Appreciate that Eric and having just watched that genuinely moving interview with Darius Charles, I’m not in the mood to argue with anyone. We all have our differing opinions, but his words underlined the one thing we do agree on-we’re fortunate to support such a wonderful little club.
As part of their cultural immersion our potential investors will have to come to terms with old world cynicism. The new world ‘can do’ mentality doesn’t come naturally here (sorry Boris but that’s for another day). So we won’t just swallow every initiative gratefully and unquestionably.
This is clearly a cultural misunderstanding. Pro sport in the US is family oriented, here it isn’t. Cheerleading there is a respected sporting side show, here it has no roots.
All this leads to misunderstanding. Rob is an American lawyer in the most politically correct work environment in the world. There is no way he would condone this ‘entertainment’ if he was aware of any dubious cultural context here in the UK.
He will be aware now, so, this is almost certainly a one off, indeed Pete may already have pulled the plug on his uncles behalf.
@th100 said:
How do we know that it was entirely the Couhigs' idea? Mark Palmer says he's worked with the company before.
Just Michael Davies with more hair.
Of all the newbies he is the one who should be sorting out real issues like food and beverage / parking etc and being confident enough to tell the Yanks some things won’t fly here, not wasting time pulling in his old muckers from the ents industry.
@glasshalffull said:
Yes, Malone I had noticed that! I was just trying to make the point (perhaps not clearly enough) that good taste is in the eye of the beholder. I find Frankie Boyle offensive, Dr Congo doesn’t. He finds cheerleaders offensive, I don’t.
It is interesting, like @Jonny_King pointed out, that nobody on here who is against the introduction of cheerleaders is moaning, claiming to be offended, or blaming the Couhigs. We have simply stated some well reasoned points of view for a few cavemen to throw mud at. @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull now both claiming I’ve said things that I haven’t. Never said I found it offensive, merely that it’s the opposite of what I would want my daughters to understand as their role in football. They spent the summer watching and cheering for Nikita Parris, Megan Rapinoe and however many other superstars doing incredible things in front of the world. To take them to Adams Park where women are relegated to this would be a step in the wrong direction. It may be difficult to follow along for the “political correctness gone mad” crowd, but the world has changed and some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more.
I wonder if the ladies matches will have a load of muscle bound half naked men doing dance routines to cheer them on? So hope all this nonsense stops, football is entertainment in it's own right, or should be!
Just a quick point, I don't think the Couhigs will be quite as bothered by critical comments as you seem to be. In their interaction with fans so far they have continually asked for feedback. To their credit they have taken negative feedback on board and responded with thanks and mutual respect.
They strike me as the sort of blokes who will listen to what fans are saying about this, and appreciate the fact that we have opinions on what is happening at our football club.
@glasshalffull said:
Yes, Malone I had noticed that! I was just trying to make the point (perhaps not clearly enough) that good taste is in the eye of the beholder. I find Frankie Boyle offensive, Dr Congo doesn’t. He finds cheerleaders offensive, I don’t.
It is interesting, like @Jonny_King pointed out, that nobody on here who is against the introduction of cheerleaders is moaning, claiming to be offended, or blaming the Couhigs. We have simply stated some well reasoned points of view for a few cavemen to throw mud at. @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull now both claiming I’ve said things that I haven’t. Never said I found it offensive, merely that it’s the opposite of what I would want my daughters to understand as their role in football. They spent the summer watching and cheering for Nikita Parris, Megan Rapinoe and however many other superstars doing incredible things in front of the world. To take them to Adams Park where women are relegated to this would be a step in the wrong direction. It may be difficult to follow along for the “political correctness gone mad” crowd, but the world has changed and some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more.
You're not suggesting that anyone who isn't against cheerleaders at half time this once is a caveman are you?
I don't recall anyone saying women's role in football should be "limited" to being a cheerleader either.
@glasshalffull said:
I’m off to my cave to watch the Darius Charles interview again to restore my faith in human nature and all the good things about our club.
I don't fully agree with Dr Congo on this, but imagine nearly losing your faith in human nature and the club because other men don't want to ogle women with you. What a truly daft thing to say.
I fear that you have misunderstood my point. I don’t want to get drawn into another debate about this topic, but I do object to people who don’t know me describing me as a caveman and making patronising comments about political correctness. I also object to people suggesting that I want to ogle young girls, especially when my own daughter and her friends did cheerleading at high school.
Much better to ignore the nonsense and watch again a truly inspiring interview that underlines all the good things about our club.
FFS @Malone, you chip in on these every single time, evidently without the mental capacity to understand what the grown-ups are discussing. This time you’ve managed to make two logical fallacy errors in a single post.
@drcongo said:
FFS @Malone, you chip in on these every single time, evidently without the mental capacity to understand what the grown-ups are discussing. This time you’ve managed to make two logical fallacy errors in a single post.
Trying to get to the bottom of just what you're saying, but again, you have to rely on this sort of tone instead.
If myself, @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull have all misinterpreted what you said, chances are you've not explained very well.
You said "some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more", so I ask you, WHO is saying they shouldn't be, and by extension, who is saying they should be limited to being cheerleaders?
@glasshalffull said:
Yes, Malone I had noticed that! I was just trying to make the point (perhaps not clearly enough) that good taste is in the eye of the beholder. I find Frankie Boyle offensive, Dr Congo doesn’t. He finds cheerleaders offensive, I don’t.
It is interesting, like @Jonny_King pointed out, that nobody on here who is against the introduction of cheerleaders is moaning, claiming to be offended, or blaming the Couhigs. We have simply stated some well reasoned points of view for a few cavemen to throw mud at. @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull now both claiming I’ve said things that I haven’t. Never said I found it offensive, merely that it’s the opposite of what I would want my daughters to understand as their role in football. They spent the summer watching and cheering for Nikita Parris, Megan Rapinoe and however many other superstars doing incredible things in front of the world. To take them to Adams Park where women are relegated to this would be a step in the wrong direction. It may be difficult to follow along for the “political correctness gone mad” crowd, but the world has changed and some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more.
"Relegated to this"
"inspire to more"
How do you think these women feel about that. can you answer me. If you could extrapolate you would see the irony
@glasshalffull said:
Yes, Malone I had noticed that! I was just trying to make the point (perhaps not clearly enough) that good taste is in the eye of the beholder. I find Frankie Boyle offensive, Dr Congo doesn’t. He finds cheerleaders offensive, I don’t.
It is interesting, like @Jonny_King pointed out, that nobody on here who is against the introduction of cheerleaders is moaning, claiming to be offended, or blaming the Couhigs. We have simply stated some well reasoned points of view for a few cavemen to throw mud at. @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull now both claiming I’ve said things that I haven’t. Never said I found it offensive, merely that it’s the opposite of what I would want my daughters to understand as their role in football. They spent the summer watching and cheering for Nikita Parris, Megan Rapinoe and however many other superstars doing incredible things in front of the world. To take them to Adams Park where women are relegated to this would be a step in the wrong direction. It may be difficult to follow along for the “political correctness gone mad” crowd, but the world has changed and some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more.
"Relegated to this"
"inspire to more"
How do you think these women feel about that. can you answer me. If you could extrapolate you would see the irony
>
I may not be able to keep up with the "grown ups", but I was also wondering who on earth was relegating women to being mere entertainment, or stopping women aspiring to more, just because as a one off we've invited a dancing troupe in!!
Play football. Cheerlead. Split atoms. Watch football. Devise economic theories. Learn to cook. Drink beer. Drink babysham. Do whatever you like. Who said this is what anyone had to do? Apparently, some people want to lead cheers for a football team. I propose to let them do so and carry on with my life. Everything else seems to be projection.
@glasshalffull said:
Yes, Malone I had noticed that! I was just trying to make the point (perhaps not clearly enough) that good taste is in the eye of the beholder. I find Frankie Boyle offensive, Dr Congo doesn’t. He finds cheerleaders offensive, I don’t.
It is interesting, like @Jonny_King pointed out, that nobody on here who is against the introduction of cheerleaders is moaning, claiming to be offended, or blaming the Couhigs. We have simply stated some well reasoned points of view for a few cavemen to throw mud at. @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull now both claiming I’ve said things that I haven’t. Never said I found it offensive, merely that it’s the opposite of what I would want my daughters to understand as their role in football. They spent the summer watching and cheering for Nikita Parris, Megan Rapinoe and however many other superstars doing incredible things in front of the world. To take them to Adams Park where women are relegated to this would be a step in the wrong direction. It may be difficult to follow along for the “political correctness gone mad” crowd, but the world has changed and some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more.
"Relegated to this"
"inspire to more"
How do you think these women feel about that. can you answer me. If you could extrapolate you would see the irony
>
I may not be able to keep up with the "grown ups", but I was also wondering who on earth was relegating women to being mere entertainment, or stopping women aspiring to more, just because as a one off we've invited a dancing troupe in!!
yep and for the record anyone who disagrees with me is not a child or mentally deficient
If it makes a 'horde of pervs' hot under the collar I can see drinks sales going up.
(Though might be worth having an extra St John's Ambulance person in the Beechdean. )
How to improve the match day experience?
Stop playing the loathsome "Sweet Caroline" at every and any opportunity.
I think Reading started using this a few years ago. Doesn't mean we have to follow whatever other clubs do.
To me this is the one truly offensive thing that happens off the field at AP these days.
@Uncle_T Elton can sing what he likes, doesn't bother me, but the sight of hundreds of pairs of hands waving along to that pile of doo-doo certainly does.
How about letting the kids take the penalties in the actual goals again (like they used to), rather than in a cheap pitch side net (which they can do in their own back garden). Also, if a big away support, take the penalties at the away end. If memory serves, they often got a fantastic reception from the away fans.
Any chance we can play a bit of music just before a corner. (Like we did for a season a good few years back.) Not every corner, just a random one or two. If our team is prepared for it, but opposition isn't, could be an advantage. (Unless this sort of thing has now been outlawed of course.)
Comments
As it happens when it comes to on-field matters, how a particular game went for example, I am pretty much always in agreement with Alan
Appreciate that Eric and having just watched that genuinely moving interview with Darius Charles, I’m not in the mood to argue with anyone. We all have our differing opinions, but his words underlined the one thing we do agree on-we’re fortunate to support such a wonderful little club.
The man is truly inspirational
As part of their cultural immersion our potential investors will have to come to terms with old world cynicism. The new world ‘can do’ mentality doesn’t come naturally here (sorry Boris but that’s for another day). So we won’t just swallow every initiative gratefully and unquestionably.
This is clearly a cultural misunderstanding. Pro sport in the US is family oriented, here it isn’t. Cheerleading there is a respected sporting side show, here it has no roots.
All this leads to misunderstanding. Rob is an American lawyer in the most politically correct work environment in the world. There is no way he would condone this ‘entertainment’ if he was aware of any dubious cultural context here in the UK.
He will be aware now, so, this is almost certainly a one off, indeed Pete may already have pulled the plug on his uncles behalf.
How do we know that it was entirely the Couhigs' idea? Mark Palmer says he's worked with the company before.
Just Michael Davies with more hair.
Of all the newbies he is the one who should be sorting out real issues like food and beverage / parking etc and being confident enough to tell the Yanks some things won’t fly here, not wasting time pulling in his old muckers from the ents industry.
It is interesting, like @Jonny_King pointed out, that nobody on here who is against the introduction of cheerleaders is moaning, claiming to be offended, or blaming the Couhigs. We have simply stated some well reasoned points of view for a few cavemen to throw mud at. @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull now both claiming I’ve said things that I haven’t. Never said I found it offensive, merely that it’s the opposite of what I would want my daughters to understand as their role in football. They spent the summer watching and cheering for Nikita Parris, Megan Rapinoe and however many other superstars doing incredible things in front of the world. To take them to Adams Park where women are relegated to this would be a step in the wrong direction. It may be difficult to follow along for the “political correctness gone mad” crowd, but the world has changed and some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more.
I’m off to my cave to watch the Darius Charles interview again to restore my faith in human nature and all the good things about our club.
Have edited my post because I can't be bothered to get into this argument, but @glasshalffull , your last post is a poor one.
I wonder if the ladies matches will have a load of muscle bound half naked men doing dance routines to cheer them on? So hope all this nonsense stops, football is entertainment in it's own right, or should be!
Just a quick point, I don't think the Couhigs will be quite as bothered by critical comments as you seem to be. In their interaction with fans so far they have continually asked for feedback. To their credit they have taken negative feedback on board and responded with thanks and mutual respect.
They strike me as the sort of blokes who will listen to what fans are saying about this, and appreciate the fact that we have opinions on what is happening at our football club.
You're not suggesting that anyone who isn't against cheerleaders at half time this once is a caveman are you?
I don't recall anyone saying women's role in football should be "limited" to being a cheerleader either.
I fear that you have misunderstood my point. I don’t want to get drawn into another debate about this topic, but I do object to people who don’t know me describing me as a caveman and making patronising comments about political correctness. I also object to people suggesting that I want to ogle young girls, especially when my own daughter and her friends did cheerleading at high school.
Much better to ignore the nonsense and watch again a truly inspiring interview that underlines all the good things about our club.
FFS @Malone, you chip in on these every single time, evidently without the mental capacity to understand what the grown-ups are discussing. This time you’ve managed to make two logical fallacy errors in a single post.
Trying to get to the bottom of just what you're saying, but again, you have to rely on this sort of tone instead.
If myself, @BuckinghamBlue and @glasshalffull have all misinterpreted what you said, chances are you've not explained very well.
You said "some people believe girls should be allowed to aspire to more", so I ask you, WHO is saying they shouldn't be, and by extension, who is saying they should be limited to being cheerleaders?
"Relegated to this"
"inspire to more"
How do you think these women feel about that. can you answer me. If you could extrapolate you would see the irony
And insulting people with whom you disagree is the way grown-ups behave?
@BuckinghamBlue said:
>
I may not be able to keep up with the "grown ups", but I was also wondering who on earth was relegating women to being mere entertainment, or stopping women aspiring to more, just because as a one off we've invited a dancing troupe in!!
Play football. Cheerlead. Split atoms. Watch football. Devise economic theories. Learn to cook. Drink beer. Drink babysham. Do whatever you like. Who said this is what anyone had to do? Apparently, some people want to lead cheers for a football team. I propose to let them do so and carry on with my life. Everything else seems to be projection.
yep and for the record anyone who disagrees with me is not a child or mentally deficient
If it makes a 'horde of pervs' hot under the collar I can see drinks sales going up.
)
(Though might be worth having an extra St John's Ambulance person in the Beechdean.
Can always rely on @Wendoverman to provide the chuckles and keep it light. Nice work old son.
It's not exactly Benny Hill standard I admit but I try...
Perhaps we need a pole?
To measure opinion on the topic, rather than dance on/ up/ down/ round etc.
How to improve the match day experience?
Stop playing the loathsome "Sweet Caroline" at every and any opportunity.
I think Reading started using this a few years ago. Doesn't mean we have to follow whatever other clubs do.
To me this is the one truly offensive thing that happens off the field at AP these days.
@NewburyWanderer More offensive than Elton John "Rolling like thunder under the covers" when we've just lost?
@Uncle_T Elton can sing what he likes, doesn't bother me, but the sight of hundreds of pairs of hands waving along to that pile of doo-doo certainly does.
How about letting the kids take the penalties in the actual goals again (like they used to), rather than in a cheap pitch side net (which they can do in their own back garden). Also, if a big away support, take the penalties at the away end. If memory serves, they often got a fantastic reception from the away fans.
Any chance we can play a bit of music just before a corner. (Like we did for a season a good few years back.) Not every corner, just a random one or two. If our team is prepared for it, but opposition isn't, could be an advantage. (Unless this sort of thing has now been outlawed of course.)
@A_Non_E_Mouse I don't think it's been outlawed, otherwise Lincoln wouldn't be allowed that horrific air raid siren.