They are obviously not real fans just people who have found a new way to show total disregard to anything or anybody, something that you would expect in some big clubs not a club that is more family orientated, certainly when I started watching Wycombe in 1954 I don't remember trouble makers you didn't know who was an away fan untill the game started because everybody (men mainly) wore hats and belted raincoats.
Not quite true, brittanywanderer. I wasn't wearing a hat or a raincoat at Loakes Park in 1954 and, I suspect, neither were you. Both of us would have been in short trousers and either shirt or jacket.
@brittanywanderer said:
They are obviously not real fans just people who have found a new way to show total disregard to anything or anybody, something that you would expect in some big clubs not a club that is more family orientated, certainly when I started watching Wycombe in 1954 I don't remember trouble makers you didn't know who was an away fan untill the game started because everybody (men mainly) wore hats and belted raincoats.
Not real fans? I'm 20 years old and have been to over 400 Wycombe games, followed them all over the country. Just because you were at loakes park in 1954 doesn't mean your any better than anyone else. Get off your high horse and stop being a miserable prick.
Swearing and calling someone a prick in football happens? Have you never swore at the opposition keeper? Nothing more than to put them off and give them stick over 90 mins. Game over, 'abuse' over.
I have only been on this website for a few days and I can clearly see the pattern emerging, it's old people that like to be keyboard warriors and live in the past with the non ambitious future for the club I look through all the posts and it's like ban the abusers, they're not welcome at the club and other comments along those lines, what annoys me the most is that people who say I have been supporting the club since the 1950's or whatever think they are better then myself and others, I have been going on and off for about 5-10 years and I'm only 18, but that doesn't make you a better supporter then I am.
Again to go back to a comment I saw earlier about banning the group of yobs in the terrace, like I said before you ban them you will get absolutely 0 atmosphere at the ground and the club will just become an even bigger laughing stock then we already are.
A few sweeping generalisations there Aaron, but then there have been about the 'yoof' lot as well so that's probably fair enough. Personally I don't think they/you should be banned for a bit of fruity language, but at the same time can you not see that some of the behaviour from that lot is clearly bothering some of your fellow supporters and at least consider toning it down a bit?
I wouldn't ban someone for screaming the C word at a certain player for 90 minutes, but can you see why there are some people who don't want to have to put up with that, more for how boringly repetitive and unimaginative it is than anything else?
I'm 30 now, which I guess makes me old in your eyes, but I enjoy joining in the songs, especially the funny ones or the ones that support the team, but I find myself joining in fewer songs these days, as so many of them are not to my taste in terms of how abusive they are. It doesn't make me less passionate a fan, but I'd rather sing songs supporting the lads than abusing someone. So perhaps returning to more supportive songs/chants would actually see an increase in atmosphere as more might be encouraged to join in?
I know people the same age as me who have moved away from the centre of the terrace to get away from the younger lot and two others (younger than me) who have moved to a different stand entirely. These are grown men, not wilting daisies. It's not that they swoon at someone saying 'poppycock', but that they find the seemingly constant stream of invective tiresome to have to listen to, as do I to be honest, particularly from the same two or three people who seem to have anger management issues.
We all support the same side and as I said in an earlier post, your enjoyment of the game shouldn't come at the expense of that of your fellow supporters.
I admire the level of your support, especially getting to all the games (sadly no longer an option for me as things change as you get older, as no doubt they will for you too) but perhaps you could consider how some of your actions impact on your fellow fans, or indeed how they make us look to other people outside of the club. No-one's asking you to start behaving like a bunch of virgins at a Star Trek convention, but please, just consider other people.
Sadly I suspect you won't, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
Oh dear. We oldies who were at Loakes Park are merely reminiscing about 'the good old days'. We are not pretending to be any better supporters than anyone else and I, personally, have admiration for those who travel all over the country supporting the Blues. But it has to be said that the level of swearing and abusive chants has increased to the level which would now justify the club implementing its stated policy on this issue. I'm not going to repeat that policy here, you can view it on the WWFC official site. This is a 'family club' and supporters of all ages should feel comfortable when attending games. Sadly, a small minority are spoiling things for others.
@aaron_vere said:
people who say I have been supporting the club since the 1950's or whatever think they are better then myself and others, I have been going on and off for about 5-10 years and I'm only 18, but that doesn't make you a better supporter then I am.
No, but they're clearly better human beings than you are.
I agree with some of what you say Aaron - but not all. I hope this situation does not deteriorate to such an extent that banning orders are necessary. I fear it might.
May I ask you a question or two.
Why is it necessary on order to create a bit of passion and atmosphere to swear excessively. Do you think that if the group of lads didn't use for example the c-word, other teams supporters would laugh at them?
Why is it necessary at grounds where designated seating operates to stand at the game knowing that older people or children behind you therefore cannot see?
Is it not possible to create passion and atmosphere while respecting the town you are a guest in and those fellow football supporters who happen to have links to that town and club?
Why is it necessary in order to create a bit of passion and atmosphere to spend much of the game abusing your own players and supporters? Do you think other teams would laugh at them if they didn't?
Do you not think that it would be possible for this group to moderate their behaviour a little, stop damaging other supporters enjoyment of the game and show a little consideration for others while retaining and perhaps improving the passion and atmosphere created while still having fun themselves?
From my experience often at the more far flung away grounds, at times this group can be a real asset to the club. It would be a shame to lose them. But at times they let themselves and more importantly the club down. Do you agree?
Most of the opinions are very valid with exception to several bollockless accounts (drcongo) calling a 18 year old a bad human being. Stay classy mate. Why don't you all vent these frustrations and opinions on a page where the group in question are active on- Fans Facebook page? That way this can all be cleared up before the new season. As you all say, it's a small minority so you'll have no problem about being "outnumbered" if people agree with what your saying! Any thoughts?
1) the 'fight' at oxford was actually started by the oxford fan who was confronted by a fellow wycombe fan. we are not trouble makers nor go looking for trouble. so please stop making up lies.
2) designated seating does not exist so dont give me that. At times clubs like Luton,Portsmouth and Oxford try to enforce it but it dosent have an impact. majoirty of people go where they like. Portsmouth this season i was a member down the front and i did feel bad for the young children and people who wished to sit. but funny enough from the 3rd row at the back down people were sitting so there was no where for us to go? we would of happily stood at the back if there was room but people decided to sit so far back so we didnt have much choice to stand down the front. ( before you ask, no, i was not willing to sit down the front as i wished to stand)
Wow
1) why did a Wycombe "fan" need to confront the oxford fan which by your account initiated the trouble. Why not ask the stewards to deal with the incident.
2) most grounds do not have designated seating, some do. Wembley was a good example. People behind me didn't "wish" to sit, there was an elderly gentleman on sticks who struggled to even make it to his seat - he didn't choose to sit he had no bloody choice. He had no bloody choice but to sit where his ticket said he should. In front of me some inconsiderate morons who no doubt like you "were not willing to sit down the front as they wished to stand" insisted on standing and blocking his view, and for the record a number of kids too. Eventually they were persuaded to bugger off somewhere else but it spoilt my and many others enjoyment of the game for the first 20 minutes or so. Sometimes in life, human courtesy means that you have to suffer a relatively minor inconvenience to avoid someone else suffering a major one. Its a life lesson, treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, that you would to well to learn.
It seems strange to me that we are expected to accept behaviour from a small group of people which, anywhere outside football, is completely outside the norms and social conventions of civilised living, and sometimes outside the law. The distasteful attitude put forward by @wearetheyouth, and a few others, simply should not be tolerated. It is not tolerated in shopping centres, in other entertainment spaces or even in other sports. What makes football different?
I was a kid in the 70s and saw the impact of the yob culture that delivered Heysel, led to football fans being fenced in - and ultimately delivered Hillsborough. Fans have always been tribal, but what emerged then was a sub-culture of hatred that was ugly, closed-minded and evil. If that's what a few that follow WWFC seek to emulate, then the club, the police and indeed all of us should be acting to nip it in the bud.
No Wycombe follower needs to defend the virtue of this club by fighting with opposition fans. Perhaps it's even worse when among those fighting are 30, 40 and 50 years olds. Football is not a war. Other teams are not the enemy. Our grounds and our towns are not battlefields.
On the other side, there's common courtesy. Swear and abuse people in the street: you get arrested. Go into work and lace every sentence with three fs and a c - you won't have much of a career. Make minority or gender-related remarks akin to what's routinely hurled at players on the pitch, and you're up in court and plastered across the media. Yet we accept such behaviour behind the goal. And why do a small number of people get away with it? Purely because of intimidation. Because these brave hearts are never alone, but coalesce in numbers that face down the silent majority. That's where we need the club (and away clubs) to act. Not by employing minimum-wage orange coat wearers with no skill, training or authority to deal with unacceptable behaviour, but by using technology to identify the perpetrators; by creating means for those affected by their abuse of football-fandom to be able to report that abuse without fear of reprisal; and by enforcing the law, perhaps with a few timely visits from TVP to the perpetrators' homes, places of work or, indeed, places of education. But we passively sit and wait for it all to go away.
I'm as bad as any. At AP I stand near a bloke who's probably my age, near the corner of the Valley End. He's there most weeks pissed as a newt, but surrounded by a few acolytes. His 'joke' this season has been to call Jason McCarthy 'Sergio' - the joke wears thin after about 43 repetitions. But if that was just his only issue, he'd just be another terrace bore. What galls me, is that he keeps a running commentary going throughout the matches he attends, but can't manage a single sentence without slagging off our players, and peppering his already limited vocabulary with three Fs, a couple of Cs and a generous sprinkling of dildos which seem to have no relevance to anything he has to say. My daughter used come with me to games. Now she has stopped coming. I'm not going to be driven from my accustomed place on the terrace, so why don't I confront this guy? Frankly, he appears aggressive and is surrounded by his gurning mates. I don't want to be hit. That's not how it should be. Almost all of us swear at football. Almost all of us vent our frustration. But there are limits - and the limits acceptable outside the ground should be the same once we step through the turnstiles.
I go back to Edmund Burke: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. There are a few too young on here to see that the route they are taking is one that bullies, that intimidates and is simply wrong-headed. Do we do nothing and allow them to dominate?
@wycombeloyal said:
1) the 'fight' at oxford was actually started by the oxford fan who was confronted by a fellow wycombe fan. we are not trouble makers nor go looking for trouble. so please stop making up lies.
2) designated seating does not exist so dont give me that. At times clubs like Luton,Portsmouth and Oxford try to enforce it but it dosent have an impact. majoirty of people go where they like. Portsmouth this season i was a member down the front and i did feel bad for the young children and people who wished to sit. but funny enough from the 3rd row at the back down people were sitting so there was no where for us to go? we would of happily stood at the back if there was room but people decided to sit so far back so we didnt have much choice to stand down the front. ( before you ask, no, i was not willing to sit down the front as i wished to stand)
Spot on. Don't see why we should have to sit down at 'big' away games just because some people choose to come to the Oxford, Portsmouth games etc...I stood at Carlisle morecambe Halifax Plymouth and will do the same next season
Excellent post leapfrog, probably the best on this subject. What to do?? The club needs to get a serious grip on this.Totally agree with the orange coat brigade,they are next to useless. First 6 home and away games next season a proper steward team, backed up by the Police, should identify and sling out those that are over the top...it's dead easy to identify the foul mouthed ring leaders and there are only half a dozen that stir up the following sheep. Get them out and the sheep will revert to normal type. Get a team of our stewards, some decent stewards not kids, to the first 6 away games, backed up by the rozzers and do the same. It's way beyond time action was taken against these morons. Who knows just how many people are being put off by coming because of these idiots, I know of several who have stopped coming.
@leapfrog said:
It seems strange to me that we are expected to accept behaviour from a small group of people which, anywhere outside football, is completely outside the norms and social conventions of civilised living, and sometimes outside the law. The distasteful attitude put forward by wearetheyouth, and a few others, simply should not be tolerated. It is not tolerated in shopping centres, in other entertainment spaces or even in other sports. What makes football different?
I was a kid in the 70s and saw the impact of the yob culture that delivered Heysel, led to football fans being fenced in - and ultimately delivered Hillsborough. Fans have always been tribal, but what emerged then was a sub-culture of hatred that was ugly, closed-minded and evil. If that's what a few that follow WWFC seek to emulate, then the club, the police and indeed all of us should be acting to nip it in the bud.
No Wycombe follower needs to defend the virtue of this club by fighting with opposition fans. Perhaps it's even worse when among those fighting are 30, 40 and 50 years olds. Football is not a war. Other teams are not the enemy. Our grounds and our towns are not battlefields.
On the other side, there's common courtesy. Swear and abuse people in the street: you get arrested. Go into work and lace every sentence with three fs and a c - you won't have much of a career. Make minority or gender-related remarks akin to what's routinely hurled at players on the pitch, and you're up in court and plastered across the media. Yet we accept such behaviour behind the goal. And why do a small number of people get away with it? Purely because of intimidation. Because these brave hearts are never alone, but coalesce in numbers that face down the silent majority. That's where we need the club (and away clubs) to act. Not by employing minimum-wage orange coat wearers with no skill, training or authority to deal with unacceptable behaviour, but by using technology to identify the perpetrators; by creating means for those affected by their abuse of football-fandom to be able to report that abuse without fear of reprisal; and by enforcing the law, perhaps with a few timely visits from TVP to the perpetrators' homes, places of work or, indeed, places of education. But we passively sit and wait for it all to go away.
I'm as bad as any. At AP I stand near a bloke who's probably my age, near the corner of the Valley End. He's there most weeks pissed as a newt, but surrounded by a few acolytes. His 'joke' this season has been to call Jason McCarthy 'Sergio' - the joke wears thin after about 43 repetitions. But if that was just his only issue, he'd just be another terrace bore. What galls me, is that he keeps a running commentary going throughout the matches he attends, but can't manage a single sentence without slagging off our players, and peppering his already limited vocabulary with three Fs, a couple of Cs and a generous sprinkling of dildos which seem to have no relevance to anything he has to say. My daughter used come with me to games. Now she has stopped coming. I'm not going to be driven from my accustomed place on the terrace, so why don't I confront this guy? Frankly, he appears aggressive and is surrounded by his gurning mates. I don't want to be hit. That's not how it should be. Almost all of us swear at football. Almost all of us vent our frustration. But there are limits - and the limits acceptable outside the ground should be the same once we step through the turnstiles.
I go back to Edmund Burke: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. There are a few too young on here to see that the route they are taking is one that bullies, that intimidates and is simply wrong-headed. Do we do nothing and allow them to dominate?
My supposed distasteful attitude towards others is slightly unfair, I'm not saying I go to every game to abuse the keeper, I don't go to each game to make anyone's day a bad experience, I haven't even said I'm in this group you've automatically associated me with, I'm defending what i know as very few individuals are on the gas room from that group! As I said to another member earlier, why don't you all get together and forward these points and opinions onto the fan Facebook page, I understand all won't have Facebook or want to reveal who they are but surely if this group is as disruptive and small as you say, you won't be outnumbered when it comes to putting your views across?
I have been attending Wycombe games, home and away, for a couple of decades now - a fact that I mention here only because it is relevant to the point I intend to make and not in order to try to claim any superiority over anyone else on the basis of number of games attended - initially on my own, then with friends and for the past four seasons with my primary school age children.
I have never had any problem or need to take issue with those Wycombe fans who like to stand on the terrace or at the back of seated stands, make some noise and wind up the opposition; until this season, that is, although the Wembley match hinted at what was to come. As this season ends, however, I must sadly say that other Wycombe fans have spoiled my and my family's enjoyment of games on a number of occasions.
Standing in seated areas has been a particular problem for my kids, lessening their enjoyment and, for one of them, putting her off attending. After one experience, when subsequently asked if she wanted to come to an away game her first response was "Will there be people standing in front of us?". The clear inference from that was that, if I said yes, she would be less inclined to come along. I have no issue with people standing at the back and am happy to move to allow them to do so. Standing elsewhere is simply unnecessary and selfish. At both Luton and Northampton we were sat just four and three rows back, respectively. All those in front of us at Luton would have had a clear view of all the action without needing to stand, but stand they did. On that occasion we could not move anywhere else because there was very little space elsewhere to move to.
At Northampton, with only two rows in front of us and a clear view of the pitch, the guy in the seat next to my son's firstly stood up, thus blocking my son's view of one corner of the pitch, then moved sideways to stand squarely in front of my son as he sat in his seat. This was utterly selfish and unnecessary and performed knowingly, whilst deliberately avoiding eye contact with and acknowledgement of those being affected. Note: This person was not a youth; simply ignorant.
Aston Villa away was a case where a bunch of guys decided to stand and block several people's views, despite (a) them being at the front row of a tiered section with unobstructed views and (b) there being plenty of space further back that they could have moved to, since the stand that they were in - Upper Tier at the side of the pitch - was not full.
Regarding foul language and abuse, it has previously been easy to joke away the bad language with my kids, tell them not to repeat it in front of Mum, and let it be. This season's favourite "Why you're a c***" song, sung at almost any player who has had a previous involvement with the club, is far harder to cover up or explain away. I do hope this one is a passing fad that will fade out of use.
I know this is a long post, but a final thought from last May's visit to Wembley. A lot of families who don't regularly attend Adams Park come along that day to support Wycombe Wanderers on their big day out. What a wonderful opportunity for the club to gain new supporters. Several of those families will, unfortunately, have had their expensive day out ruined by inconsiderate people who chose (a) to stand and block their view and (b) in some reported cases, to respond in an aggressive and abusive manner when asked to do the decent thing, sit down and allow others to see the on pitch action. I wonder how many of those families decided on that day never to trouble the attendance figures at Adams Park again.
It's quite amusing that @wycombelad gets touchy about old supporters making out they're better cos they went to Loakes Park but constantly insinuates he and pals are better supporters because they go to far flung grounds.
Us ageds have seen it all before mate. When you're young and travelling the land it's a right laugh and it will be some of the best days of your life, before you and your mates get married and slowly drift off to a more relaxed form of support. I think the main argument is that you don't need to be screaming 'cunt' at people and abusing your fellow supporters while you're doing it.
Your group do create a decent and welcome bit of noise, but where's the class? Where's the wit?
@MBS said:
Excellent post leapfrog, probably the best on this subject. What to do?? The club needs to get a serious grip on this.Totally agree with the orange coat brigade,they are next to useless. First 6 home and away games next season a proper steward team, backed up by the Police, should identify and sling out those that are over the top...it's dead easy to identify the foul mouthed ring leaders and there are only half a dozen that stir up the following sheep. Get them out and the sheep will revert to normal type. Get a team of our stewards, some decent stewards not kids, to the first 6 away games, backed up by the rozzers and do the same. It's way beyond time action was taken against these morons. Who knows just how many people are being put off by coming because of these idiots, I know of several who have stopped coming.
Most people would be put off with the lack of good football on display,but you keep telling yourself we're doing well and it's the young foul mouthed yobs doing the damage to our average attendances after an average mid table finish this season.
A fact is, there was far more football related violence at Loakes Park than there has ever been at Adams Park. I get as pissed off as the next person, with the lack of wit, humour,originality and the constant use of the 'c' word from behind the goal. But anyone who attended games in the 70's and 80's, is treading on dangerous ground, if they want to tell how todays youth should behave.
@arnos_grove said:
It's quite amusing that wycombelad gets touchy about old supporters making out they're better cos they went to Loakes Park but constantly insinuates he and pals are better supporters because they go to far flung grounds.
Us ageds have seen it all before mate. When you're young and travelling the land it's a right laugh and it will be some of the best days of your life, before you and your mates get married and slowly drift off to a more relaxed form of support. I think the main argument is that you don't need to be screaming 'cunt' at people and abusing your fellow supporters while you're doing it.
Your group do create a decent and welcome bit of noise, but where's the class? Where's the wit?
Nailed every point from both sides. Everyone was young once, some obviously seem to forget the times they would've experienced whilst young. Use of the c word is too frequent but no one can claim it hasn't been used in the past previous seasons.
@wycombeloyal said:
Someone above asked 'how are we a laughing stock?' give me a few hours after i post this whole discussion on social media and i'll show you...
I can tell you now. It's because a bargain bucket boy band can't quite handle their WKD.
Comments
Chuckled at the description of Old Dennis.
Permanently drunk, and hanging about with a bunch of 20 year olds as a 50+ year old.
Great look!
He is university educated though
They are obviously not real fans just people who have found a new way to show total disregard to anything or anybody, something that you would expect in some big clubs not a club that is more family orientated, certainly when I started watching Wycombe in 1954 I don't remember trouble makers you didn't know who was an away fan untill the game started because everybody (men mainly) wore hats and belted raincoats.
Not quite true, brittanywanderer. I wasn't wearing a hat or a raincoat at Loakes Park in 1954 and, I suspect, neither were you. Both of us would have been in short trousers and either shirt or jacket.
Lordmandeville You are probably right it was a long time ago ,it's true I didn't wear a hat.
Not real fans? I'm 20 years old and have been to over 400 Wycombe games, followed them all over the country. Just because you were at loakes park in 1954 doesn't mean your any better than anyone else. Get off your high horse and stop being a miserable prick.
Swearing and calling someone a prick in football happens? Have you never swore at the opposition keeper? Nothing more than to put them off and give them stick over 90 mins. Game over, 'abuse' over.
We've all called Mickey Bell a judas, though calling anyone you can recognise as an ex-player a see you next tuesday is just pathetic.
I have only been on this website for a few days and I can clearly see the pattern emerging, it's old people that like to be keyboard warriors and live in the past with the non ambitious future for the club I look through all the posts and it's like ban the abusers, they're not welcome at the club and other comments along those lines, what annoys me the most is that people who say I have been supporting the club since the 1950's or whatever think they are better then myself and others, I have been going on and off for about 5-10 years and I'm only 18, but that doesn't make you a better supporter then I am.
Again to go back to a comment I saw earlier about banning the group of yobs in the terrace, like I said before you ban them you will get absolutely 0 atmosphere at the ground and the club will just become an even bigger laughing stock then we already are.
A few sweeping generalisations there Aaron, but then there have been about the 'yoof' lot as well so that's probably fair enough. Personally I don't think they/you should be banned for a bit of fruity language, but at the same time can you not see that some of the behaviour from that lot is clearly bothering some of your fellow supporters and at least consider toning it down a bit?
I wouldn't ban someone for screaming the C word at a certain player for 90 minutes, but can you see why there are some people who don't want to have to put up with that, more for how boringly repetitive and unimaginative it is than anything else?
I'm 30 now, which I guess makes me old in your eyes, but I enjoy joining in the songs, especially the funny ones or the ones that support the team, but I find myself joining in fewer songs these days, as so many of them are not to my taste in terms of how abusive they are. It doesn't make me less passionate a fan, but I'd rather sing songs supporting the lads than abusing someone. So perhaps returning to more supportive songs/chants would actually see an increase in atmosphere as more might be encouraged to join in?
I know people the same age as me who have moved away from the centre of the terrace to get away from the younger lot and two others (younger than me) who have moved to a different stand entirely. These are grown men, not wilting daisies. It's not that they swoon at someone saying 'poppycock', but that they find the seemingly constant stream of invective tiresome to have to listen to, as do I to be honest, particularly from the same two or three people who seem to have anger management issues.
We all support the same side and as I said in an earlier post, your enjoyment of the game shouldn't come at the expense of that of your fellow supporters.
I admire the level of your support, especially getting to all the games (sadly no longer an option for me as things change as you get older, as no doubt they will for you too) but perhaps you could consider how some of your actions impact on your fellow fans, or indeed how they make us look to other people outside of the club. No-one's asking you to start behaving like a bunch of virgins at a Star Trek convention, but please, just consider other people.
Sadly I suspect you won't, but I'd love to be proved wrong.
Oh dear. We oldies who were at Loakes Park are merely reminiscing about 'the good old days'. We are not pretending to be any better supporters than anyone else and I, personally, have admiration for those who travel all over the country supporting the Blues. But it has to be said that the level of swearing and abusive chants has increased to the level which would now justify the club implementing its stated policy on this issue. I'm not going to repeat that policy here, you can view it on the WWFC official site. This is a 'family club' and supporters of all ages should feel comfortable when attending games. Sadly, a small minority are spoiling things for others.
No, but they're clearly better human beings than you are.
I agree with some of what you say Aaron - but not all. I hope this situation does not deteriorate to such an extent that banning orders are necessary. I fear it might.
May I ask you a question or two.
Why is it necessary on order to create a bit of passion and atmosphere to swear excessively. Do you think that if the group of lads didn't use for example the c-word, other teams supporters would laugh at them?
Why is it necessary at grounds where designated seating operates to stand at the game knowing that older people or children behind you therefore cannot see?
Is it not possible to create passion and atmosphere while respecting the town you are a guest in and those fellow football supporters who happen to have links to that town and club?
Why is it necessary in order to create a bit of passion and atmosphere to spend much of the game abusing your own players and supporters? Do you think other teams would laugh at them if they didn't?
Do you not think that it would be possible for this group to moderate their behaviour a little, stop damaging other supporters enjoyment of the game and show a little consideration for others while retaining and perhaps improving the passion and atmosphere created while still having fun themselves?
From my experience often at the more far flung away grounds, at times this group can be a real asset to the club. It would be a shame to lose them. But at times they let themselves and more importantly the club down. Do you agree?
Many thanks.
Most of the opinions are very valid with exception to several bollockless accounts (drcongo) calling a 18 year old a bad human being. Stay classy mate. Why don't you all vent these frustrations and opinions on a page where the group in question are active on- Fans Facebook page? That way this can all be cleared up before the new season. As you all say, it's a small minority so you'll have no problem about being "outnumbered" if people agree with what your saying! Any thoughts?
1) the 'fight' at oxford was actually started by the oxford fan who was confronted by a fellow wycombe fan. we are not trouble makers nor go looking for trouble. so please stop making up lies.
2) designated seating does not exist so dont give me that. At times clubs like Luton,Portsmouth and Oxford try to enforce it but it dosent have an impact. majoirty of people go where they like. Portsmouth this season i was a member down the front and i did feel bad for the young children and people who wished to sit. but funny enough from the 3rd row at the back down people were sitting so there was no where for us to go? we would of happily stood at the back if there was room but people decided to sit so far back so we didnt have much choice to stand down the front. ( before you ask, no, i was not willing to sit down the front as i wished to stand)
Wow
1) why did a Wycombe "fan" need to confront the oxford fan which by your account initiated the trouble. Why not ask the stewards to deal with the incident.
2) most grounds do not have designated seating, some do. Wembley was a good example. People behind me didn't "wish" to sit, there was an elderly gentleman on sticks who struggled to even make it to his seat - he didn't choose to sit he had no bloody choice. He had no bloody choice but to sit where his ticket said he should. In front of me some inconsiderate morons who no doubt like you "were not willing to sit down the front as they wished to stand" insisted on standing and blocking his view, and for the record a number of kids too. Eventually they were persuaded to bugger off somewhere else but it spoilt my and many others enjoyment of the game for the first 20 minutes or so. Sometimes in life, human courtesy means that you have to suffer a relatively minor inconvenience to avoid someone else suffering a major one. Its a life lesson, treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, that you would to well to learn.
@aaron_vere Why do you think the club is a 'laughing stock.'
It seems strange to me that we are expected to accept behaviour from a small group of people which, anywhere outside football, is completely outside the norms and social conventions of civilised living, and sometimes outside the law. The distasteful attitude put forward by @wearetheyouth, and a few others, simply should not be tolerated. It is not tolerated in shopping centres, in other entertainment spaces or even in other sports. What makes football different?
I was a kid in the 70s and saw the impact of the yob culture that delivered Heysel, led to football fans being fenced in - and ultimately delivered Hillsborough. Fans have always been tribal, but what emerged then was a sub-culture of hatred that was ugly, closed-minded and evil. If that's what a few that follow WWFC seek to emulate, then the club, the police and indeed all of us should be acting to nip it in the bud.
No Wycombe follower needs to defend the virtue of this club by fighting with opposition fans. Perhaps it's even worse when among those fighting are 30, 40 and 50 years olds. Football is not a war. Other teams are not the enemy. Our grounds and our towns are not battlefields.
On the other side, there's common courtesy. Swear and abuse people in the street: you get arrested. Go into work and lace every sentence with three fs and a c - you won't have much of a career. Make minority or gender-related remarks akin to what's routinely hurled at players on the pitch, and you're up in court and plastered across the media. Yet we accept such behaviour behind the goal. And why do a small number of people get away with it? Purely because of intimidation. Because these brave hearts are never alone, but coalesce in numbers that face down the silent majority. That's where we need the club (and away clubs) to act. Not by employing minimum-wage orange coat wearers with no skill, training or authority to deal with unacceptable behaviour, but by using technology to identify the perpetrators; by creating means for those affected by their abuse of football-fandom to be able to report that abuse without fear of reprisal; and by enforcing the law, perhaps with a few timely visits from TVP to the perpetrators' homes, places of work or, indeed, places of education. But we passively sit and wait for it all to go away.
I'm as bad as any. At AP I stand near a bloke who's probably my age, near the corner of the Valley End. He's there most weeks pissed as a newt, but surrounded by a few acolytes. His 'joke' this season has been to call Jason McCarthy 'Sergio' - the joke wears thin after about 43 repetitions. But if that was just his only issue, he'd just be another terrace bore. What galls me, is that he keeps a running commentary going throughout the matches he attends, but can't manage a single sentence without slagging off our players, and peppering his already limited vocabulary with three Fs, a couple of Cs and a generous sprinkling of dildos which seem to have no relevance to anything he has to say. My daughter used come with me to games. Now she has stopped coming. I'm not going to be driven from my accustomed place on the terrace, so why don't I confront this guy? Frankly, he appears aggressive and is surrounded by his gurning mates. I don't want to be hit. That's not how it should be. Almost all of us swear at football. Almost all of us vent our frustration. But there are limits - and the limits acceptable outside the ground should be the same once we step through the turnstiles.
I go back to Edmund Burke: All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. There are a few too young on here to see that the route they are taking is one that bullies, that intimidates and is simply wrong-headed. Do we do nothing and allow them to dominate?
Spot on. Don't see why we should have to sit down at 'big' away games just because some people choose to come to the Oxford, Portsmouth games etc...I stood at Carlisle morecambe Halifax Plymouth and will do the same next season
Great post!
Excellent post leapfrog, probably the best on this subject. What to do?? The club needs to get a serious grip on this.Totally agree with the orange coat brigade,they are next to useless. First 6 home and away games next season a proper steward team, backed up by the Police, should identify and sling out those that are over the top...it's dead easy to identify the foul mouthed ring leaders and there are only half a dozen that stir up the following sheep. Get them out and the sheep will revert to normal type. Get a team of our stewards, some decent stewards not kids, to the first 6 away games, backed up by the rozzers and do the same. It's way beyond time action was taken against these morons. Who knows just how many people are being put off by coming because of these idiots, I know of several who have stopped coming.
My supposed distasteful attitude towards others is slightly unfair, I'm not saying I go to every game to abuse the keeper, I don't go to each game to make anyone's day a bad experience, I haven't even said I'm in this group you've automatically associated me with, I'm defending what i know as very few individuals are on the gas room from that group! As I said to another member earlier, why don't you all get together and forward these points and opinions onto the fan Facebook page, I understand all won't have Facebook or want to reveal who they are but surely if this group is as disruptive and small as you say, you won't be outnumbered when it comes to putting your views across?
I have been attending Wycombe games, home and away, for a couple of decades now - a fact that I mention here only because it is relevant to the point I intend to make and not in order to try to claim any superiority over anyone else on the basis of number of games attended - initially on my own, then with friends and for the past four seasons with my primary school age children.
I have never had any problem or need to take issue with those Wycombe fans who like to stand on the terrace or at the back of seated stands, make some noise and wind up the opposition; until this season, that is, although the Wembley match hinted at what was to come. As this season ends, however, I must sadly say that other Wycombe fans have spoiled my and my family's enjoyment of games on a number of occasions.
Standing in seated areas has been a particular problem for my kids, lessening their enjoyment and, for one of them, putting her off attending. After one experience, when subsequently asked if she wanted to come to an away game her first response was "Will there be people standing in front of us?". The clear inference from that was that, if I said yes, she would be less inclined to come along. I have no issue with people standing at the back and am happy to move to allow them to do so. Standing elsewhere is simply unnecessary and selfish. At both Luton and Northampton we were sat just four and three rows back, respectively. All those in front of us at Luton would have had a clear view of all the action without needing to stand, but stand they did. On that occasion we could not move anywhere else because there was very little space elsewhere to move to.
At Northampton, with only two rows in front of us and a clear view of the pitch, the guy in the seat next to my son's firstly stood up, thus blocking my son's view of one corner of the pitch, then moved sideways to stand squarely in front of my son as he sat in his seat. This was utterly selfish and unnecessary and performed knowingly, whilst deliberately avoiding eye contact with and acknowledgement of those being affected. Note: This person was not a youth; simply ignorant.
Aston Villa away was a case where a bunch of guys decided to stand and block several people's views, despite (a) them being at the front row of a tiered section with unobstructed views and (b) there being plenty of space further back that they could have moved to, since the stand that they were in - Upper Tier at the side of the pitch - was not full.
Regarding foul language and abuse, it has previously been easy to joke away the bad language with my kids, tell them not to repeat it in front of Mum, and let it be. This season's favourite "Why you're a c***" song, sung at almost any player who has had a previous involvement with the club, is far harder to cover up or explain away. I do hope this one is a passing fad that will fade out of use.
I know this is a long post, but a final thought from last May's visit to Wembley. A lot of families who don't regularly attend Adams Park come along that day to support Wycombe Wanderers on their big day out. What a wonderful opportunity for the club to gain new supporters. Several of those families will, unfortunately, have had their expensive day out ruined by inconsiderate people who chose (a) to stand and block their view and (b) in some reported cases, to respond in an aggressive and abusive manner when asked to do the decent thing, sit down and allow others to see the on pitch action. I wonder how many of those families decided on that day never to trouble the attendance figures at Adams Park again.
It's quite amusing that @wycombelad gets touchy about old supporters making out they're better cos they went to Loakes Park but constantly insinuates he and pals are better supporters because they go to far flung grounds.
Us ageds have seen it all before mate. When you're young and travelling the land it's a right laugh and it will be some of the best days of your life, before you and your mates get married and slowly drift off to a more relaxed form of support. I think the main argument is that you don't need to be screaming 'cunt' at people and abusing your fellow supporters while you're doing it.
Your group do create a decent and welcome bit of noise, but where's the class? Where's the wit?
Someone above asked 'how are we a laughing stock?' give me a few hours after i post this whole discussion on social media and i'll show you...
Most people would be put off with the lack of good football on display,but you keep telling yourself we're doing well and it's the young foul mouthed yobs doing the damage to our average attendances after an average mid table finish this season.
@arnos_grove I'm not sure if you've got your wycombelads and your wycombeloyals mixed up here.
@leapfrog sounds like we need to reform the gasroom's Booker Death Squad and get this bloke dealth with
A fact is, there was far more football related violence at Loakes Park than there has ever been at Adams Park. I get as pissed off as the next person, with the lack of wit, humour,originality and the constant use of the 'c' word from behind the goal. But anyone who attended games in the 70's and 80's, is treading on dangerous ground, if they want to tell how todays youth should behave.
Nailed every point from both sides. Everyone was young once, some obviously seem to forget the times they would've experienced whilst young. Use of the c word is too frequent but no one can claim it hasn't been used in the past previous seasons.
I can tell you now. It's because a bargain bucket boy band can't quite handle their WKD.