I agree Oxford. It is incredibly unlikely that a respectable businessman would not be savvy enough to protect himself against any accusation of giving himself a sweetheart deal. It simply wouldn't happen in the real world.
I was actually referring to Marlowchair rather than you Aloysius. But given that you have responded and amplified, the point applies to you too. Before you effectively accuse Howard (and I see you have extended it to Stroud too now) of what would amount to fraud, I suggest you have some evidence to support that charge. Simply assuming the worst, with no basis for that assumption whatsoever, is shameful behaviour, (and potentially getting very close to libellous behaviour too).
With the club board chaired by the same person chairing the board scrutinising it, and a moribund local press, there isn't much alternative to posting questions on fan forums, so that is what I've done.
The problem with what you have done is raise the questions in a place that Mr Howard is inlikely to read and even less likely to reply. So the next step beyond your questioning, will be people jumping up and down about the continued “unanswered questions” about the sponsorship deals.
By all means ask the difficult questions, but for the love of god, do it in a place that gives the person the right and ability to reply.
Bit naive to suggest that AH is unlikely to be aware of discussion about him on what, generally speaking, is the one place where mature, intelligent supporters debate all aspects of the club !
I think we're jumping a little heavily on @Aloysius's back. I thought the original tone of his second comment was more one of gentle curiosity and musings than any finger-pointing.
The conversation has got a little more defence/attack since, but I see nothing wrong in him voicing his thoughts in the form of questions in an open forum amongst (occasionally) civilised fans who can respond and perhaps refine his and our opinions in the light of the collective wisdom of the Gasroom.
@micra said:
Bit naive to suggest that AH is unlikely to be aware of discussion about him on what, generally speaking, is the one place where mature, intelligent supporters debate all aspects of the club !
@micra said:
Bit naive to suggest that AH is unlikely to be aware of discussion about him on what, generally speaking, is the one place where mature, intelligent supporters debate all aspects of the club !
After the Alan Party debacles of the old gasroom I would suggest it’s niave to think directors aren’t discouraged from reading fans forums and certainly stopped from posting where anything will become “official” statements.
@DevC said:
Disappointing to see above a poster insinuating laziness and personal interest, almost corruption, in Mr Howard. He has produced no evidence whatsoever to support such claims apart from insinuation. Insinuations on social media have a habit of becoming accepted "facts".
my own view watching from afar is that Andrew Howard has done a remarkable job in his time at WWFC and we have reason to be very grateful to him. Can we compete financially at lg1level - probably not. Will GA defy the financial realities yet again and deliver a reasonable outcome - maybe.
No insinuation of the kind towards mr Howard Devc , you doth protest too much .
The concern I raise is a club concern and issue nothing to do with mr Howard specifically. It could and should apply to any director ( who all do a great job voluntarily ) that the club demonstrates due process and transparency on all transactions directors or their companies are involved in . Basic good practice yes ?
I asked the question of how / who is going about testing the market given our dwindling and as yet unreplaced experience in the front office? That is all , no insinuations here .
Reading back I think I see where the confusion has arisen. I stated that now the club is not so reliant on beechdean since various new businesses have been delivered , and that’s a good thing as we may no longer need beechdean at perhaps below market rates ( paraphrased)
There’s no inference of any wrong doing if the rates were below market , as at the time Howard came on board we were in a terrible state financially and commercially . I’m sure he sponsored as much out of benevolence as business reasons and we had few, if any other suitors. My point was that if we don’t need Beechdean now on those terms it’s a good thing as our stock has risen and we have “market rate “ options . Apologies if that came across wrongly
After alyoisus post I said it’s only a conflict or issue if we as a club don’t get market values first and shop for the best deal before selling to directors companies .
I know as a trust member I just want those empowered and entrusted to ensure every deal is the best on the table at that point in time .
Sorry about my lame joke about your lame joke @MindlessDrugHoover yours went right over my nut...besides the Gasroom (retd) debates I wasnt a regular during the Waddock era and therefore missed a lot of the detail of the Stadium of Booker Dreams back and forth. Or was that backhanders and forth?
Comments
I agree Oxford. It is incredibly unlikely that a respectable businessman would not be savvy enough to protect himself against any accusation of giving himself a sweetheart deal. It simply wouldn't happen in the real world.
I was actually referring to Marlowchair rather than you Aloysius. But given that you have responded and amplified, the point applies to you too. Before you effectively accuse Howard (and I see you have extended it to Stroud too now) of what would amount to fraud, I suggest you have some evidence to support that charge. Simply assuming the worst, with no basis for that assumption whatsoever, is shameful behaviour, (and potentially getting very close to libellous behaviour too).
The problem with what you have done is raise the questions in a place that Mr Howard is inlikely to read and even less likely to reply. So the next step beyond your questioning, will be people jumping up and down about the continued “unanswered questions” about the sponsorship deals.
By all means ask the difficult questions, but for the love of god, do it in a place that gives the person the right and ability to reply.
Bit naive to suggest that AH is unlikely to be aware of discussion about him on what, generally speaking, is the one place where mature, intelligent supporters debate all aspects of the club !
I meant to say, also, especially a thread with Andrew Howard as its subject !
I think we're jumping a little heavily on @Aloysius's back. I thought the original tone of his second comment was more one of gentle curiosity and musings than any finger-pointing.
The conversation has got a little more defence/attack since, but I see nothing wrong in him voicing his thoughts in the form of questions in an open forum amongst (occasionally) civilised fans who can respond and perhaps refine his and our opinions in the light of the collective wisdom of the Gasroom.
@bookertease STOP HAVING NUANCE ON THE INTERNET
I'm sure Richie will have already tipped him off.
After the Alan Party debacles of the old gasroom I would suggest it’s niave to think directors aren’t discouraged from reading fans forums and certainly stopped from posting where anything will become “official” statements.
Agree with Dr Congo, I don't come online for nuance and arguments in shades of grey.
I want players to be shit or world class, and chairmen to be crooks or demi-gods. I'm confused and I want to go home.
Alan Parry, obviously. No idea who that Alan Party fellow is but I bet he’s a delight at dinner parties.
Sounds like a glass half full kind of guy.
Sorry. I’ll write if 100 times...
......if, if, if, if, if....oh sod that.
Good point I missed them, another excellent gate tha will help
No insinuation of the kind towards mr Howard Devc , you doth protest too much .
The concern I raise is a club concern and issue nothing to do with mr Howard specifically. It could and should apply to any director ( who all do a great job voluntarily ) that the club demonstrates due process and transparency on all transactions directors or their companies are involved in . Basic good practice yes ?
I asked the question of how / who is going about testing the market given our dwindling and as yet unreplaced experience in the front office? That is all , no insinuations here .
Reading back I think I see where the confusion has arisen. I stated that now the club is not so reliant on beechdean since various new businesses have been delivered , and that’s a good thing as we may no longer need beechdean at perhaps below market rates ( paraphrased)
There’s no inference of any wrong doing if the rates were below market , as at the time Howard came on board we were in a terrible state financially and commercially . I’m sure he sponsored as much out of benevolence as business reasons and we had few, if any other suitors. My point was that if we don’t need Beechdean now on those terms it’s a good thing as our stock has risen and we have “market rate “ options . Apologies if that came across wrongly
After alyoisus post I said it’s only a conflict or issue if we as a club don’t get market values first and shop for the best deal before selling to directors companies .
I know as a trust member I just want those empowered and entrusted to ensure every deal is the best on the table at that point in time .
Dinner parries surely, @TheDancingYak .
Could be a parrydee account
Have I missed the parry?
Sorry, I meant party.
Here we go.
Ha! Glorious!
I chuckled that someone has bothered to set that up.
Not really AH but relevant to the sponsorship part of the thread. Good to see we are upgrading facilities and having them paid for by increased funding from local businesses. https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2018/june/origin-global-sponsor-new-tunnel-at-adams-park/
Hopefully we'll get new dugouts too - the current ones are far too small.
Misread that as doughnuts, thought you were having a dig at the food on offer at AP
@MindlessDrugHoover don't try and get into the dugouts then!
@Wendoverman It was a (admittedly slightly lame) joke about Steve Hayes' comments on the dugouts and why we needed a new 20,000-capacity enormodome.
Sorry about my lame joke about your lame joke @MindlessDrugHoover yours went right over my nut...besides the Gasroom (retd) debates I wasnt a regular during the Waddock era and therefore missed a lot of the detail of the Stadium of Booker Dreams back and forth. Or was that backhanders and forth?
And another “sponsorship story” on wwfc.com, really good to see the club promoting the sponsors as they give us what we need too. Hope everyone reading this will at least evaluate changing to Utilita! https://www.wycombewanderers.co.uk/news/2018/june/one-year-with-utilita-the-partnership-story-so-far/