie is it? Lack of game time probably is.
I'd play him but mainly due to Allsops general slowness around restarts rather than any keeping ability. Is that wrong?
@DevC he has generally played well but is prone to knocking saves straight to an opposition striker, falling down injured at every set-piece and does not command his defence as he should, or breed confidence at corners or when a ball is being crossed. As League One goalies go he's not the best, but every fan forum seems to have an issue with their keepers.
See also Scott Brown not being good enough for League 2...
Stockdale may well be far the superior 'keeper in theory but the second goal against MK was a Sunday League howler (and yes, Tom, I watched it on the highlights as well as being there) and, as evidenced by the goal in the previous game (Blackpool?) as well as his overall appearance, he didn't seem too light on his feet generally.
I thought he was fantastic in the couple of games he played last season and would be delighted if he started playing again and performed like that but he was, to my untutored eye, nowhere near that level so far this time round. If he needs a few weeks to get properly fit then so be it. In the meantime, Ryan, for whom I had some sympathy when Stockdale arrived and who has performed, again in my ill-informed judgement, somewhat better than last season, seems a perfectly acceptable alternative if not a consistently reassuring one.
Fans that go to games are going to have opinions on players they see Dev. All part of being a fan
Anyone else reading this and thinking back to when certain sections of the fan base were seriously arguing that Scott Brown should start instead of Jamal Blackman a few years' back? The Allsop vs Stockdale argument seems much the same to me. Still, in Gareth I trust.
Indeed Eric. Thats why I cannot have an opinion on players performance apart from the handful of games I see. All i was doing was suggesting that instead of there being some behind the scenes "issue", it could well just be as simple as on the filed and in training, Allsopp is performing in the managers opinion better than the 34 year old Stockdale. Not everything has to be a drama.
well quite, but as Stockdale is by any measure in a different class to Allsopp then there would have to be a reason for him to be worse in training than him, such as the ones you have mentioned
You're pretty much agreeing with everyone else, unless you feel that all other things being equal Allsopp is the better goalkeeper
yes
No goalkeeper could have done anything about Tranmere’s goal and why use an offensive play on words about someone from the team you support?
As we have both agreed, I cant really judge players as I only see a few games. At his peak (on the edge of the England team) there is no doubt that Stockdale was a better goalkeeper than Allsopp currently is. But that isn't really the question. The question is whether today Stockdale or Allsopp is the better goalkeeper. I dont know the answer to that either but I know a man who is paid to make that judgement and is the best position to make it. I am happy to trust his judgement.
I do think it far more likely that GA choice of Allsopp over Stockdale is a judgement on playing form and not a result of some sort of behind the scenes "issue".
Who would you pick in goal Alan?
DevC v eric_plant get the popcorn in
Fortunately Eric, I don’t have to make that decision. All
I know is, the manager sees the players on a daily basis, he is therefore in the best position to judge their form, their mood, their strengths and weaknesses, whether they have off the field problems etc. I trust Gareth’s judgement 100%.
I think Ainsworth made it fairly clear that there was an issue with Stockdale's fitness. Personally, whilst agreeing that a fully fit Stockdale is the better keeper. Based upon his performance at MK, where he controlled the area well, but made a couple of mistakes when making saves, having Allsop ahead of him at the moment is the correct call in my view.
How about the measure of whether they can get into the first team at Wycombe Wanderers?
Rocky has been in goal for the (at present) third placed team for most of the season, so he may not be better than Stockdale, but he's better than a lot of the other keepers in the division.
It's not quite that straightforward.
I hope you are not accusing me of being overly simplistic in my analysis @chairboyscentral
I can't do the maths.
@glasshalffull It's rather dangerous to trust something 100pc I would suggest
I could have been in goal for a few of the games earlier in the season and we would have kept a clean sheet.
my mate completed a 147 with an oak branch
Ok, 99% then!
Surely your not suggesting the infallible Mr Parry could be wrong!
I'd need to look more into it, on the 'eye test' compared to all the other 'keepers this season, I'd say he's about average - so I suppose you could say he's better than a lot. But my main point was that goalkeeping strength doesn't necessarily correlate with league position. Sunderland and Pompey have had problems in that department yet are right behind us.
Facts are he made two England squads.
What's the old adage - "Form is temporary, class is permanent"
Stockdale undoubtedly comes with some pedigree. However, he has made two errors two games in a row and looked anything but match fit in those two performances. His form is woeful but no-one doubts if he can regain match fitness we should see his class again. He deserved to be dropped.
Allsop has had a significantly improved season, no doubt helped by a better defensive unit in front of him, but he is also part of that improved unit. They have worked hard as a team of five. I think it is grossly unfair to suggest that the run of 10 games and one goal conceded was solely down to the four defenders and nothing to do with the GK quite absurd. They are a team.
If anything our goals conceded was due to our midfield not providing enough protection, particularly when Gape and Thompson got injured over the Xmas period.
A number of PL keepers have passed the ball directly to an opposition striker in the last few weeks and then conceded, Jordan Pickford being one such example. Even at the highest level that type of mistake takes place. Allsop is in L1 because he is not brilliant at every facet of his game.
I thought after that error Allsop played particularly well against Fleetwood. Unlike his PL counterparts his error did not cost a goal. I've seen a replay of the goal, Allsop is anticipating the striker getting a touch and positioned himself accordingly. The ball took a bobble, the striker missed it completely and wrong footed Allsop. I'm not sure it was a significant error on his part but I know others will see it otherwise.
As is the norm, once an opinion is formed of a player, fans generally see every little error to back up that opinion. One guy in the group I sit with cannot stop hammering him constantly, going as far as not even applauding him if he makes a great save!
It seems there are a few others on here who wouldn't give him credit for having a good game "because there's an error just around the corner"...
It's all about opinions I suppose!
I'm behind every player out there on the pitch, but there's nothing wrong with critiquing (abuse is a different matter and has driven Matt Bloomfield off Twitter this season) - and I'm fairly confident none of the players read this forum!