@bookertease said:
Username - sorry it does seem to be you I keep replying to. Being pedantic your earlier point about the law viewing a violent act more seriously than a non-violent act is actually wrong.
If you look at the sentencing guidelines the action of AP if found guilty of a headbutt as described would likely be a Section 47, Category 3 likely to result in a fine and community service.
If the actions of GS had involved a racially motivated element (I'm not for one moment saying there was) and he was considered a part of a gang this would likely be a Section 29, Category 2, which in law is given the same guidelines of a fine and community service.
But as we don't actually know what happened (and we genuinely only know one version at the moment) we are in no position to assess the respective seriousness of each of their actions
The difference being that one of those things happened - a headbutt (albeit not particularly forceful)
And the other didn't - there's been no hint of racial slurs being used and that's purely been brought up through supposition.
So much has been written today about this event. I thought I would try and summarise. Person A verbally abuses Person B, (person B must have the hearing of a shit house rat as he was driving a car at the time). Still haven't got round that one yet myself. Person B is a defender for WWFC and as such normally is nearer the crowd. Person A is a supporter/paying customer/fan of WWFC. As such feels, (as do other members of his group/associates), that they have an entitlement to abuse person B both verbally and with the use of hand gestures not only within the stadium but outside on the street. Now given that B clearly has excellent hearing it is very possible that week in week out B has had to listen to unpleasantries for a long time and maybe is finding it difficult to deal with. Let's call it the woodpecker effect. Person B finds he can deal with it within the "work place", leaving work at work. Now person B goes out of his work environment minding his own when person A continues his entitled abuse, person B can no longer take the abuse and in all probability also recognises person A as a source of constant pain and finally sees the opportunity to get even. Person A no longer has the presumed anonymity of crowd cover and gets nutted. Person A should now have learnt a valuable life lesson, namely pick your fights carefully? Also don't take your issues out to a public arena, as the public will also judge.you and.take perception as fact. I'm afraid that the.NHS don't do "man up" pills, so like the rest of us older supporters person A will have to learn the way we did.
@Username - You make a good point saying you would walk past someone if they called you a c*nt (so would I if he was younger, bigger and stronger than me). Would you do the same if that person was seriously verbally abusing your wife/girlfriend/child?
@Username at the risk of repeating myself ad infinituum we don't KNOW what happened. We can make educated guesses but we still only have one version of events and one eyewitness statement. You are making an assumption that a headbutt occurred based on these statements alone. It may indeed have but at this stage it is only hearsay (I am inclined to think something like this did happen). The same applies to what GS said or did to provoke AP. We only have his version which I would guess was written when he was far more sober and may be selective with his recollection.
But I am very heartened by your deference to the laws of the land and I hope you are equally supportive if some of those yelling abuse are charged with assault
I suggest that this actually never even happened and if so wasn't witnessed by anybody reliable which means it won't go any further ...... if the police are no involved no cctv will be available due to data protection so can we draw a line until we see the starting line up tomorrow.
Andrew Howard in the Chairman of WWFC and he will tell GA if the player is suspended or not, The only people who can officially suspend AP under FA rules are the Chairman or Club Secretary the same people who can countersign contracts not the Manager
@rmjlondon The people whom you say are the only ones who can officially suspend AP maybe FACT !!, (I love the way you always go to uppercase Richie as if that makes your statement any more valid), will not do without consulting GA. My guess would be that if GA says he plays then they will go with that, on the basis that a full investigation may not have taken place, consequently guilt not yet proven?
I think u will find that GA will be told if he is available or not, GA will have no say in it and nor should he. I hope they both go at the end of the season as I for one can't bear to watch this shite football for much longer, we have good players and they are all handcuffed into playing this safe dross and we are still losing matches.
I honestly still dont understand how or why this whole debacle has happened, assuming it has! But its basically two blokes got into it very mildly, small gobby guy came off worse, which happens throughout the country most nights, now move on. Give pierre a slap on the wrist and put it to bed. I see no reason why he should be banned by the club for being a bit of a dick. I would also assume the instigator would not usually take on big black guys in general public.
@rmjlondon why would you hope that AP, one of the best defenders in this league & given us sterling service in his years here, goes at the end of the season? Strange view IMO.
The information void @wingnut . It demands to be filled.
The club really could have helped on this one. I don't think they should have made an initial statement on the matter but having done so should have said more by now. I know Ainsworth likes his secrecy but waiting to see the team sheet later to see if Pierre faces punishment is treating all the fans who don't go around abusing player in the street pretty poorly in my opinion.
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
The information void wingnut . It demands to be filled.
The club really could have helped on this one. I don't think they should have made an initial statement on the matter but having done so should have said more by now. I know Ainsworth likes his secrecy but waiting to see the team sheet later to see if Pierre faces punishment is treating all the fans who don't go around abusing player in the street pretty poorly in my opinion.
There's not really an information void though, just a section of people shutting their eyes and hoping it didn't happen by ignoring/ discounting the 2 or 3 accounts of the event.
George was a moron, goaded Pierre, who got out of his car and asked him to repeat what he said. George continued and Pierre headbutted him lightly. Both went up the club and reported it -after George had uploaded it to Twitter (something he now regrets apparently). Police were informed on clubs advice, but the complaint has since been withdrawn.
That's pretty much accepted as what happened, the exact language used could be up for debate as I've only seen George's version, but in no version was it racial and in every version is essentially that "Pierre was shit".
Hopefully it's announced that Pierre has already found a league 1 club so this is all basically irrelevant tbh, would make it a lot easier to forget about than if he was/is planning to stay.
@Username I think you have made a heck of a lot of assumptions based on hearing one side of the story. What if the 'head butt' was just a face to face chat? What if the abuse given was far worse than admitted to. In the past history was written by the victor. Now it's the first one to social media.
I still hope Aaron Pierre signs a new long term contract at Wycombe. I love watching him play. He represents everything I find good in the club I support. Lose him over this and the scum element win. What will they do next? Who's the next target?
@Right_in_the_Middle said:
Username I think you have made a heck of a lot of assumptions based on hearing one side of the story. What if the 'head butt' was just a face to face chat? What if the abuse given was far worse than admitted to. In the past history was written by the victor. Now it's the first one to social media.
I still hope Aaron Pierre signs a new long term contract at Wycombe. I love watching him play. He represents everything I find good in the club I support. Lose him over this and the scum element win. What will they do next? Who's the next target?
I've heard/read the same "version" from 3 people who were at the HG, plus George on here and they're all pretty much identical. Unless there's some mass collusion then it happened. Pretty unlikely when everyone realises there are no winners here and nothing to gain.
I also hope Pierre stays, him and Stewart together are the key to a promotion push next season, but I just can't see it happening.
The labelling of a fair proportion of fans as scum doesn't help either. Does headbutting someone in retaliation "represent everything you find good in the club"?
Comments
The difference being that one of those things happened - a headbutt (albeit not particularly forceful)
And the other didn't - there's been no hint of racial slurs being used and that's purely been brought up through supposition.
I would rather Aaron Pierre play for Wycombe again than have to read @Username defend that knob Stokes.
Having had a relaxing afternoon up the pub with a few pints, I say 'Allez Pierre' and 'fuck off Stokes you utter cunt'.
Goodnight!
I've not defended him... I've called him out of order/ an idiot, but really he's not that important.
Saying Pierre is out of order is not the same as defending the guy who he headbutted.
I'm naked
So much has been written today about this event. I thought I would try and summarise. Person A verbally abuses Person B, (person B must have the hearing of a shit house rat as he was driving a car at the time). Still haven't got round that one yet myself. Person B is a defender for WWFC and as such normally is nearer the crowd. Person A is a supporter/paying customer/fan of WWFC. As such feels, (as do other members of his group/associates), that they have an entitlement to abuse person B both verbally and with the use of hand gestures not only within the stadium but outside on the street. Now given that B clearly has excellent hearing it is very possible that week in week out B has had to listen to unpleasantries for a long time and maybe is finding it difficult to deal with. Let's call it the woodpecker effect. Person B finds he can deal with it within the "work place", leaving work at work. Now person B goes out of his work environment minding his own when person A continues his entitled abuse, person B can no longer take the abuse and in all probability also recognises person A as a source of constant pain and finally sees the opportunity to get even. Person A no longer has the presumed anonymity of crowd cover and gets nutted. Person A should now have learnt a valuable life lesson, namely pick your fights carefully? Also don't take your issues out to a public arena, as the public will also judge.you and.take perception as fact. I'm afraid that the.NHS don't do "man up" pills, so like the rest of us older supporters person A will have to learn the way we did.
@Username - You make a good point saying you would walk past someone if they called you a c*nt (so would I if he was younger, bigger and stronger than me). Would you do the same if that person was seriously verbally abusing your wife/girlfriend/child?
I'm bored
Where's the chips?
@Username at the risk of repeating myself ad infinituum we don't KNOW what happened. We can make educated guesses but we still only have one version of events and one eyewitness statement. You are making an assumption that a headbutt occurred based on these statements alone. It may indeed have but at this stage it is only hearsay (I am inclined to think something like this did happen). The same applies to what GS said or did to provoke AP. We only have his version which I would guess was written when he was far more sober and may be selective with his recollection.
But I am very heartened by your deference to the laws of the land and I hope you are equally supportive if some of those yelling abuse are charged with assault
Nine
I suggest that this actually never even happened and if so wasn't witnessed by anybody reliable which means it won't go any further ...... if the police are no involved no cctv will be available due to data protection so can we draw a line until we see the starting line up tomorrow.
I wonder if Gaz will be brave and name him in the starting lineup.
Andrew Howard will be making the decision as to his availablility not GA.
What? In the club shop?
@rmjlondon what? Not a chance will Howard be making that decision. GA runs the football domain of this club not a business man.
Andrew Howard in the Chairman of WWFC and he will tell GA if the player is suspended or not, The only people who can officially suspend AP under FA rules are the Chairman or Club Secretary the same people who can countersign contracts not the Manager
and that is FACT !!
If @rmjlondon is correct and this never even happened the George Stokes should be banned for doing this shit
@rmjlondon The people whom you say are the only ones who can officially suspend AP maybe FACT !!, (I love the way you always go to uppercase Richie as if that makes your statement any more valid), will not do without consulting GA. My guess would be that if GA says he plays then they will go with that, on the basis that a full investigation may not have taken place, consequently guilt not yet proven?
I think u will find that GA will be told if he is available or not, GA will have no say in it and nor should he. I hope they both go at the end of the season as I for one can't bear to watch this shite football for much longer, we have good players and they are all handcuffed into playing this safe dross and we are still losing matches.
I have serious doubts as to the validity of your statement. I will call my contacts within the game and get confirmation to see if you're correct.
Can't argue with that last statement
I honestly still dont understand how or why this whole debacle has happened, assuming it has! But its basically two blokes got into it very mildly, small gobby guy came off worse, which happens throughout the country most nights, now move on. Give pierre a slap on the wrist and put it to bed. I see no reason why he should be banned by the club for being a bit of a dick. I would also assume the instigator would not usually take on big black guys in general public.
@rmjlondon why would you hope that AP, one of the best defenders in this league & given us sterling service in his years here, goes at the end of the season? Strange view IMO.
It always seems that the less is known about an event the more chat there is here about it.
@wingnut I must have missed the marathon thread about the nature of the universe prior to the big bang!
The information void @wingnut . It demands to be filled.
The club really could have helped on this one. I don't think they should have made an initial statement on the matter but having done so should have said more by now. I know Ainsworth likes his secrecy but waiting to see the team sheet later to see if Pierre faces punishment is treating all the fans who don't go around abusing player in the street pretty poorly in my opinion.
There's not really an information void though, just a section of people shutting their eyes and hoping it didn't happen by ignoring/ discounting the 2 or 3 accounts of the event.
George was a moron, goaded Pierre, who got out of his car and asked him to repeat what he said. George continued and Pierre headbutted him lightly. Both went up the club and reported it -after George had uploaded it to Twitter (something he now regrets apparently). Police were informed on clubs advice, but the complaint has since been withdrawn.
That's pretty much accepted as what happened, the exact language used could be up for debate as I've only seen George's version, but in no version was it racial and in every version is essentially that "Pierre was shit".
Hopefully it's announced that Pierre has already found a league 1 club so this is all basically irrelevant tbh, would make it a lot easier to forget about than if he was/is planning to stay.
@Username I think you have made a heck of a lot of assumptions based on hearing one side of the story. What if the 'head butt' was just a face to face chat? What if the abuse given was far worse than admitted to. In the past history was written by the victor. Now it's the first one to social media.
I still hope Aaron Pierre signs a new long term contract at Wycombe. I love watching him play. He represents everything I find good in the club I support. Lose him over this and the scum element win. What will they do next? Who's the next target?
I've heard/read the same "version" from 3 people who were at the HG, plus George on here and they're all pretty much identical. Unless there's some mass collusion then it happened. Pretty unlikely when everyone realises there are no winners here and nothing to gain.
I also hope Pierre stays, him and Stewart together are the key to a promotion push next season, but I just can't see it happening.
The labelling of a fair proportion of fans as scum doesn't help either. Does headbutting someone in retaliation "represent everything you find good in the club"?