Is there interest on the debt to Hayes being paid?
If not, why would we want to pay him off straight away vs putting a big lump into a higher interest rate account (if one exists these days!) and paying the minimum each month, until it's all paid off or he starts stamping his feet up and down. Make his wait if we can.
My understanding is that we are obliged to pass the sell on fees for Ibe (and Phillips and Hause??) directly to Hayes - up to the point where the debt to him is paid.
@TheDancingYak said:
Is there interest on the debt to Hayes being paid?
If not, why would we want to pay him off straight away vs putting a big lump into a higher interest rate account (if one exists these days!) and paying the minimum each month, until it's all paid off or he starts stamping his feet up and down. Make his wait if we can.
My understanding was that Mr Hayes agreed that his loan should be repaid, interest free, over 10 years. If that is correct (and given that he is still involved to the extent of having an Executive Box) I would have thought that we should continue with the regular monthly/yearly (whatever) payments and retain the bulk of whatever we gain from the sale of Jordon Ibe.
I have to confess that my head is swimming from all the convoluted arguments and speculation in this thread.
@micra@TheDancingYak Chris is correct here. We are obliged to forward any sell-on fees received for Ibe directly to SH as debt repayments. So the first £1.3m would go to Hayes, saving us £100k per year for the next 13 years. The remainder we would keep in cash.
Probably true, vital and rightly so - on a more positive note far from impossible that Hause may move to premiership before deadline and if he does you would have thought that his fee would be not far below Ibes. If we have a sell-on on him too, finances could be completely transformed. We only have to repay Hayes once!
I'm not counting chickens until I see his picture holding a Bournemouth shirt or shaking the managers hand or holding the scarf above his head or signing the contract with the managers hand on his shoulder or preferably all of the above .
@JohnnyAllAlone@Cyclops well clearly they didn't try all the options. As I know of one lender that has given them short term loans on occasions, even as late as this summer to keep the cash flow in check. I believe that lender would have done so at the time, if asked, particularly if there was a healthy profit involved.
@Vital yes absolutely, and that would be a very sensible move. I can't remember exactly but I believe the interest due on that is around 8% pa? So if there are no penalties for early repayment that would save about £65k in interest over the remainder of the term.
@vital in which case repaying the Chairboys funders would surely be the right thing to do? £65k is a substantial sum which could allow for another playing contract. Furthermore it would release a charge on the ground which could make future borrowing easier if required. And if the income from the Ibe deal is £2.1m as reported, repaying SH and CF would still leave £350k in cash to invest as appropriate.
The word on the street from the Cherries is that the deal is done and that Jordon is in Chicago with his new team mates, but there is an embargo on announcing 'til the morning. Tomorrow could be a massive day in the history of our great club.
We cashed in our sell-on a few days before Philips was transferred to QPR on 23 Aug. He made his debut for QPR on 12 Sept. Seems pretty short term to me.
Wycombe Wanderers acknowledge the transfer of Jordon Ibe from Liverpool to AFC Bournemouth...
...and are in the process of determining the financial implications for the club as a result of the sell-on clause which was inserted into the deal which took Jordon from Adams Park to Anfield in 2011.
Wanderers are in dialogue with Liverpool and will seek to update supporters once full details have been established, adhering to confidentiality agreements within the terms of the transfer.
//
Think that's positive - the sell on clause is still clearly in place anyway!
Its a short term injury in this context in that it would have been extremely unlikely to impact negatively on a proposed transfer, especially as it was an upper body rather than leg or muscle. So the injury doesn't constitute an excuse for the disastrous decision either - as of course was proven a few days
You know the reasoning, however flawed.
Someone else put it succinctly. Along the lines of you can have 10% of infinity, but if you don't survive long enough as a club to get it, it doesn't do you any good.
The decision was made to take the fee instantly, to survive, rather than hang on for the fee, it doesn't come, and you go out of business.
Not clever in hindsight, but that's the reasoning.
But that reasoning simply doesn't work when the sell-on cash went straight to Hayes - as demonstrated in the fa investigation report. So taking the cash made no difference to the clubs cash flow or its sustainability. That excuse is simply an excuse for a baffling decision even without hindsight.
We didn't raise any funds. That is the point. So it was a baffling decision, apparently the worse single decision in the history of the club. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but this was a ridiculous decision at the time.
Comments
You know it's Bournemouth football club that have bought him, not Bournemouth airport right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOH_(drug)
Well that didn't work.
Is there interest on the debt to Hayes being paid?
If not, why would we want to pay him off straight away vs putting a big lump into a higher interest rate account (if one exists these days!) and paying the minimum each month, until it's all paid off or he starts stamping his feet up and down. Make his wait if we can.
My understanding is that we are obliged to pass the sell on fees for Ibe (and Phillips and Hause??) directly to Hayes - up to the point where the debt to him is paid.
My understanding was that Mr Hayes agreed that his loan should be repaid, interest free, over 10 years. If that is correct (and given that he is still involved to the extent of having an Executive Box) I would have thought that we should continue with the regular monthly/yearly (whatever) payments and retain the bulk of whatever we gain from the sale of Jordon Ibe.
I have to confess that my head is swimming from all the convoluted arguments and speculation in this thread.
I think I meant "spinning". It really is that bad!
@micra @TheDancingYak Chris is correct here. We are obliged to forward any sell-on fees received for Ibe directly to SH as debt repayments. So the first £1.3m would go to Hayes, saving us £100k per year for the next 13 years. The remainder we would keep in cash.
@CarrotPeeler Some of the remainder will no doubt be used or earmarked to repay other debts due in the relatively near future.
For example, the Chairboys Funders £450,000 five-year loan expires in 21 months.
Probably true, vital and rightly so - on a more positive note far from impossible that Hause may move to premiership before deadline and if he does you would have thought that his fee would be not far below Ibes. If we have a sell-on on him too, finances could be completely transformed. We only have to repay Hayes once!
I'm not counting chickens until I see his picture holding a Bournemouth shirt or shaking the managers hand or holding the scarf above his head or signing the contract with the managers hand on his shoulder or preferably all of the above .
@JohnnyAllAlone @Cyclops well clearly they didn't try all the options. As I know of one lender that has given them short term loans on occasions, even as late as this summer to keep the cash flow in check. I believe that lender would have done so at the time, if asked, particularly if there was a healthy profit involved.
@Vital yes absolutely, and that would be a very sensible move. I can't remember exactly but I believe the interest due on that is around 8% pa? So if there are no penalties for early repayment that would save about £65k in interest over the remainder of the term.
@CarrotPeeler There are no penalties for early repayment.
@vital in which case repaying the Chairboys funders would surely be the right thing to do? £65k is a substantial sum which could allow for another playing contract. Furthermore it would release a charge on the ground which could make future borrowing easier if required. And if the income from the Ibe deal is £2.1m as reported, repaying SH and CF would still leave £350k in cash to invest as appropriate.
Hause is an awesome prospect, and I expect him to play at the highest level, but he wouldn't be valued anywhere near £15M at the moment
The word on the street from the Cherries is that the deal is done and that Jordon is in Chicago with his new team mates, but there is an embargo on announcing 'til the morning. Tomorrow could be a massive day in the history of our great club.
"short term hand injury"
Broken arm.
Close Dev, close.
Done deal http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36800117
We cashed in our sell-on a few days before Philips was transferred to QPR on 23 Aug. He made his debut for QPR on 12 Sept. Seems pretty short term to me.
Spot on Dev, spot on.
Statement from the club:
Wycombe Wanderers acknowledge the transfer of Jordon Ibe from Liverpool to AFC Bournemouth...
...and are in the process of determining the financial implications for the club as a result of the sell-on clause which was inserted into the deal which took Jordon from Adams Park to Anfield in 2011.
Wanderers are in dialogue with Liverpool and will seek to update supporters once full details have been established, adhering to confidentiality agreements within the terms of the transfer.
//
Think that's positive - the sell on clause is still clearly in place anyway!
Dev, that's 3 weeks there itself. Add in the time beforehand, and is 5-7weeks short term?
Not to mention that you got the area of the injury wrong. A hand is not an arm. Whatever the rules of handball are.
"Not spot on Dev, not spot on at all"
Its a short term injury in this context in that it would have been extremely unlikely to impact negatively on a proposed transfer, especially as it was an upper body rather than leg or muscle. So the injury doesn't constitute an excuse for the disastrous decision either - as of course was proven a few days
Bang spot on, dev, bang spot on.
You know the reasoning, however flawed.
Someone else put it succinctly. Along the lines of you can have 10% of infinity, but if you don't survive long enough as a club to get it, it doesn't do you any good.
The decision was made to take the fee instantly, to survive, rather than hang on for the fee, it doesn't come, and you go out of business.
Not clever in hindsight, but that's the reasoning.
But that reasoning simply doesn't work when the sell-on cash went straight to Hayes - as demonstrated in the fa investigation report. So taking the cash made no difference to the clubs cash flow or its sustainability. That excuse is simply an excuse for a baffling decision even without hindsight.
@DevC Out of curiosity if there wasn't an urgent need to raise funds is your argument that Woodward and the board were just stupid?
I think Dev is insinuating a bit more than that. Not just stupidity, but negligence and lies.
C'mon boys, stop the bickering and celebrate this monumentous day.
We didn't raise any funds. That is the point. So it was a baffling decision, apparently the worse single decision in the history of the club. Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but this was a ridiculous decision at the time.
So dull