I'm not sure our award-winning grounds contractors would be keen on that idea @A_Non_E_Mouse especially as I understand they are keeping the pitch in the same fantastic condition despite having to operate within a lower budget than previously.
@A_Non_E_Mouse said:
How about letting the kids take the penalties in the actual goals again (like they used to), rather than in a cheap pitch side net (which they can do in their own back garden). Also, if a big away support, take the penalties at the away end. If memory serves, they often got a fantastic reception from the away fans.
My thoughts exactly. No need for Bodger to do himself an injury either...kiddy goalkeeper...kids scoring in front of a crowd who enjoy their celebrations. Much better than that dog's breakfast we have now (apologies to all concerned)!
And Rocky has something to blame for his 70th minute tripped over the turf injury
OK, how about this one. Centre spot speed chess! Chess board on the centre spot with the two participants. Best player that we can offer, versus the best that the away fans can muster. 9 minutes maximum, with the match filmed in close up and beamed around the ground on the big screen. Perhaps the best option for the more excitable amongst us, but I'm sure it'd get some support.
We've all heard of the famous Roker Roar haven't we. The deafening noise made by the Sunderland fans on the terraces of the old Roker Park. Well, we should build our own reputation for the Wycombe Roar. Unfortunately, with our level of support we'll need a bit of help. So, when we score a goal, how about secretly playing the Roker Roar through the speakers in the Terrace and Frank Adams. Opposition fans and players would certainly be none the wiser, and our reputation as very vocal supporters would soon grow.
@HCblue said:
It’s cheerleaders, not strippers. Not my bag but nothing to be exercised about. Let them have their wholesome, enthusiastic fun and let those that would enjoy it do so. I don’t expect a hoard of mac-wearing perverts to suddenly appear pitchside.
Oh Horlicks, I will pack my Columbo mac away again then!
I did think of you as I wrote, @EwanHoosaami, hence the prediction of no horde rather than no pervs at all.
@glasshalffull said:
What a surprise, the usual suspects pour the usual scorn on a harmless attempt to add a little entertainment to match day at Adams Park.
What a surprise. The new money can do no wrong. Why do you despise long term supporters Alan?
They’ve had a good start, but this is stone age stuff.
@glasshalffull said:
What a surprise, the usual suspects pour the usual scorn on a harmless attempt to add a little entertainment to match day at Adams Park.
What a surprise. The new money can do no wrong. Why do you despise long term supporters Alan?
They’ve had a good start, but this is stone age stuff.
Most of the comments have been pretty harmless @glasshalffull whatever the particular view on cheerleading. For my part, it's not what I want to see on matchday and I don't think it necessarily sends out the right message about the club but I'm not having kittens about it.
@NewburyWanderer said:
How to improve the match day experience?
Stop playing the loathsome "Sweet Caroline" at every and any opportunity.
I think Reading started using this a few years ago. Doesn't mean we have to follow whatever other clubs do.
To me this is the one truly offensive thing that happens off the field at AP these days.
Agree completely @NewburyWanderer. Can we also have the teams running out to Roadhouse Blues by The Doors? That will get me pumped up and motivated. Some of the stuff served up in recent years defies belief (says a grumpy old man).
This cheerleading troupe have been introduced for one reason only. Glamour / pestery. It’s so pathetic, so caveman, I could weep. Pity the idiot who returns to AP because of this woeful initiative.
Might as well hire Robin Asquith while we’re at it to come along and chase them around the stadium Embarrassing scenes.
For the sake of balance, congrats on the beer tent.
@glasshalffull said:
What a surprise, the usual suspects pour the usual scorn on a harmless attempt to add a little entertainment to match day at Adams Park.
What a surprise. The new money can do no wrong. Why do you despise long term supporters Alan?
They’ve had a good start, but this is stone age stuff.
Nothing like jumping to conclusions and making wild generalisations is there? How do you translate my comments about a handful of posters who so often look for negatives rather than positives into ‘why do you despise long term supporters’?
Incidentally, I’ve followed Wycombe since the mid-70’s when I moved into the area so I might qualify as a long term supporter myself.
@NewburyWanderer said:
How to improve the match day experience?
Stop playing the loathsome "Sweet Caroline" at every and any opportunity.
I think Reading started using this a few years ago. Doesn't mean we have to follow whatever other clubs do.
To me this is the one truly offensive thing that happens off the field at AP these days.
Agree completely @NewburyWanderer. Can we also have the teams running out to Roadhouse Blues by The Doors? That will get me pumped up and motivated. Some of the stuff served up in recent years defies belief (says a grumpy old man).
@Steve_Peart Absolutely Steve. Think GA would appreciate that. Something like The Foo Fighters might also do the job.
@A_Non_E_Mouse said:
How about letting the kids take the penalties in the actual goals again (like they used to), rather than in a cheap pitch side net (which they can do in their own back garden). Also, if a big away support, take the penalties at the away end. If memory serves, they often got a fantastic reception from the away fans.
My thoughts exactly. No need for Bodger to do himself an injury either...kiddy goalkeeper...kids scoring in front of a crowd who enjoy their celebrations. Much better than that dog's breakfast we have now (apologies to all concerned)!
And Rocky has something to blame for his 70th minute tripped over the turf injury
I used to do this, it was great fun and we always got the away fans involved. I still get emails from families that were involved, asking if the younger siblings can have a go.
This has unexpectedly inflamed some passions and generated some quite reasoned debate and a lot of unreasonable abuse.
As a(generally) advocate of political correctness (and Frankie Boyle fan) I do find myself a little conflicted on the subject of Cheerleaders. Instinctively it feels wrong to me but I think this says more about the male half of the species and I think I (maybe others) are guilty of looking at - and judging - the subject through an almost sexually exploitive lens.
As the father of late teenage girls who have been dancing since they were 4 (grade certificates, shows, competitions, etc) they also joined a cheerleading group around 4 or 5 years ago who perform every other week or so in front of around 2,000 people at the local Rugby club.
They put an incredible amount of work into their routines and genuinely look forward to demonstrating their skills and art in front of a crowd (the majority admittedly disinterested spectators), but it is a performance and there is never any suggestion of the ‘caveman’ behaviour others have suggested.
I do however agree it’s a nuanced argument and, dependent on how it is presented, I think I will probably find it cringeworthy at Wycombe as culturally it really isn’t a good fit.
Are we right to try it though (which I suppose is what this thread is all about)? I genuinely don’t know. On balance as a one-off it’s probably okay as it generates discussion about the club (as this thread demonstrates) and people discussing our club in town (even if to argue against the policy) is probably helpful at this stage in reminding the locals that we are still here.
Which brings me to my second point. @glasshalffull. I do worry that your willingness to fight the good cause may be counter-productive at times.
You seem very quick to jump on any criticism of the Couhigs either direct or inferred.
Now, I think that virtually all of us on here (whilst expressing legitimate concerns about the debt being built up and the Hobson’s choice (as someone nicely stated earlier - or elsewhere) we will be faced with, are generally supportive - and almost enthusiastic - about their efforts so far.
But, we are (well most of us) British. The one true, unique and great characteristic of bring British (in my opinion) is that we show little respect and remorselessly take the piss out of people in authority (Boris Johnson understands this only too well and his public persona beats us to it by taking g the piss out of himself all the time).
If you are going to get upset every time any of us do so (and we will whether justified or not) it will only encourage us to do it more.
If the Couhigs also fail to understand this and realise it is not meant personally, I feel they could easily wonder what the hell they’ve walked into and walk away.
(Aren’t you from Liverpool? I thought it was an art-form up there so surprised you are so easily upset).
Agree completely @NewburyWanderer. Can we also have the teams running out to Roadhouse Blues by The Doors? That will get me pumped up and motivated. Some of the stuff served up in recent years defies belief (says a grumpy old man).
How about the opposition running out to Horse Latitudes? That should throw them
This has unexpectedly inflamed some passions and generated some quite reasoned debate and a lot of unreasonable abuse.
As a(generally) advocate of political correctness (and Frankie Boyle fan) I do find myself a little conflicted on the subject of Cheerleaders. Instinctively it feels wrong to me but I think this says more about the male half of the species and I think I (maybe others) are guilty of looking at - and judging - the subject through an almost sexually exploitive lens.
As the father of late teenage girls who have been dancing since they were 4 (grade certificates, shows, competitions, etc) they also joined a cheerleading group around 4 or 5 years ago who perform every other week or so in front of around 2,000 people at the local Rugby club.
They put an incredible amount of work into their routines and genuinely look forward to demonstrating their skills and art in front of a crowd (the majority admittedly disinterested spectators), but it is a performance and there is never any suggestion of the ‘caveman’ behaviour others have suggested.
I do however agree it’s a nuanced argument and, dependent on how it is presented, I think I will probably find it cringeworthy at Wycombe as culturally it really isn’t a good fit.
Are we right to try it though (which I suppose is what this thread is all about)? I genuinely don’t know. On balance as a one-off it’s probably okay as it generates discussion about the club (as this thread demonstrates) and people discussing our club in town (even if to argue against the policy) is probably helpful at this stage in reminding the locals that we are still here.
Which brings me to my second point. @glasshalffull. I do worry that your willingness to fight the good cause may be counter-productive at times.
You seem very quick to jump on any criticism of the Couhigs either direct or inferred.
Now, I think that virtually all of us on here (whilst expressing legitimate concerns about the debt being built up and the Hobson’s choice (as someone nicely stated earlier - or elsewhere) we will be faced with, are generally supportive - and almost enthusiastic - about their efforts so far.
But, we are (well most of us) British. The one true, unique and great characteristic of bring British (in my opinion) is that we show little respect and remorselessly take the piss out of people in authority (Boris Johnson understands this only too well and his public persona beats us to it by taking g the piss out of himself all the time).
If you are going to get upset every time any of us do so (and we will whether justified or not) it will only encourage us to do it more.
If the Couhigs also fail to understand this and realise it is not meant personally, I feel they could easily wonder what the hell they’ve walked into and walk away.
(Aren’t you from Liverpool? I thought it was an art-form up there so surprised you are so easily upset).
Sorry. Long train journey. Early start. Rant over
Yes, they not objects or symbols or relics of another era they will be half a dozen nervous young people who have practiced a routine and will probably be ignored by the vast majority of the crowd.
@mooneyman said: @bookertease - POTD. Unfortunately with regard to Mr Parry your view will fall on deaf ears.
Not the first time, you are wrong. I don’t agree with everything he said, but I thought Bookertease made some excellent points in a very well written post.
This has unexpectedly inflamed some passions and generated some quite reasoned debate and a lot of unreasonable abuse.
As a(generally) advocate of political correctness (and Frankie Boyle fan) I do find myself a little conflicted on the subject of Cheerleaders. Instinctively it feels wrong to me but I think this says more about the male half of the species and I think I (maybe others) are guilty of looking at - and judging - the subject through an almost sexually exploitive lens.
As the father of late teenage girls who have been dancing since they were 4 (grade certificates, shows, competitions, etc) they also joined a cheerleading group around 4 or 5 years ago who perform every other week or so in front of around 2,000 people at the local Rugby club.
They put an incredible amount of work into their routines and genuinely look forward to demonstrating their skills and art in front of a crowd (the majority admittedly disinterested spectators), but it is a performance and there is never any suggestion of the ‘caveman’ behaviour others have suggested.
I do however agree it’s a nuanced argument and, dependent on how it is presented, I think I will probably find it cringeworthy at Wycombe as culturally it really isn’t a good fit.
Are we right to try it though (which I suppose is what this thread is all about)? I genuinely don’t know. On balance as a one-off it’s probably okay as it generates discussion about the club (as this thread demonstrates) and people discussing our club in town (even if to argue against the policy) is probably helpful at this stage in reminding the locals that we are still here.
Which brings me to my second point. @glasshalffull. I do worry that your willingness to fight the good cause may be counter-productive at times.
You seem very quick to jump on any criticism of the Couhigs either direct or inferred.
Now, I think that virtually all of us on here (whilst expressing legitimate concerns about the debt being built up and the Hobson’s choice (as someone nicely stated earlier - or elsewhere) we will be faced with, are generally supportive - and almost enthusiastic - about their efforts so far.
But, we are (well most of us) British. The one true, unique and great characteristic of bring British (in my opinion) is that we show little respect and remorselessly take the piss out of people in authority (Boris Johnson understands this only too well and his public persona beats us to it by taking g the piss out of himself all the time).
If you are going to get upset every time any of us do so (and we will whether justified or not) it will only encourage us to do it more.
If the Couhigs also fail to understand this and realise it is not meant personally, I feel they could easily wonder what the hell they’ve walked into and walk away.
(Aren’t you from Liverpool? I thought it was an art-form up there so surprised you are so easily upset).
Sorry. Long train journey. Early start. Rant over
I’ve seen at least 3 sets of cheerleaders perform to the Valley over the years and ever single one has been embarrassing to the extent I’ve felt ashamed to be amongst the crowd.
The cheerleaders, of course, performed their routines admirably, but I defy anyone on here to have stood with their daughter, wife, sister, girlfriend and not to have felt ashamed.
100s of men chanting ‘get your tits out’ and other obscenities I can’t repeat here at clearly pre-pubescent girls was really appalling stuff. In the 90s I felt that this was a relic from another era and the current terrace dwelling shouters haven’t exactly grown a reputation for restraint.
Couhig et al clearly wouldn’t want to encourage such behaviour yet it seems to be unfolding before us in the slowest of slow motions.
If it’s performed in front of the family stand, there is more likelihood of a more respectful reception I suppose. I guess we’ll find out in a few hours.
Having been to a college US football game in the states, I couldn’t fail to be impressed by the dedication, talent and hard work of the many, many students involved in the overwhelming razzmatazz that goes on around the game - things like the marching band and the cheerleading groups. The athleticism and skill of the cheerleaders was amazing, and to think it was any less worthy or valid a leisure pursuit or form of entertainment than football would be an act of sexism in itself. (Whether the unpaid work of all these students in an industry that generates millions for the universities is ethical is another question entirely.)
However, I am extremely doubtful that that is the kind of thing that would be going on at Wycombe - as others have previously said in this thread. I believe there is the same issue at NFL games, where glamour is the main priority for cheerleaders rather than athletic talent.
I’m all for encouraging girls to get involved in sport - cheerleading is not in principle a bad thing and certainly has more appeal to some girls than football. That’s fine. But there is no need for Wycombe games to be yet another place where ‘traditional’ gender roles are reinforced - the men do the important stuff while the women look pretty.
@Lloyd2084 That's a very good point. If they are going to do this, then perhaps it would be best for everyone if they performed only to the family stand and avoided the terrace.
They are clearly and quite rightly bringing their knowledge and experience of staging sporting events to a UK setting and seeing what works and what doesn't. If you try 10 things and 8 or 9 work then that's a positive and you change or ditch the other 1 or 2 The vibe here,is that we've seen this before and it doesn't work in a British setting However I am happy to be proved wrong if there's a different approach to what they do. If not we move on. There's always a fine balance between saying "we tried this before and it didn't work" ie the voice of experience and stifling initiative. Having been in my job for a number of years I am used to someone coming up with a "new" idea remembering how it went belly up last time.it was tried The trick is to learn from what went wrong last time if you are going to try it again. As has been said by 5 pm we wil know and more importantly hopefully have 3 more points COYB !
I'm not fussed either way, I'll be spending half time as I always do, checking up on social media and what's happening elsewhere.
Let's not forget though, that these girls have actively sought to be cheerleaders and will probably enjoy strutting their stuff in front of a crowd. When I first started watching in 1991/92, it was always a fan on the pitch taking penalties against the reserve goalkeeper as part of the raffle/draw, was pretty decent.
Well said Mr67, a far more balanced and measured offering than many that I’ve read. These guys know what they’re doing and if they feel that this idea is unpopular with the majority then I’m sure they’ll respond accordingly.
Comments
I'm not sure our award-winning grounds contractors would be keen on that idea @A_Non_E_Mouse especially as I understand they are keeping the pitch in the same fantastic condition despite having to operate within a lower budget than previously.
My thoughts exactly. No need for Bodger to do himself an injury either...kiddy goalkeeper...kids scoring in front of a crowd who enjoy their celebrations. Much better than that dog's breakfast we have now (apologies to all concerned)!
And Rocky has something to blame for his 70th minute tripped over the turf injury
Noo - not that dreaded thunder playing!
Second only to teams playing music when they score. Dreadful.
I demand someone screams 'Let's get ready to RRRRRRRRRRRRRRumble...!' into a mike as the teams come out. (I'll get me coat...)
OK, how about this one. Centre spot speed chess! Chess board on the centre spot with the two participants. Best player that we can offer, versus the best that the away fans can muster. 9 minutes maximum, with the match filmed in close up and beamed around the ground on the big screen. Perhaps the best option for the more excitable amongst us, but I'm sure it'd get some support.
who was it who used to play "i feel good dodododododo" every time they scored?
Was that Wolves, or Reading or someone?
We've all heard of the famous Roker Roar haven't we. The deafening noise made by the Sunderland fans on the terraces of the old Roker Park. Well, we should build our own reputation for the Wycombe Roar. Unfortunately, with our level of support we'll need a bit of help. So, when we score a goal, how about secretly playing the Roker Roar through the speakers in the Terrace and Frank Adams. Opposition fans and players would certainly be none the wiser, and our reputation as very vocal supporters would soon grow.
Im pretty sure they pump recorded crowd noise into Anfield.
Can I bring my gimp mask instead?
What a surprise. The new money can do no wrong. Why do you despise long term supporters Alan?
They’ve had a good start, but this is stone age stuff.
Why stop now?
Most of the comments have been pretty harmless @glasshalffull whatever the particular view on cheerleading. For my part, it's not what I want to see on matchday and I don't think it necessarily sends out the right message about the club but I'm not having kittens about it.
This seems a judgement born of several unsupported assumptions.
Agree completely @NewburyWanderer. Can we also have the teams running out to Roadhouse Blues by The Doors? That will get me pumped up and motivated. Some of the stuff served up in recent years defies belief (says a grumpy old man).
This cheerleading troupe have been introduced for one reason only. Glamour / pestery. It’s so pathetic, so caveman, I could weep. Pity the idiot who returns to AP because of this woeful initiative.
Might as well hire Robin Asquith while we’re at it to come along and chase them around the stadium Embarrassing scenes.
For the sake of balance, congrats on the beer tent.
Nothing like jumping to conclusions and making wild generalisations is there? How do you translate my comments about a handful of posters who so often look for negatives rather than positives into ‘why do you despise long term supporters’?
Incidentally, I’ve followed Wycombe since the mid-70’s when I moved into the area so I might qualify as a long term supporter myself.
@Steve_Peart Absolutely Steve. Think GA would appreciate that. Something like The Foo Fighters might also do the job.
Roadhouse Blues has had my vote for years
I used to do this, it was great fun and we always got the away fans involved. I still get emails from families that were involved, asking if the younger siblings can have a go.
Wow.
This has unexpectedly inflamed some passions and generated some quite reasoned debate and a lot of unreasonable abuse.
As a(generally) advocate of political correctness (and Frankie Boyle fan) I do find myself a little conflicted on the subject of Cheerleaders. Instinctively it feels wrong to me but I think this says more about the male half of the species and I think I (maybe others) are guilty of looking at - and judging - the subject through an almost sexually exploitive lens.
As the father of late teenage girls who have been dancing since they were 4 (grade certificates, shows, competitions, etc) they also joined a cheerleading group around 4 or 5 years ago who perform every other week or so in front of around 2,000 people at the local Rugby club.
They put an incredible amount of work into their routines and genuinely look forward to demonstrating their skills and art in front of a crowd (the majority admittedly disinterested spectators), but it is a performance and there is never any suggestion of the ‘caveman’ behaviour others have suggested.
I do however agree it’s a nuanced argument and, dependent on how it is presented, I think I will probably find it cringeworthy at Wycombe as culturally it really isn’t a good fit.
Are we right to try it though (which I suppose is what this thread is all about)? I genuinely don’t know. On balance as a one-off it’s probably okay as it generates discussion about the club (as this thread demonstrates) and people discussing our club in town (even if to argue against the policy) is probably helpful at this stage in reminding the locals that we are still here.
Which brings me to my second point. @glasshalffull. I do worry that your willingness to fight the good cause may be counter-productive at times.
You seem very quick to jump on any criticism of the Couhigs either direct or inferred.
Now, I think that virtually all of us on here (whilst expressing legitimate concerns about the debt being built up and the Hobson’s choice (as someone nicely stated earlier - or elsewhere) we will be faced with, are generally supportive - and almost enthusiastic - about their efforts so far.
But, we are (well most of us) British. The one true, unique and great characteristic of bring British (in my opinion) is that we show little respect and remorselessly take the piss out of people in authority (Boris Johnson understands this only too well and his public persona beats us to it by taking g the piss out of himself all the time).
If you are going to get upset every time any of us do so (and we will whether justified or not) it will only encourage us to do it more.
If the Couhigs also fail to understand this and realise it is not meant personally, I feel they could easily wonder what the hell they’ve walked into and walk away.
(Aren’t you from Liverpool? I thought it was an art-form up there so surprised you are so easily upset).
Sorry. Long train journey. Early start. Rant over
How about the opposition running out to Horse Latitudes? That should throw them
@bookertease - POTD. Unfortunately with regard to Mr Parry your view will fall on deaf ears.
Yes, they not objects or symbols or relics of another era they will be half a dozen nervous young people who have practiced a routine and will probably be ignored by the vast majority of the crowd.
I’ve seen at least 3 sets of cheerleaders perform to the Valley over the years and ever single one has been embarrassing to the extent I’ve felt ashamed to be amongst the crowd.
The cheerleaders, of course, performed their routines admirably, but I defy anyone on here to have stood with their daughter, wife, sister, girlfriend and not to have felt ashamed.
100s of men chanting ‘get your tits out’ and other obscenities I can’t repeat here at clearly pre-pubescent girls was really appalling stuff. In the 90s I felt that this was a relic from another era and the current terrace dwelling shouters haven’t exactly grown a reputation for restraint.
Couhig et al clearly wouldn’t want to encourage such behaviour yet it seems to be unfolding before us in the slowest of slow motions.
If it’s performed in front of the family stand, there is more likelihood of a more respectful reception I suppose. I guess we’ll find out in a few hours.
Good luck to the performers!
Having been to a college US football game in the states, I couldn’t fail to be impressed by the dedication, talent and hard work of the many, many students involved in the overwhelming razzmatazz that goes on around the game - things like the marching band and the cheerleading groups. The athleticism and skill of the cheerleaders was amazing, and to think it was any less worthy or valid a leisure pursuit or form of entertainment than football would be an act of sexism in itself. (Whether the unpaid work of all these students in an industry that generates millions for the universities is ethical is another question entirely.)
However, I am extremely doubtful that that is the kind of thing that would be going on at Wycombe - as others have previously said in this thread. I believe there is the same issue at NFL games, where glamour is the main priority for cheerleaders rather than athletic talent.
I’m all for encouraging girls to get involved in sport - cheerleading is not in principle a bad thing and certainly has more appeal to some girls than football. That’s fine. But there is no need for Wycombe games to be yet another place where ‘traditional’ gender roles are reinforced - the men do the important stuff while the women look pretty.
@Lloyd2084 That's a very good point. If they are going to do this, then perhaps it would be best for everyone if they performed only to the family stand and avoided the terrace.
They are clearly and quite rightly bringing their knowledge and experience of staging sporting events to a UK setting and seeing what works and what doesn't. If you try 10 things and 8 or 9 work then that's a positive and you change or ditch the other 1 or 2 The vibe here,is that we've seen this before and it doesn't work in a British setting However I am happy to be proved wrong if there's a different approach to what they do. If not we move on. There's always a fine balance between saying "we tried this before and it didn't work" ie the voice of experience and stifling initiative. Having been in my job for a number of years I am used to someone coming up with a "new" idea remembering how it went belly up last time.it was tried The trick is to learn from what went wrong last time if you are going to try it again. As has been said by 5 pm we wil know and more importantly hopefully have 3 more points COYB !
I'm not fussed either way, I'll be spending half time as I always do, checking up on social media and what's happening elsewhere.
Let's not forget though, that these girls have actively sought to be cheerleaders and will probably enjoy strutting their stuff in front of a crowd. When I first started watching in 1991/92, it was always a fan on the pitch taking penalties against the reserve goalkeeper as part of the raffle/draw, was pretty decent.
Well said Mr67, a far more balanced and measured offering than many that I’ve read. These guys know what they’re doing and if they feel that this idea is unpopular with the majority then I’m sure they’ll respond accordingly.