@NewburyWanderer Thanks for the correction! I'm amazed at that. Perhaps I'm just remembering that spell towards the end of the play off season where we pulled in 9k+ V Sheffield Wednesday and 8k + V Oxford and Plymouth in the run in.
Due to the fact I live over 2 hours away by train, as well as the cost of the trains even after the discount with a Senior Railcard, food/drink and match ticket I find it difficult in the extreme to justify regular visits to Adams Park.
In my teens (pre-uni) I did most home games and a fair few away games - to be fair it was Loakes Park & Isthmian League days.
Post uni I found myself in Chelmsford with a young family & Saturday's taken up with playing hockey, so footie went out the window.
By way of compensation & so the club gets something from me I buy an annual Wanderers TV pass, am a Trust member etc.
I meant to also add my experience of other clubs (football, rugby, hockey & cricket) is that you need to
embed yourself in the local community
ensure you provide lots of engaging & fun opportunities for children & teens especially during school holidays
have junior teams - in our case with no academy these should be affiliated clubs, where we offer them support with the cost of kits or help their coaches get their badges etc.
build real engagement with local schools
Think about low cost offers on tickets rather than free and dress it up as an investment of their time in the club
Offer half time entertainment that appeals to all ages (kids penalty shoot outs are great)
Ensure you offer kids portions at kids prices on food and drink
All of these will build an affection/affinity to the club & see younger attendance increase, though the best way to attract more people is to play attractive (not necessarily winning...) football rather than some of the dirge fests we have witnessed this season; on this i do think we are seeing decent signs of improvement.
It's a huge shame that the community scheme side has taken so long to regrow. I was given an old programme from 2000 and the community section in that says over 700 kids were signed up in advance for WWFC summer camps throughout Bucks and Berks. All of those received Wycombe merch and ticket offers.
Agreed on the other smaller events, these were also have been organised through the scheme so I suspect it's simply down to resource - although I know WWSET is expanding again so maybe an email of suggestions to them could spark a renewal of those days....
I started coming to AP because my daughter a kids go free ticket at her school. She got the bug and we got STs until she post interest. I blame her that I didn't. I don't sit the the Family Stand though.
We should be advertising in Aylesbury the way MK do!
I’ve said on here before and even suggested to the club directly, a big issue is where you can sit in the family stand. There’s very rarely a set of seats available centrally and on the wings in the lower tier it’s a bit naff. Why on earth they can’t consider offering the one of the two end blocks on the top tier at family stand kids prices is beyond me as it’s a better alternative option for families to choose this view, without such a big jump in cost for a child’s ticket. It was only 18 months ago that we were discussing this as the family stand was nearly always sold out.
From a father of a 4 and 7 year old, I can tell you the 2 main factors, in order of inconvenience are:
(1) Price
My 4 year old isn't quite ready to sit out a game, but my 7 year old LOVES Wycombe. He has a season ticket (so that I can attend Tuesday night games with it, and so that I we get first refusal on away and cup games). I buy my ticket whenever we can make it. My wife works Saturdays so childcare for my 3 year old is not feasible, nor is a £30 ticket, £5/10 parking, £9 burger, drinks etc. I can't afford to do it. And when my 3 year old is old enough to come, I'm going to feel terrible. The games we go to will be very few and far between. In an ideal world, I would go EVERY week home and away when they are both old enough.
I've bought the home and away kits last season - totaling close to £150, the home kit for myself, and my 7 year old plays for the WWFC development academy, so had to get the new home kit for another £110, plus the weekly training/match fees. Which is fine. That's as much as we can support our club at this stage.
(2) Weather
My 4 year old will definitely not last a game in this weather, and the 7 year old will JUST ABOUT. Rather than have to carry round a million layers and deal with "I'm too hot", "I'm too cold" - I'd rather just give it a miss. It's such a shame because I live for football and would love NOTHING more than to take my boys every week like my Dad did when I was a kid - but the experience is just not enjoyable (from a selfish point of view).
Why don't the club trial a scheme where if you collect points, you can get discount on the next seasons' kit (for kids to start with)?
There needs to be an incentive for adults to bring their kids. A free beer, a discount for the clubshop, a free kids burger when you buy an adult one....something just to help us Dad's out. I speak for one family and that's 3 people extra that would LOVE to come every week! If there are say 200 families in my situation, that's an immediate remedy.
Overall, it’s a huge combination of issues that have been debated ad nauseum but barely touched by the club. I feel like the powers that be treat these grumbles as an unwelcome and ungrateful annoyance despite the fact that people are clearly voting with their feet. Streaming must be having a mild effect, parking and location has always been an issue, albeit AP takes no longer to leave than Reading!! Transport connections are pretty poor, the lack of presence in the town, no more Junior Blues club (?), naff all to do for kids during the long pre-match wait and barely a match announcement until 2.55pm. Etc. Oh, and the pricing…£29 for 1 adult and 1 child in the Family Stand.
As a parent of similar aged children, I can relate a lot to what @thecatwwfc has said. My 7 year-old play for Holmer Green and an ‘academy’ (glorified extra training) so supporting those endeavours takes up cash and time. The 4 year old is starting gymnastics (more money) and no doubt lots of families feel the same pinch with lots of competing priorities for their time and money.
I used to be a ST holder, have been through the thick and thin and love that I can now go with my boy and even do the odd away day. But it’s bloody expensive and not something I can sustain for 23-30 games a season so I do 6-8 instead with the odd local non-league game thrown in.
FWIW, attendees (the parents at least) of WWFC summer camps get discounted tickets for the Family Day events (the seats in the away end) and the take-up of this has been good in recent years (even though they’ve put up the admittedly piecemeal discounted ticket prices) but these events are few and far between.
I bet if you plot our average attendance against our average league position, the former directly follows the latter.
Yes, things like better access, a strong economy, passing football, clean toilets, hot chips, decent burgers, half time penalties, and reasonable prices can bring the baseline up a little bit.
But what ultimately gets people through the turnstiles is winning. It's been a rough season, the attendances reflect that. But when we could win a trophy, suddenly we'll get 15k supporters paying £45 travelling all the way to Wembley rather than the end of Hillbottom Road.
That will always be the case, but surely the aim is for us to get 5-6,000 in the average times and 8-9,000 in the good times rather than what we have now
But we have a finite budget - my argument is that its better to invest each £ in the playing squad to get wins, than to refurb the toilets if you're chasing higher attendances.
Hmmm. Investing all our £££s in the playing squad to get wins. That's an interesting idea. I'm slightly surprised no other clubs have thought of that...
(And sorry. Your central point about a winning team being far more important to improving attendances than some fried onions with your hot dog is valid. Just that it is a lot easier to implement a decent amount of control over the latter* than enable the former).
Yes, winning or at least the perception of success counts for a lot. Yet we've come through a period when times were never better on the playing/winning front and we're down to c.4k home fans. Bumping that up with an extra 500-1000 seems like a reasonable and achievable goal.
I would argue that whilst winning is improtant, what is more important is to be entertained and to see total committment and effort from the team in each & every match.
Attractive football is very subjective, I think the "modern" version of football which a lot of fans deem "attractive" (especially non playing internet xG warrior type fans) is dull as dishwater....
More frustrating losing the ball more often playing more direct but there's more chances when you take more risks with the ball
Kids also Iove a hero character, we can never match Bayo for that - I’ve met visitors to AP from Saudi, Spain, Greece all who came to just see the Beast in the flesh and follow the club because of him, plenty of FIFA kids will be the same.
That's progress from earlier in the season where it just wasn't there at all (I still have nightmares about Exeter away). Still work to do, but things seem to be heading in the right direction.
Pre-kids my reasons for not going would NEVER have included the weather or the price, but both of those impact the decision making and also how much you want in return for your experience.
I can quite easily get myself out the door, pay for a ticket, sit in uncomfortable weather conditions AND still find it enjoyable, but when you have to do all that for another person (who is not that fussed yet), just becomes a lot more difficult,
Why not try "Kids for a quid" week? About two or three times a season, when you are playing someone who will not bring a big following. Yes, It only brings £1 into the club for each child, Some of those children may become an ardent supporter in the future. My club does do this sort of promotion and it does seem to increase the "gate".
Comments
@NewburyWanderer Thanks for the correction! I'm amazed at that. Perhaps I'm just remembering that spell towards the end of the play off season where we pulled in 9k+ V Sheffield Wednesday and 8k + V Oxford and Plymouth in the run in.
Due to the fact I live over 2 hours away by train, as well as the cost of the trains even after the discount with a Senior Railcard, food/drink and match ticket I find it difficult in the extreme to justify regular visits to Adams Park.
In my teens (pre-uni) I did most home games and a fair few away games - to be fair it was Loakes Park & Isthmian League days.
Post uni I found myself in Chelmsford with a young family & Saturday's taken up with playing hockey, so footie went out the window.
By way of compensation & so the club gets something from me I buy an annual Wanderers TV pass, am a Trust member etc.
I meant to also add my experience of other clubs (football, rugby, hockey & cricket) is that you need to
All of these will build an affection/affinity to the club & see younger attendance increase, though the best way to attract more people is to play attractive (not necessarily winning...) football rather than some of the dirge fests we have witnessed this season; on this i do think we are seeing decent signs of improvement.
It's a huge shame that the community scheme side has taken so long to regrow. I was given an old programme from 2000 and the community section in that says over 700 kids were signed up in advance for WWFC summer camps throughout Bucks and Berks. All of those received Wycombe merch and ticket offers.
Agreed on the other smaller events, these were also have been organised through the scheme so I suspect it's simply down to resource - although I know WWSET is expanding again so maybe an email of suggestions to them could spark a renewal of those days....
I started coming to AP because my daughter a kids go free ticket at her school. She got the bug and we got STs until she post interest. I blame her that I didn't. I don't sit the the Family Stand though.
We should be advertising in Aylesbury the way MK do!
I’ve said on here before and even suggested to the club directly, a big issue is where you can sit in the family stand. There’s very rarely a set of seats available centrally and on the wings in the lower tier it’s a bit naff. Why on earth they can’t consider offering the one of the two end blocks on the top tier at family stand kids prices is beyond me as it’s a better alternative option for families to choose this view, without such a big jump in cost for a child’s ticket. It was only 18 months ago that we were discussing this as the family stand was nearly always sold out.
Yep they seem like a club we could learn a lot from.
That could be a good workaround.
Avoids having the awkward conversation to long term fans that it is meant to be a family Stand and kids should be prioritised.
From a father of a 4 and 7 year old, I can tell you the 2 main factors, in order of inconvenience are:
(1) Price
My 4 year old isn't quite ready to sit out a game, but my 7 year old LOVES Wycombe. He has a season ticket (so that I can attend Tuesday night games with it, and so that I we get first refusal on away and cup games). I buy my ticket whenever we can make it. My wife works Saturdays so childcare for my 3 year old is not feasible, nor is a £30 ticket, £5/10 parking, £9 burger, drinks etc. I can't afford to do it. And when my 3 year old is old enough to come, I'm going to feel terrible. The games we go to will be very few and far between. In an ideal world, I would go EVERY week home and away when they are both old enough.
I've bought the home and away kits last season - totaling close to £150, the home kit for myself, and my 7 year old plays for the WWFC development academy, so had to get the new home kit for another £110, plus the weekly training/match fees. Which is fine. That's as much as we can support our club at this stage.
(2) Weather
My 4 year old will definitely not last a game in this weather, and the 7 year old will JUST ABOUT. Rather than have to carry round a million layers and deal with "I'm too hot", "I'm too cold" - I'd rather just give it a miss. It's such a shame because I live for football and would love NOTHING more than to take my boys every week like my Dad did when I was a kid - but the experience is just not enjoyable (from a selfish point of view).
Why don't the club trial a scheme where if you collect points, you can get discount on the next seasons' kit (for kids to start with)?
There needs to be an incentive for adults to bring their kids. A free beer, a discount for the clubshop, a free kids burger when you buy an adult one....something just to help us Dad's out. I speak for one family and that's 3 people extra that would LOVE to come every week! If there are say 200 families in my situation, that's an immediate remedy.
Overall, it’s a huge combination of issues that have been debated ad nauseum but barely touched by the club. I feel like the powers that be treat these grumbles as an unwelcome and ungrateful annoyance despite the fact that people are clearly voting with their feet. Streaming must be having a mild effect, parking and location has always been an issue, albeit AP takes no longer to leave than Reading!! Transport connections are pretty poor, the lack of presence in the town, no more Junior Blues club (?), naff all to do for kids during the long pre-match wait and barely a match announcement until 2.55pm. Etc. Oh, and the pricing…£29 for 1 adult and 1 child in the Family Stand.
As a parent of similar aged children, I can relate a lot to what @thecatwwfc has said. My 7 year-old play for Holmer Green and an ‘academy’ (glorified extra training) so supporting those endeavours takes up cash and time. The 4 year old is starting gymnastics (more money) and no doubt lots of families feel the same pinch with lots of competing priorities for their time and money.
I used to be a ST holder, have been through the thick and thin and love that I can now go with my boy and even do the odd away day. But it’s bloody expensive and not something I can sustain for 23-30 games a season so I do 6-8 instead with the odd local non-league game thrown in.
FWIW, attendees (the parents at least) of WWFC summer camps get discounted tickets for the Family Day events (the seats in the away end) and the take-up of this has been good in recent years (even though they’ve put up the admittedly piecemeal discounted ticket prices) but these events are few and far between.
In which case @williwycombe - did your son play against Downley Dynamos last weekend? Assuming U8's?
Yes bud, I think I’ve clocked who you are now too!
I bet if you plot our average attendance against our average league position, the former directly follows the latter.
Yes, things like better access, a strong economy, passing football, clean toilets, hot chips, decent burgers, half time penalties, and reasonable prices can bring the baseline up a little bit.
But what ultimately gets people through the turnstiles is winning. It's been a rough season, the attendances reflect that. But when we could win a trophy, suddenly we'll get 15k supporters paying £45 travelling all the way to Wembley rather than the end of Hillbottom Road.
That will always be the case, but surely the aim is for us to get 5-6,000 in the average times and 8-9,000 in the good times rather than what we have now
But we have a finite budget - my argument is that its better to invest each £ in the playing squad to get wins, than to refurb the toilets if you're chasing higher attendances.
Hmmm. Investing all our £££s in the playing squad to get wins. That's an interesting idea. I'm slightly surprised no other clubs have thought of that...
(And sorry. Your central point about a winning team being far more important to improving attendances than some fried onions with your hot dog is valid. Just that it is a lot easier to implement a decent amount of control over the latter* than enable the former).
*Well in theory anyway....
Yes, winning or at least the perception of success counts for a lot. Yet we've come through a period when times were never better on the playing/winning front and we're down to c.4k home fans. Bumping that up with an extra 500-1000 seems like a reasonable and achievable goal.
I would argue that whilst winning is improtant, what is more important is to be entertained and to see total committment and effort from the team in each & every match.
Attractive football goes a long way, and I think we're seeing that now.
The swagger toward the end of the last match was magnificent.
Attractive football is very subjective, I think the "modern" version of football which a lot of fans deem "attractive" (especially non playing internet xG warrior type fans) is dull as dishwater....
More frustrating losing the ball more often playing more direct but there's more chances when you take more risks with the ball
I'm only basing that on highlights as work has been keeping me away, but we look markedly more cohesive than we did a couple of months ago.
Kids also Iove a hero character, we can never match Bayo for that - I’ve met visitors to AP from Saudi, Spain, Greece all who came to just see the Beast in the flesh and follow the club because of him, plenty of FIFA kids will be the same.
"there's more chances when you take more risks with the ball"
At risk of coming across as a non-playing internet xG warrior, I don't think the data would back that up.
That's not to say that direct football can't be entertaining - it can, evidently.
Non-direct teams take risks the ball anyway, just in a different way. But there will always be debate over style.
I’m opening up a can of worms here, but many of our recent games have been very drab until the final 20 mins.
That's progress from earlier in the season where it just wasn't there at all (I still have nightmares about Exeter away). Still work to do, but things seem to be heading in the right direction.
Yep, glad he wasn't sacked
I agree with all of this
Pre-kids my reasons for not going would NEVER have included the weather or the price, but both of those impact the decision making and also how much you want in return for your experience.
I can quite easily get myself out the door, pay for a ticket, sit in uncomfortable weather conditions AND still find it enjoyable, but when you have to do all that for another person (who is not that fussed yet), just becomes a lot more difficult,
Why not try "Kids for a quid" week? About two or three times a season, when you are playing someone who will not bring a big following. Yes, It only brings £1 into the club for each child, Some of those children may become an ardent supporter in the future. My club does do this sort of promotion and it does seem to increase the "gate".